Buffalo Special 6 - astonished
- Thread starter MrEd
- Start date
Been wearing this a lot now and it’s a great item.
I have found that:
Dry + cold in the single figures I need a t-shirt (cotton t-shirt if just walking the dog!) or baselayer (poly-propylene if active) underneath for medium activity, fine on its own for high activity levels - need to throw something over it if stopping for an extended period of time though.
Warmer (early double figures) it is fine on its own up to medium activity levels but to warm for more than that.
Fine on its own in the rain with the temp in double figures
Not tried it in the rain in single figures yet with a base layer or without but I will.
Amazing in the wind, really good at blocking it
Imo it could do with some extra padding in the kidney area and when the wind is ‘right’ it can come in the side zips a bit
But Overall very happy with it, and performs well but it is not a one solution (on its own) for all situations imo. Still very pleased with it though.
I have found that:
Dry + cold in the single figures I need a t-shirt (cotton t-shirt if just walking the dog!) or baselayer (poly-propylene if active) underneath for medium activity, fine on its own for high activity levels - need to throw something over it if stopping for an extended period of time though.
Warmer (early double figures) it is fine on its own up to medium activity levels but to warm for more than that.
Fine on its own in the rain with the temp in double figures
Not tried it in the rain in single figures yet with a base layer or without but I will.
Amazing in the wind, really good at blocking it
Imo it could do with some extra padding in the kidney area and when the wind is ‘right’ it can come in the side zips a bit
But Overall very happy with it, and performs well but it is not a one solution (on its own) for all situations imo. Still very pleased with it though.
Last edited:
I had a Buffalo cycling top (probably still have it somewhere) but stopped using it as it was too warm. Even in a blizzard I had all the zips fully open trying to keep cool.
The other problem was the crotch strap, it used to catch under the saddle which would often result in some painful saddle action - snipped it off after a few rides.
Now I am much older and slower and I feel the cold more I might dig it out and start using it for canoeing and camping. It will always be too warm for cycling.
The other problem was the crotch strap, it used to catch under the saddle which would often result in some painful saddle action - snipped it off after a few rides.
Now I am much older and slower and I feel the cold more I might dig it out and start using it for canoeing and camping. It will always be too warm for cycling.
Hi,
I've been using Buffalo kit for 15-20 years and have a different view to most here. It might not be popular, but perhaps worth it for the balance.
I don't rate it and wouldn't buy it again. That's not to say I don't like the system, which works well, but you can get a far better bit of kit in the Montane shirt. It is (or was?) a very similar design but better made - arm reinforcements, better zips that don't jam, thicker pertex, softer fleece, higher collar. Essentially Montane fixed all the issued with the Buffalo shirt and turned out a better product.
I've been using Buffalo kit for 15-20 years and have a different view to most here. It might not be popular, but perhaps worth it for the balance.
I don't rate it and wouldn't buy it again. That's not to say I don't like the system, which works well, but you can get a far better bit of kit in the Montane shirt. It is (or was?) a very similar design but better made - arm reinforcements, better zips that don't jam, thicker pertex, softer fleece, higher collar. Essentially Montane fixed all the issued with the Buffalo shirt and turned out a better product.
Right been wearing this solidly for about 3 months now. Most weekends and the odd evening, and at night a couple of times. Washed it once (fell over in mud - don’t ask)
Have worn it in a variety of weathers between -2c the other night to +10c the other day. Mixed acrivities, working, dog walk, hiking, wildlife watching at a local reserve.
I have been wearing it next to my skin, or with a helly Hansen lifa polypropylene baselayer which seems to work quite well. Although I haven’t worn the lifa during strenuous activity or in heavy rain, would be interested to try a merino wool baselayer aswell.
Pros.
- fits well, comfortable to wear
- not hugely bulky or weighty tbh (it’s not ultralight though) and it packs down better than my hard shell and liner.
- loft doesn’t appear to suffer from being stuffed into a bag and scrunched up.
- warm (caveat - when moving)
- very good at wind blocking
- hood works well, nice and snug and with a deep enough peak to shield your face. Haven’t felt the need to use the removable face piece though. Have experimented with and without, and I just leave the hood in permanently now.
