Buffalo V Paramo

[bushtuckerman]

If this has been done before ignore me.

I know what the blurb says about both, and their technological 'differences', though they seem very similar, but i have no idea what the differences are in reality and practice. Has anyone used both of these systems? It seems to that the 'directional' aspect is asking a lot, but if it sells it sells.

cheers.
-ian

 

[addyb]

Ian, I don't think there's really much of a difference. I just googled a few webpages, and from what I can tell, Buffalo is Pertex nylon with fibre pile glued to it. Paramo is nylon as well, but as opposed to fibre pile, it has a wicking mesh lining.

Maybe I'm just being silly, but I doubt that either is more effective than the other. Look at it this way, is Gore-Tex XCR really any more breathable than Entrant or Hyvent? Probably not, but companies like to fight hand and tooth to gain a good market share!

Adam

 

[bushtuckerman]

well i guess my next question is: what is the practical difference between pile and 'directional' fleece?? it makes no sense to me as of yet.

thanks for the reply

 

[bushtuckerman]

oh and yeah, what do paramo use for the shell? they don't seem to use pertex, makes me wonder why not...food for thought anyhow.

 

[addyb]

Ian,

If Paramo isn't using "Pertex" per say, then they are quite definately using some sort of synthetic substitute. Shell jackets (unless you're talking about Ventile) always have and always will use either:

Nylon, which has massive abrasion resistance and tensile strength.

and...

Polyester, which is not as strong of a fibre, but is highly water resistant, only absorbing 10% of it's weight in moisture.

Fibre Pile is basically synthetic fur, garments made from it are fuzzy and soft. Picture blue polyester rabbit fur and you have Pile. It's a Helly Hansen invention, I have a hooded one hanging up in my closet with a broken zipper.

Directional fleece sounds to me like hydrophillic polyester, possibly a derivitive of Malden Mills Polartec. Hydrophillic meaning "water loving" as it wicks up moisture from your body, transporting it towards the outside ambient air.

Not that it makes much of a difference, both pile and fleece are hydrophillic, except that pile is much thicker, heavier, and warmer than fleece.

Basically the same fabric, marketed by two different companies competing for the market share!

Stick with what works best for you.

Adam

 

[mark a.]

One difference I noticed is that Buffalo looks quite nice, while Paramo looks incredibly ugly - their fleeces and shirts look rather like tired old flannelette.

 

[fast but dim]

i've got both, and theyre totally different!

paramo's nikwax analogy range is waterproof ,if it is treated with nikwax, and offers a slight level of insulation.
buffalo is not waterproof, but due to the materials it retains its insulation when wet.
if you want a waterproof with high breathability, go for paramo, but you need to wash and re proof it regularly.
if you want a durable warm windproof layer for active use with no maintenance, buy buffalo -you'll get wet, but if you wear nothing (or a thermal) underneath you wont mind.

I've got both, i wore the buffalo in the lakes today for 6hrs in light sleet and was damp but comfortable. If the rain had been heavier i would have worn my paramo and been 100% dry, but its a ball ache to clean.
hope that helps! both are excellent, but there are cheaper alternatives to buffalo: try here:
http://www.extremeoutdoorclothing.com/

 

[addyb]

I stand corrected.

 

[bushtuckerman]

thanks for the info guys.

 

[mark jL]

I had a while ago a westwinds paramo smock using nickwax anaology inner material with a pertex 5 outer - worked the same as my other paramo

washing is easy - just put in in the machine, pour in the stuff and turn on
but yiou do have to wash regularly and reproof occassionaly as they do lose their waterproofing as I found out in a cloudburst in the pyrenness - wet and cold ough

paramo the best waterproof I have ever used including double ventile except that it is too warm in the summer months - havent really sorted out my summer waterproof yet

cheers

mark L

 

[Tobies Sack]

Also worth mentioning that if you are into Paramo but want a made to measure garment then there is http://www.cioch-direct.co.uk/ who use the same fabric and concept as Paramo.

Paramo is a huge favourite in the walking world but beware if you run hot as I do.

 

[Grooveski]

I've had a Paramo Taiga Fleece on my back daily since getting it over a year ago. With only being the fleece it's not windproof but it takes a fair downpour before water starts getting though.
Dries real quick when it does get soaked.

Favorite thing(apart from the sheer comfort) is that the pockets are well designed for use under a harness.

The new police issue issue fleece is quite similar. Anybody know if they're about on the surplus scene?

 

[Klenchblaize]

I've had a Paramo Taiga Fleece on my back daily since getting it over a year ago. With only being the fleece it's not windproof but it takes a fair downpour before water starts getting though.
Dries real quick when it does get soaked.

Have one too in forest green and have found it does pretty much as is states on the box. Only disapointment is that Paramo want a further £45 to make & supply a matching hood! This particularly galling as the collar is equipped with male press-studs to receive such from the factory.

