bush blades

[pothunter]

Deepcmonkey

Report him for what?
So you have joined the thought police!

The perception that big knives mean trouble is rubbish, most knives used in crime are kitchen, craft or folders of one variety or another.

Would you report someone for carrying a walking stick or pole, no, but I know which I would rather have if things turn ugly.

Take a look at history, when peasants were pressed into the army during times of unrest (pre-firearms) what did they use, agricultural tools, not knives and they were rough buggers.

Pothunter.

 

[TheGreenMan]

I did believe this thread was going back on track...

There is no track, either in life, or on these forums, other than the ones we invent, or those that the Gods hurl at us (I wish I could put a famous name after this, but it was all my own work ).

...it is not deemed acceptable nor is it needed and as this forum is called BCUK

You may have unintentionally identified the source of many issues on this forum and others.

Cheers,
Paul.
PS: Just for the record, this last post was the product of four glasses of Fitou

 

[deepcmonkey]

Deepcmonkey

Report him for what?
So you have joined the thought police!

The perception that big knives mean trouble is rubbish, most knives used in crime are kitchen, craft or folders of one variety or another.

Would you report someone for carrying a walking stick or pole, no, but I know which I would rather have if things turn ugly.

Take a look at history, when peasants were pressed into the army during times of unrest (pre-firearms) what did they use, agricultural tools, not knives and they were rough buggers.

Pothunter.

Umm, I was trying to keep my posts light hearted, I think I failed to explain my self very well, sorry. I dont want to sound like the thought police.

I will put it another way then, at the momment in the UK topic of knives is very hot by the Police and general do gooders, especially with all the knife crime we have at the momment and this is not generally done with kitchen knives at all. To this end I feel the hobby/interest of Bushcraft can only be damaged by the use of large unnessisary knives, this my opinion and you dont have to agree with it. There have been a few posts tonight of members showing their new "Bush Blades" which are beautifull tools and thats what I regard them as and I think they do not look "offensive" This is my perception. No matter what way you put it if some one is brandishing a large bowie/hunter/chopper it will raise eyebrows in the UK. All it will take is one person to get done carrying said large knife and we all be branded a bunch of knife toting nutter survivalists.
Do you want that?I know I dont. So I feel in the UK it is best to err on the side of caution and carry something apporiate, which I think is something small.

 

[TheGreenMan]

Umm, I was trying to keep my posts light hearted....

There’s no such thing as 'light hearted' when it comes to blades

....I dont want to sound like the thought police....

Well you’re going a good job so far (how’s my attempt a levity going down with you right now? – get my point?).

...I will put it another way then, at the momment in the UK topic of knives is very hot by the Police and general do gooders, especially with all the knife crime we have at the momment and this is not generally done with kitchen knives at all. To this end I feel the hobby/interest of Bushcraft can only be damaged by the use of large unnessisary knives....

Pay it no heed, it’s all out of the control of the lower orders

...All it will take is one person to get done carrying said large knife and we all be branded a bunch of knife toting nutter survivalists....

Too late for that one

... So I feel in the UK it is best to err on the side of caution and carry something apporiate, which I think is something small.

Fascist

Cheers,
Paul.
PS: I know I'm going to regret this.

 

[OzaawaaMigiziNini]

I'm starting to see this as perhaps a bit of a cultural divide. In Canada and the USA, our history comes from men with big knives and axes (mountain men, riflemen, HBC, etc etc etc). Canada especially still has alot of wilderness, and often, I am inclined to use a large blade (whether it be a knife or axe), to make living easier. Maybe in the UK, where laws, and smaller wilderness, has caused a loss for such large knives (though I'm sure the Scottish dirk would be used for more than just combat).

Look at the Buffalo Skinner knife and the Jim Baker Knife. Both American masterpieces that were either carried, or models like them carried, by nearly every man in the woods at one point in time. Would they be effective at delicate carving? Maybe not, but skinning, butchering and maybe even killing of wild animals, yes. Were they effective for doing detail work on say, a neckerchief slide? No. But they could chop down poles and boughs for a quick shelter in the middle of a Rocky Mountain blizzard. Often they also carried a small knife (mostly patch knives like the Green River variety), but these were often tucked into their possible bags, and taken out only when they were sitting by the fire, preparing a meal, or whittling a craft.