- not silent, but not hugely noisy either tbh
- doesn’t keep you dry in heavy or persistent rain but it keeps you warm and dries really fast when it does get wet. Doesn’t let through light rain (DWR coated?)
Cons
- hood Velcro is longer than the neck Velcro on the jacket - I have the correct matched hood size. Which leaves a couple of irritating Velcro’s areas that don’t make sense to me. I may sew a couple of loop fields of Velcro in a couple areas to hold the bit that would go across your next out of the way when the front of the jacket is open
- the side zips - they came with zipper pulls on the bit of the zip that vents your sides only, I kept pulling these and opening the vents when I was just meaning to zip up the sides. Solved by swapping the zipper pull to the bottom zipper.
- the chest pocket zip occasionally catches on the storm flap over it and binds up, which is mildly irritating.
- the hand pockets at the front let in wind when unzipped - which can make your stomach area cold. Easily solved by ziping them up in bad weather
- caught on shoulder on a bramble which has marred the pertex outer - it’s actually fairly fragile if caught like that. It hasn’t ripped, it just pulled a thread.
- when static for a reasonable period of time, with no base layer you cool down, the system requires atleast minimal exertion to keep you warm - I just threw a surplus smock over the top at a recent bushcraft ‘sit around’
- don’t go near a fire. It’s melty.
Overall pretty happy, it’s definitely not an ‘all occasions’ coat but pretty versatile. It also worked well as a mid-layer under a cotton/poly cotton surplus jacket (danish m84). I find my self reaching for it over my goretex lined shell tbh.
Hopefully it gets more consistently cold so I can test on it a bit more.
Have worn it in a variety of weathers between -2c the other night to +10c the other day. Mixed acrivities, working, dog walk, hiking, wildlife watching at a local reserve.
I have been wearing it next to my skin, or with a helly Hansen lifa polypropylene baselayer which seems to work quite well. Although I haven’t worn the lifa during strenuous activity or in heavy rain, would be interested to try a merino wool baselayer aswell.
Pros.
- fits well, comfortable to wear
- not hugely bulky or weighty tbh (it’s not ultralight though) and it packs down better than my hard shell and liner.
- loft doesn’t appear to suffer from being stuffed into a bag and scrunched up.
- warm (caveat - when moving)
- very good at wind blocking
- hood works well, nice and snug and with a deep enough peak to shield your face. Haven’t felt the need to use the removable face piece though. Have experimented with and without, and I just leave the hood in permanently now.
- not silent, but not hugely noisy either tbh
- doesn’t keep you dry in heavy or persistent rain but it keeps you warm and dries really fast when it does get wet. Doesn’t let through light rain (DWR coated?)
Cons
- hood Velcro is longer than the neck Velcro on the jacket - I have the correct matched hood size. Which leaves a couple of irritating Velcro’s areas that don’t make sense to me. I may sew a couple of loop fields of Velcro in a couple areas to hold the bit that would go across your next out of the way when the front of the jacket is open
- the side zips - they came with zipper pulls on the bit of the zip that vents your sides only, I kept pulling these and opening the vents when I was just meaning to zip up the sides. Solved by swapping the zipper pull to the bottom zipper.
- the chest pocket zip occasionally catches on the storm flap over it and binds up, which is mildly irritating.
- the hand pockets at the front let in wind when unzipped - which can make your stomach area cold. Easily solved by ziping them up in bad weather
- caught on shoulder on a bramble which has marred the pertex outer - it’s actually fairly fragile if caught like that. It hasn’t ripped, it just pulled a thread.
- when static for a reasonable period of time, with no base layer you cool down, the system requires atleast minimal exertion to keep you warm - I just threw a surplus smock over the top at a recent bushcraft ‘sit around’
- don’t go near a fire. It’s melty.
Overall pretty happy, it’s definitely not an ‘all occasions’ coat but pretty versatile. It also worked well as a mid-layer under a cotton/poly cotton surplus jacket (danish m84). I find my self reaching for it over my goretex lined shell tbh.
Hopefully it gets more consistently cold so I can test on it a bit more.
