bushcraft ethics
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........
freedom is to do and say stuff that is on you mind
that is freedom
but every action has a cause
and that is for most an inconvienent truth
plus if you want to call it point a finger...it is not in my interest...nor for my ego...
and leave child health out of the discussion friend....
but I seems better to walk with the herd here and say beeeeh
in the future I will post some stuff which I make and do and indeed avoid the path of the Cotswold bushcraft camper fans and Big Self Enjoyment bushcrafters....
oh and enjoy work on my own ethics
Woah woah woah there chief... the inconvenient truth here is that you came to express an opinion and somebody had the temerity to disagree. I didn't point a finger... I simply pointed out that you wagged yours without giving your original post sufficient thought.
Mors said:
So lets do that... keep it positive and have a sensible discussion. I presume your last sentence was a frustrated stab due to having a lack of argument, but we're moving back into...
Mors said:
I completely agree with you that freedom is to say what is on your mind, and without debate, without difference, the world would be a very boring place. A good debate separates us from the animals... that and opposable thumbs.
With that said, we can't leave child health out of this really... have you any idea what the child mortality rate was just 135 years ago? And do you know what the root causes of the deaths were and why we don't have those deaths now? Short answer is its our polluted, money-grabbing capitalism thats done it... pharmaceutical companies motivated primarily by profit, industries wanting to produce more radiators and boilers... and the cruel treatment of the animals (which I disagree with, but anyway) has led to a richer, more varied diet and far fewer people going hungry. I grant you, that varied diet has brought about another problem... but that problem doesn't match up to child mortality rates of the past just yet.
I'm puzzled to why this needs to be removed from the discussion in your opinion, but I'm equally puzzled to why you don't see the irony of your original post given where it appears and what mankind had to do to allow you express your opinion in that manner.
Ethics in this case seems to depend on where you start out from, what your philosophy is to begin with.
I resent the notion that bushcrafters do not plant trees, I have planted a good number of them, as well as cut a few down.
So far as kit goes you can't win, if you express a preference for modern lighteight, then it is all the factory conditions out east and the cost to the planet in importing it, and if you like leather and eat meat it is the poor ickle animals you have caused to be slaughtered. My greatest sin I expect is driving a diesel 4 X 4. Given it's age it is causing less of a footprint each year than the manufacture of a new one, but oh I hear someone protest, what about those jobs in the motor industry you are denying by refusing to buy a new one.
Because of the way we are all globally interconnected it is impossible not to affect he lives of people the other side of the planet by what we do, and vice versa, and we certainly cannot control most of it, or avoid it by opting out of the system.
My own ethical stance is to leave nothing but footprints on the outdoors, and to garden organic, but I am sure that is not good enough for some.
I resent the notion that bushcrafters do not plant trees, I have planted a good number of them, as well as cut a few down.
So far as kit goes you can't win, if you express a preference for modern lighteight, then it is all the factory conditions out east and the cost to the planet in importing it, and if you like leather and eat meat it is the poor ickle animals you have caused to be slaughtered. My greatest sin I expect is driving a diesel 4 X 4. Given it's age it is causing less of a footprint each year than the manufacture of a new one, but oh I hear someone protest, what about those jobs in the motor industry you are denying by refusing to buy a new one.
Because of the way we are all globally interconnected it is impossible not to affect he lives of people the other side of the planet by what we do, and vice versa, and we certainly cannot control most of it, or avoid it by opting out of the system.
My own ethical stance is to leave nothing but footprints on the outdoors, and to garden organic, but I am sure that is not good enough for some.
As there seems to be no real definition of BUSHCRAFT, how in turn can there be a purer kind of bushcraft.
I understand that there is a big element of craft in there and with that, finely honed skills. I don't want something 100% plastic, cheap, pollution et al. However I have to have something affordable and anything that requires 100 manhours is so very far out of my pocket. I also think that some of the "bushcraft" lifestyles that many aspire to just do not work when extended to 100's or 1000's of folk trying to do the same. What would the bushmoot site look like if we were to reproduce it on a monthly basis. I am not talking about the "crimes" I have heard of on the shores of Lock Lomond. I am talking about 1000 people doing exactly as you did last weekend, in the same area. There are some awesome items offered for sale on this site but I would say few are actually sold at there real cost. A bowl that that takes 20 hours of work sold for 100 pound is no way to make a living in my part of the world, no matter how kind to the planet it is.