The bowie style of knife was originally made for killing, but I've seen men skin quarter and butcher whole moose with relative ease with one. Those same men fumbled with such a small blade as a mora or a patch knife. Why? Because they weren't used to such a small blade, but they were masters with a bowie or other large blade.

 

[British Red]

To me I think this is a question of tools - not weapons. A 3" to 5" knife is a convenient size for belt carry and a convenient size for many of the more "precise" tasks from carving to eating to small game prep. It probably is the right size for a "first" knife for many people. I don't mean "training" knife - I mean that its a good size and a sensible blend of prtability and utility. Its not though the only solution. Having spent a lot of time "out and about" there have been many occasions when more "length" or "weight" to a knife has been useful. examples

Consider the knives you "use" most - in your kitchen. I have a number of small "paring" knives but the knife I use most in food prep is a 10" bladed razor sharp chefs knife. The extra blade length gives huge advantage in slicing meat, chopping herbs, carving roasts and many other tasks. Indeed it has, many times, been wrapped in a tea towel and come camping with me. My days of eating rubbish food are long gone - so I take proper equipment to prepare proper food.

Also think about shelter building. If building , say, a pole shelter with thatch, the best tool, bar none, is a bill hook, A big, heavy knife is much easier to gather the poles, sharpen stakes, cut thatch and all the other tasks involved than belt knife, axe or saw. A heavy bowie would be a pretty good substitute though.

I could go on, but I suspect the point is made. Some tasks lend themselves to a small knife, others are much more easily accomplished with a longer blade. No selection of tools will be ideal for every task - so you make some choices and work with them. When two of us go out (me and BB as a rule), one of us usually takes an axe and the other a large knife. We rarely need two axes but having the combination of styles of tool means that many tasks are accomplished with more ease than would otherwise be the case

There is nothing "macho" about this - its simply a logical selection of complimentary equipment rather than "duplication". Even Mr Mears needs a long knife to slice his spit roasted venison in "Wild Food" (in fact you often see him using many different knives in that series - of all sorts of styles). So lets see all knives as tools.

Red

 

[OzaawaaMigiziNini]

To me I think this is a question of tools - not weapons. A 3" to 5" knife is a convenient size for belt carry and a convenient size for many of the more "precise" tasks from carving to eating to small game prep. It probably is the right size for a "first" knife for many people. I don't mean "training" knife - I mean that its a good size and a sensible blend of prtability and utility. Its not though the only solution. Having spent a lot of time "out and about" there have been many occasions when more "length" or "weight" to a knife has been useful. examples

Consider the knives you "use" most - in your kitchen. I have a number of small "paring" knives but the knife I use most in food prep is a 10" bladed razor sharp chefs knife. The extra blade length gives huge advantage in slicing meat, chopping herbs, carving roasts and many other tasks. Indeed it has, many times, been wrapped in a tea towel and come camping with me. My days of eating rubbish food are long gone - so I take proper equipment to prepare proper food.

Also think about shelter building. If building , say, a pole shelter with thatch, the best tool, bar none, is a bill hook, A big, heavy knife is much easier to gather the poles, sharpen stakes, cut thatch and all the other tasks involved than belt knife, axe or saw. A heavy bowie would be a pretty good substitute though.

I could go on, but I suspect the point is made. Some tasks lend themselves to a small knife, others are much more easily accomplished with a longer blade. No selection of tools will be ideal for every task - so you make some choices and work with them. When two of us go out (me and BB as a rule), one of us usually takes an axe and the other a large knife. We rarely need two axes but having the combination of styles of tool means that many tasks are accomplished with more ease than would otherwise be the case

There is nothing "macho" about this - its simply a logical selection of complimentary equipment rather than "duplication". Even Mr Mears needs a long knife to slice his spit roasted venison in "Wild Food" (in fact you often see him using many different knives in that series - of all sorts of styles). So lets see all knives as tools.

Red

Here here!

I withdraw my previous statements, because British Red stated it much more eloquently.

 

[Shinken]

Couldnt agree more Red!

As for the Canada a large knife and an axe would probably be good. Look at an old civilisation from the same type of climate like sweden. They have the Leuku, axe and puuko. Not just a leuku

 

[TheGreenMan]

...I withdraw my previous statements, because British Red stated it much more eloquently.