Last edited:
The velcro closure of the jacket neck doesn't work well with the hood as the hood covers the loop part on the neck that it would attach to. If you pull the hood away to close the neck of the jacket the hood then has one side attached differently to the other side. It's a little detail that annoys me.
Montane extreme jacket and smock are not directly comparable as it is a warmer design. The hood is a bit better, the sleeves have D rings for gloves if that's what you like and reinforcement patches that IMHO aren't needed in buffalo and indeed stiffer fabric that isn't as nice as the buffalo. A good product but IMHO doesn't have the edge over buffalo, neither is better than the other just sufficiently different to have their proponents and fans. Montane is better in colder weather than buffalo. Oh and the buffalo zips I've never had any issue with, aren't they ZKK zips, the market leading zip brand? Montane extreme smocks and jackets when I last checked them out seemed to have more chunky zips and they didn't work that well for me. Personal opinion and preference of course.
BTW the outer fabric in buffalo is lighter and feels less durable but having once owning the windshirt which is really just the outer layer of a buffalo pertex pile smock I have experienced how tough it really is. I once tore a small hole in one sleeve on a thorn when doing conservation work. I got home and the hole wasn't there. It just moved the weave of the fabric to make a hole but I continued to wear it and it closed up the weave. I doubt the hole would appear in a perfect pile top though.
I do agree that montane do look at improving things whereas buffalo made something advanced when it first came out but it never really developed further. Yes minor changes for new products but it never bothered improving existing products. All buffalo smocks could do with improvements. Hood as standard, better attachment velcro design, cuffs I have a issue with and a few more.
Montane extreme jacket and smock are not directly comparable as it is a warmer design. The hood is a bit better, the sleeves have D rings for gloves if that's what you like and reinforcement patches that IMHO aren't needed in buffalo and indeed stiffer fabric that isn't as nice as the buffalo. A good product but IMHO doesn't have the edge over buffalo, neither is better than the other just sufficiently different to have their proponents and fans. Montane is better in colder weather than buffalo. Oh and the buffalo zips I've never had any issue with, aren't they ZKK zips, the market leading zip brand? Montane extreme smocks and jackets when I last checked them out seemed to have more chunky zips and they didn't work that well for me. Personal opinion and preference of course.
BTW the outer fabric in buffalo is lighter and feels less durable but having once owning the windshirt which is really just the outer layer of a buffalo pertex pile smock I have experienced how tough it really is. I once tore a small hole in one sleeve on a thorn when doing conservation work. I got home and the hole wasn't there. It just moved the weave of the fabric to make a hole but I continued to wear it and it closed up the weave. I doubt the hole would appear in a perfect pile top though.
I do agree that montane do look at improving things whereas buffalo made something advanced when it first came out but it never really developed further. Yes minor changes for new products but it never bothered improving existing products. All buffalo smocks could do with improvements. Hood as standard, better attachment velcro design, cuffs I have a issue with and a few more.
Ditto re: the hood. I do think that could be tweaked, it works well when up and the zip done up and the hood closed at the neck but not really if you have the hood down and the neck zipped up. Having said that I wouldn’t be without the hood tbh
Also ditto re: the thorn, I pulled mine not that long ago and I can find where I did it, was upper right arm but it appears to have just closed up. And it pulled a loop of thread out.
There used to be a montane smock like the extreme smock but in epic outer fabric. It was a heavy duty version intended for more a Arctic use. IIRC epic was a Teflon coated cotton or ventile fabric outer plus warmer pile.
Just posting my thoughts from another thread in this one for completeness
I wear mine nearly every weekend and twice a day in the week at the moment walking the dog. It’s fine. There is no noticeable wear but it isn’t as fluffy as it was when brand new but then I have tech washed it once - don’t get me wrong it’s still fluffy, just less soft? Still comfy to wear though.
Yes the good arrangement is irritating a bit, I fold the large strip from the hood inside and it sort of stays out the way sticking to the lining. I was tempted to sew a small square of Velcro there to hold it properly.
When you have the hood strap done up across your face I fold the flap on the shirt backwards on itself to keep it out of the way, it’s. ‘90% there’ design. I also periodically catch the chest zip on the storm flap if trying to do the zip one handed. I dont understand why the hood isn’t integral (or atleast offer a version with an integral hood?)