Cheers

 

[Rod]

I've been using Paramo for the last 7 years and have also had Buffalo clothing. I stayed with Paramo as it is - IMO - the more comfortable of the two - except in summer (too warm). I found Buffalo made me sweat my chebs off (sold my Spec. 6 to a squaddy).

If it gets really filthed I was with a non-bio tablet first then Nikwax Tecwash, then do the TX10 waterproofer - gets it all as good as new. Hope this helps

 

[bushtuckerman]

I am still pretty sold on a buffalo shirt of some kind. Does anyone know whether the special 6 shirt has any kind of protection for the chin from the cold zip? it has external baffles, whereas i notice the active shirt has been made with internal baffles.

All that worries me is that i may get cold when standing around when wet, and i don't know what i would wear over it with the occurrence of rain..gore-tex? ventile? non-breathable poncho? I presume i could wear merino wool underneath.

The reason i am not so drawn to paramo, for the moment, is the maintainance issue, and that their stuff is best suited to winter (or at least, not summer), i think i would rather wear something different during those months.

replies so far very much appreciated
ian

 

[addyb]

Ian,

I try to get away with wearing my Ventile as often as I possibly can as it's just so incredibly comfortable. (AND...wait for it....I may have another "free" anorak coming soon...hopefully)

As for you, if it's raining buckets, then I'd probably go for a WPB laminate or coated fabric. Gore-Tex, or anything that's generic. I think what it really comes down to is that if the rain is horrific, a person is going to need something 100% waterproof. But even a poncho would work well as it can easily double as a small basha.

The sad ending of this story is that when you're in the boonies, you're eventually going to get wet no matter what you do. I truly believe that the name of the game is to not get as wet as everyone else. Fool around with a bunch of different kit and figure out what works best for you.

Cheers,

Adam

 

[mark a.]

The reason i am not so drawn to paramo, for the moment, is the maintainance issue, and that their stuff is best suited to winter (or at least, not summer), i think i would rather wear something different during those months.

Isn't Buffalo miles warmer than Paramo? Especially the Special 6. So if you're going to be too hot in the Paramo, you'll melt in the Buffalo.

 

[happy camper]

All that worries me is that i may get cold when standing around when wet, and i don't know what i would wear over it with the occurrence of rain..gore-tex? ventile? non-breathable poncho? I presume i could wear merino wool underneath.

hello, i think the idea with buffalo gear is that you accept you are going to get wet, its designed to keep you warm and comfortable when it is wet and to dry out very quickly when the rain stops, i dont think you're meant to wear a waterproof layer over buffalo gear as you will be holding the moisture in as much as keeping the elements out, effectively reducing the benefits of the pile and pertex. As for getting cold standing around, i think buffalo do different designs, some more suited to low activity.

 

[addyb]

That actually makes a lot of sense, Happy. Fibre Pile is much thicker and much warmer than polarfleece, and is definately more suited to low output activities in very cold weather.

Fibre Pile itself dates back to the second world war, and was used a substitute liner in cold weather field jackets for the US Army. But it wasn't until the 1960's when Swedish lumberman brought it into the forefront of outdoor gear as they recognized how effective the fabric is at very low temperatures.

It's also quite a bit more open of a fabric than fleece, so it has very little wind resistance making it more of a middle layer fabric. While fleece isn't fantastic in the wind, it does have a little bit of snow and light rain shedding ability.

And so, if Buffalo does what it says it does, would that make it next to useless in warm weather? I think this is where the modern soft-shell jacket comes into play, the garments are similar to Buffolo I imagine, but not nearly as warm and would probably suit Ian just fine in the summer months. (Or I could be dead wrong on this one)

Adam

 

[happy camper]

And so, if Buffalo does what it says it does, would that make it next to useless in warm weather? I think this is where the modern soft-shell jacket comes into play, the garments are similar to Buffolo I imagine, but not nearly as warm and would probably suit Ian just fine in the summer months. (Or I could be dead wrong on this one)

Adam

i reckon you're probably right , the buffalo dp range, which includes the special 6 and all the other heavy pile and pertex stuff is designed primarily for winter or extreme use, with various vents to regulate your temp. when active or at rest.
heres what it says on their site about how it works..
"None of the Buffalo products are intended to be waterproof, they are proofed to repel water as stated above, but they will all keep the wearer warm even when the garment is wet, as long as the wearer keeps active or if stationary just exercise every 10 minutes to keep their body temperature from dropping. All the lined overhead garments work most efficiently when worn next to the skin. In this way the pile fabric wicks moisture away from the skin more rapidly, where it is then dispersed by the Pertex to the external surface to evaporate and keep the body dry and free from chilling.
This is the fundamental principal of the Pertex / Pile system: to keep moisture away from the skin, because in cold conditions if perspiration is not allowed to escape it is retained and rapidly cools causing chilling."