There’s no need to withdraw anything OMN. Those last few posts from yourself and Red, delineated some intelligent arguments, that managed to cross that cultural divide you mentioned.

Best regards,
Paul.

 

[FGYT]

If I saw maybe a guy at a campsite with a Bowie I would be more inclined to report him (infact I would), then some one carrying a small blade, I really think public perception is valid here.

fairly horrifying hopefully the police would prosicute you for wasting police time (however they probably wouldnt be allowed

Perception INSNT breaking a law


Do you report every car you see they are all capable of being driven over 70mph which is illegal and cars kill 100 times more people a year than knives
NO because the cars you genrally see are legal to own and being used in a perfectly legal way
KNIVES are not illegal (bar the very few types Flick etc) and those handed in on an Amnesty could legally be bought the same day in a shop next to the police station *** they dont tell you how many knives sold in cook shops the day they say how many nasty killing things they have taken of the street do they

as you know all this anyway
I assume you mean if you saw a guy with a knife breaking a Law you would report him as would I and thats a knife of any size or an axe etc or even a bit of wood

hope i dont wind up on the same site as you my camp knife above a small un is a Large kukri (though im starting to apreciate the virtues of a Cegga Axe) and im very carful to only use it legally ie with in the Law not with in perception

this is public perception as well and you can stick it
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=495910&in_page_id=1770


Oks ::Rant off ::

 

[deepcmonkey]

Red, Very well put.


To the others that have quoted me, I am no academic and as a result of this I have oviously not gotten the point across I was trying to make. Instead of reading my posts in the entirity you have decided to quote a few lines that I have written and concentrate on that and pretty much ignore every thing else I have written.

To FGYT, I think you need to get off your high horse mate, the injured Soldiers from Iraq have nothing to do with this topic and having left the Forces my self not to long ago, I am quite angry you have decided to put it here, with some sort of intent to refering I am that sort of person.

As for reporting said individual with large knife, I did not mean ring the Police, I would however speak to the campsite manager/group leader and tell them I feel it inoprriate. Whether or not you agree with me I dont really care.

 

[FGYT]

Sorry if the Soldier thing offends it was not my intention or to suggest this is you it was an example of a public perseption forcing some people of doing something perfectly aqcceptable/legal but being stopped by some one objecting to it on some personnal grounds. so would it now be acceptable for them not to use the pool because poeple object even though its legally oks IE self regulate
Yes your not the only one with an army number
and i do unfortunatly jump on the odd horse now and again

yes i have read your posts entierly and you did not indicate anything about who you where reporting to teh police are teh main logical choice Or what circumstances etc however it would seem a little if the guy/Gal was chopping fire wood next to their camp and fire (assuming fires permmitted) that you would report to the manager if they where using a big knife but not if they where using an axe or battoning a Bushy all of which are the same in the eyes of the Law.

I take nothing away from the guy who this topic is about, where he lives in the US I am sure it is perfectly acceptable to carry large knives ie bowies, kukris' and machetes but here in the UK it is not deemed acceptable nor is it needed and as this forum is called BCUK I think the vast amount of people would agree a small woodlore clone,F1,mora etc..and a Axe will be all you really ever need plus maybe a small lock knife and even then we are on a fine line with the law.

the fine line with the law remains what ever you carry over a 3" folder if you have a good reason your oks if you dont your over the line
and an axe will make a real mess of a person
but as you have said this is your opinion and you are free to have it just dont expect others to agree
My opinion that self regulating like this only makes it worse
" They must be bad they hide them or dont use them " etc

our local scout group wont even use a Mora type/style for Knife and axe training "cos that type is used to kill people" they use a Leatherman/SAK and an Axe very sad IMO all because of perceved public opinion ' Well if the scouts think they are bad they must be ' etc or 'oh isnt it good little jonney donst use those nasty knife thingys at scouts i wouldnt let him go other wise '

see off on another horse again

ATB

Duncan

 

[deepcmonkey]

Well probably now a good thing that you mentioned about the pool incident, great news what Red is doing.

Like I have said I think I explained my self poorly, my fault I know and I apologise. I guess it is up to the individual to carry whatever tools they feel appropriate for the tasks they will be doing.

Regards to all Deepc

 

[sharp88]

Just one thing though...whatever tool one may choose, keep it sharp.

 

[deepcmonkey]

Just one thing though...whatever tool one may choose, keep it sharp.