However I still like it a lot as a garment, it’s been harder wearing that I was expecting (in terms of the outer shell not ripping etc) and it’s been brilliant on the rain, but where it has really excelled IMO is in cold biting wind, a couple of times I have been a bit mind boggled that’s the only layer I have on!
That said if lower levels of activity or sedentary it defo needs a baselayer under it - I wear a HH lifa, normal one if not so cold and merino if more cold.
So a couple of niggles, but overall I like it for the warmth and wind proofing and comfort.
I wear mine nearly every weekend and twice a day in the week at the moment walking the dog. It’s fine. There is no noticeable wear but it isn’t as fluffy as it was when brand new but then I have tech washed it once - don’t get me wrong it’s still fluffy, just less soft? Still comfy to wear though.
Yes the good arrangement is irritating a bit, I fold the large strip from the hood inside and it sort of stays out the way sticking to the lining. I was tempted to sew a small square of Velcro there to hold it properly.
When you have the hood strap done up across your face I fold the flap on the shirt backwards on itself to keep it out of the way, it’s. ‘90% there’ design. I also periodically catch the chest zip on the storm flap if trying to do the zip one handed. I dont understand why the hood isn’t integral (or atleast offer a version with an integral hood?)
However I still like it a lot as a garment, it’s been harder wearing that I was expecting (in terms of the outer shell not ripping etc) and it’s been brilliant on the rain, but where it has really excelled IMO is in cold biting wind, a couple of times I have been a bit mind boggled that’s the only layer I have on!
That said if lower levels of activity or sedentary it defo needs a baselayer under it - I wear a HH lifa, normal one if not so cold and merino if more cold.
So a couple of niggles, but overall I like it for the warmth and wind proofing and comfort.
Oh other things I did - that are very minor
The shirt has 4 zips,
- one central neck zip with one slider with a string zip pull on it.
- 2 side zips with 2 sliders so you can open it wide to slip it on and off, and also have the zip open and closed but the bottom portion staying together by sliding the other slider up and down. The zip for doing it up doesn’t have a zip pull, but the zip slider for the venting function does have a zip pull
One chest pocket with one slider and no zip pull
I found I kept inadvertently pulling down the venting zip when putting it on (which also pulls down the complete opening zip) so I swapped the zip pull from the venting zip to the closure zip
The neck zip has a zip pull on it but it often flips inside the neck when the neck zip is open as the ‘pocket’ the zip goes down into isn’t quite big enough for the slider _and_ pull a so I moved the neck zip pull to the chest pocket. The neck zip now lays flat in the pocket at the end of the zip when the neck is open.
Junior changes but for me altered the ‘usability’ to better suit me.
Also here are some photos of the hood arrangement and what Paul_B Abs I are referring to.
Large Velcro tab that closes the front of the hood around the chin area, when the hood is open it just flaps around loose and there isn’t anywhere to ‘stow’ it
View attachment 72115
Mildly awkward neck zip flap - works really well without the hood but with the hood on it either needs to go under the Velcro of the hood attachment or be folded back out the way (which then makes a small bulky bit around you chin when the hood is done up) IMO. A small strip of Velcro on the _outside_ top of the neck zip storm flap would make the hood fit much more naturally. You can see in the pictures below which bit would benefit from extra Velcro.
View attachment 72114
View attachment 72117
And finally how the whole hood does up at the front. It works and some fiddling initially gets it comfy but it feels fussy and like the hood is an afterthought
View attachment 72116
I have also found I need to have the hood attached about 3mm low on the Velcro around the neck because if you _exactly_ line up the Velcro there is a slim gap on the inside between the fluffy lining of the coat stopping and the fluffy lining of the hood starting - not an issue unless it rains and then I can feel a band of wet/cold around my neck. My solution was to align the hood lower than designed to overlap the fluffy stuff.
Amazing shirt that’s 9/10 and does what it advertises - I still can’t believe I have been out in the wet and cold walking hard and this is the only top layer I have had on, but the hood could be better designed imo and it would take much to improve it drastically.