I need fixed camp sites as I don't have my own woodland, I need to buy my hammock from an importer as its cheaper than buying my own material by the yard. I buy tins from the poundshop as don't have my own goose. I don't wander around the wild wind swept trails of the world because there are none near me and I can not afford the train fare to get to them.
I do not say that snobs do not have high standards, not at all. I do not believe being a snob is that bad, wanting better. I just don't have the funds.
I understand that there is a big element of craft in there and with that, finely honed skills. I don't want something 100% plastic, cheap, pollution et al. However I have to have something affordable and anything that requires 100 manhours is so very far out of my pocket. I also think that some of the "bushcraft" lifestyles that many aspire to just do not work when extended to 100's or 1000's of folk trying to do the same. What would the bushmoot site look like if we were to reproduce it on a monthly basis. I am not talking about the "crimes" I have heard of on the shores of Lock Lomond. I am talking about 1000 people doing exactly as you did last weekend, in the same area. There are some awesome items offered for sale on this site but I would say few are actually sold at there real cost. A bowl that that takes 20 hours of work sold for 100 pound is no way to make a living in my part of the world, no matter how kind to the planet it is.
I need fixed camp sites as I don't have my own woodland, I need to buy my hammock from an importer as its cheaper than buying my own material by the yard. I buy tins from the poundshop as don't have my own goose. I don't wander around the wild wind swept trails of the world because there are none near me and I can not afford the train fare to get to them.
I do not say that snobs do not have high standards, not at all. I do not believe being a snob is that bad, wanting better. I just don't have the funds.
and remember, it takes an entire civilization just to build a toaster....
[video=youtube;5ODzO7Lz_pw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ODzO7Lz_pw[/video]
[video=youtube;5ODzO7Lz_pw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ODzO7Lz_pw[/video]
I feel somewhat the same about "Homesteading", never mind all these wizard ideas that Mother Earth News bombards me with, I just don't have the wherwithal and the space for all that on my humble 10 rod allotment. Mind you joy unconfounded a lot of old window frames came my way this week, my second greenhouse can be completed now.
That is awesome! Couldn't help but chuckle at how he got the plastic!
Yes, interesting wasn't it.
I was shown it by a friend who is a school teacher years ago. He had done a lesson with the kids about wha they would do / invent if they went back in time. Lots thought things like ipods and such like. It was only further on that they realsied they have no clue as to how to make them and all the other tech that comes before.
Weirdly I spend a silly amount of time reading up and watching how things like the steam engine came about and how power stations generate electriity, how it is delivered. Many an hour on aqueducts, how roads are constructed, architecture and even though I know this is really strange... sewers.
Its fascinating how in just a few hundred years we've reached iphones and microwave popcorn (not that I'm saying those are the pinnacle of human achievement
)All posted on an ethically sourced, hand stitched, Foxconn manufactured by virtual slaves, computer chip obviously...
….yeah, but first grow your wheat
Do you know what actually drives human invention ?
Free commerce.
Humans have a horrendous case of shiny-itis. We want stuff. If we can't grow or make stuff for ourselves we'll either trade for it, or go to war for it.
If we could remove war from the human equation it'd be a far brighter world all round.
The arms budget of the world alone would raise living, health and education standards for every single human being alive, to the level of the wealthiest 1%…..that's the level of a nurse or primary school teacher.
M
Do you know what actually drives human invention ?
Free commerce.
Humans have a horrendous case of shiny-itis. We want stuff. If we can't grow or make stuff for ourselves we'll either trade for it, or go to war for it.
If we could remove war from the human equation it'd be a far brighter world all round.
The arms budget of the world alone would raise living, health and education standards for every single human being alive, to the level of the wealthiest 1%…..that's the level of a nurse or primary school teacher.
M
Without war, or at least the threat of war, our technological development would slow dramatically. We enjoy the civilian versions of the war monger's tech every day and most people are unaware that seemingly innocent tech was designed with the purpose of killing other humans.
Look at GPS for instance. Originally conceived by a 'German-American' scientist, its a delivery system to anywhere on the globe that doesn't require direct line of sight. Think what would have happen to the UK if there had been a V3 with GPS capabilities!
Release that technology to the general public and we use it to drive onto railway tracks, into canals or the sea and to guide our toy drones back home!
Maybe Sandbender is right with that glimpse into our future.Similar threads