Good point lol

 

[cariboo]

Cariboo,

thanks for sharing that link!

Just had a quick look (will dedicate more time at the WE) and this looks like a valuable resource! Do you have a photo report on how you set up your camps? I'd be very interested .
Mike

I want to see his camp set-ups as well. The author of the review is going to send some soon. Very nice of him to write the article so I'll wait patienty.

Cheers,
Scott

 

[malente]

I want to see his camp set-ups as well. The author of the review is going to send some soon. Very nice of him to write the article so I'll wait patienty.

Cheers,
Scott

Ah, excellent, cheers! Now I've got someting to look forward to.

Looking at the topic from the perspective of OzaawaaMigiziNini about the cultural divide etc. (cool nic btw, what does it mean if I may ask ) I think makes a lot of the points very clear. Good post, I agree!

It's funny, when I first came to the UK 4 years ago (and I basically knew nothing about the place), the first thing that I noticed was that there is no woodlands/ forests here!

OK, there is small patches, the Forests of Dean & New Forest etc., but no real large scale forests. In Germany, most of the middle and southern bit are full of forests (just look at Hessia at Google Earth). And Germany is nothing compared to places like Scandinavia, Canada, USA or even Russia). There's so much forest/ natural habitat there it's unbelievable!

To sum up, the wilder the place, the bigger the tools I guess... And of course taking into consideration what was said before here, aproppriate tool for appropriate job etc. And keep it sharp, of course

Damn, haven't built in any banter in this post, I get mellow

One last thought about the legal issues with knives here in the UK... I never got my head around this, and I think there is too much worry about this. Have the sharp tools in your pack and only bring them out in the woods when you need them. Then there's no problem. This is of course not the best option but seems to be the best & most sensible approach here in the UK. Only my legally uninformed opinion of course.

Hope you all had a fantastic WE!

Mike

 

[spamel]

Personally, I use a small mora length knife, be it a mora an F1 or a Bark River knife. If I need to chop something, I'll use an axe. Saying that, I recently ordered a large Mora knife, it looks like a big mora basically, and it is excellent at swift chopping cuts. I haven't put it fully through its' paces yet, but it is surprisingly good. The thing is, i wouldn't take just that knife.

My Dad has carried a bowie knife for years, a Western Bowie in fact. He said that the only problem he ever had with it was that it was so wide that carving became a problem. He couldn't get a tight radius and had problems making feather sticks. I'm not saying it is impossible to make feather sticks with one, before somebody gets uppity, but the knife didn't work for him. So, he chose a smaller knife. It does what he needs.

To say that a bowie is the be all and end all of knife requirements in the outdoors is a bit short sighted IN MY OPINION. A small utility blade is always helpful. You may be able to skin out a buffalo with a 12" Bowie, but you may find it easier to skin a squirrel with a smaller blade!

 

[spamel]

It's funny, when I first came to the UK 4 years ago (and I basically knew nothing about the place), the first thing that I noticed was that there is no woodlands/ forests here!

You're not wrong there, Germany has some awesome woodland, I spent three days on a trip in the Bergen Hohne area and never saw another person.

One last thought about the legal issues with knives here in the UK... I never got my head around this, and I think there is too much worry about this. Have the sharp tools in your pack and only bring them out in the woods when you need them. Then there's no problem. This is of course not the best option but seems to be the best & most sensible approach here in the UK. Only my legally uninformed opinion of course.

Hope you all had a fantastic WE!

Mike

When i used to go camping with my Dad, we kept our knives in our packs until we got out in the sticks. Whenever we came upon civilisation, we'd stop on the outskirts of town and put them away again. There really is no need to carry a large bowie at your side in the UK! Not until we get a zombie problem at least!

 

[OzaawaaMigiziNini]

Looking at the topic from the perspective of OzaawaaMigiziNini about the cultural divide etc. (cool nic btw, what does it mean if I may ask ) I think makes a lot of the points very clear. Good post, I agree!


Mike

It's my Ojibway name. An Indian medicine woman named Dianne Longboat gave it to me when I was 13 years of age.

Ozaawaa = Golden
Migizi = Eagle
Nini = Man

She had a big speech about the reasons for the name, but it can be summarized as "Leader for the young ones". Stuck with me ever since. Most folks can't pronounce it, so they just call me Oz .