The zip pull things I understand their thinking as once it’s on, the neck and side zips would be being constantly adjusted to vent heat (or not) and the zip pulls do make that easier (especially if wearing gloves) but for me they were in the wrong places, only took ten seconds to change them though.
The shirt has 4 zips,
- one central neck zip with one slider with a string zip pull on it.
- 2 side zips with 2 sliders so you can open it wide to slip it on and off, and also have the zip open and closed but the bottom portion staying together by sliding the other slider up and down. The zip for doing it up doesn’t have a zip pull, but the zip slider for the venting function does have a zip pull
One chest pocket with one slider and no zip pull
I found I kept inadvertently pulling down the venting zip when putting it on (which also pulls down the complete opening zip) so I swapped the zip pull from the venting zip to the closure zip
The neck zip has a zip pull on it but it often flips inside the neck when the neck zip is open as the ‘pocket’ the zip goes down into isn’t quite big enough for the slider _and_ pull a so I moved the neck zip pull to the chest pocket. The neck zip now lays flat in the pocket at the end of the zip when the neck is open.
Junior changes but for me altered the ‘usability’ to better suit me.
Also here are some photos of the hood arrangement and what Paul_B Abs I are referring to.
Large Velcro tab that closes the front of the hood around the chin area, when the hood is open it just flaps around loose and there isn’t anywhere to ‘stow’ it
View attachment 72115
Mildly awkward neck zip flap - works really well without the hood but with the hood on it either needs to go under the Velcro of the hood attachment or be folded back out the way (which then makes a small bulky bit around you chin when the hood is done up) IMO. A small strip of Velcro on the _outside_ top of the neck zip storm flap would make the hood fit much more naturally. You can see in the pictures below which bit would benefit from extra Velcro.
View attachment 72114
View attachment 72117
And finally how the whole hood does up at the front. It works and some fiddling initially gets it comfy but it feels fussy and like the hood is an afterthought
View attachment 72116
I have also found I need to have the hood attached about 3mm low on the Velcro around the neck because if you _exactly_ line up the Velcro there is a slim gap on the inside between the fluffy lining of the coat stopping and the fluffy lining of the hood starting - not an issue unless it rains and then I can feel a band of wet/cold around my neck. My solution was to align the hood lower than designed to overlap the fluffy stuff.
Amazing shirt that’s 9/10 and does what it advertises - I still can’t believe I have been out in the wet and cold walking hard and this is the only top layer I have had on, but the hood could be better designed imo and it would take much to improve it drastically.
The zip pull things I understand their thinking as once it’s on, the neck and side zips would be being constantly adjusted to vent heat (or not) and the zip pulls do make that easier (especially if wearing gloves) but for me they were in the wrong places, only took ten seconds to change them though.
My hood only goes on a few days a year. A bobble hat (merino/possum job), or bobble hat with Sealskinz cap under with a neck warmer is normally enough.
I do find the zips a bit annoying sometimes, you can put your fingers in the way of the storm flap so it keeps out or the zip track, some of the velcro tabs are long gone, but the lack of condensation compared to goretex outweighs all drawbacks. The only time I now wear goretex is if I'm outside all day and it will be hammering down the whole time, or something like strimming in the rain or weedkilling where I need to be rinseable.
Most comfortable jacket I've had.
I do find the zips a bit annoying sometimes, you can put your fingers in the way of the storm flap so it keeps out or the zip track, some of the velcro tabs are long gone, but the lack of condensation compared to goretex outweighs all drawbacks. The only time I now wear goretex is if I'm outside all day and it will be hammering down the whole time, or something like strimming in the rain or weedkilling where I need to be rinseable.
Most comfortable jacket I've had.
Oh absolutely. The pros far outweigh the minor cons to be honest. I have had my hood on for about the past month, it definitely improves the shirt when it’s raining or very windy but if it’s dry and not hugely cold then a bobble hat is fine.
I have never used the face cover and dont expect I will either!
My hood stays on. If it's cold enough to wear I find it helps keeping the back of the neck warm even when down. I wish it came with the hood already on permanently tbh. With the cold winds off the estuary and damp air or rain it's needed IMHO.
