I had a fox trot about 10 feet in front of me. Saw the bugger jump a dry stone wall through bracken along a path through some more bracke. Occasionally it jumped above the bracken then back onto another bit of path and one look back at me before it was gone with ther only sign being moving bracken. Was a darker colour than the traditional kids drawing of a fox. More of a grey colour in the fur as well. Was a fox though. Even I can't mistake that at only 10 feet. What you get for a 7am start. My can't they jump high for small critters.
british big cats - your views
- Thread starter Siberianfury
- Start date
-
Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.
Perhaps they escape roam wild for a few days and are recaptured? Maybe there exceptional instinct for stealth and camouflage hides them, for the most part, from observation; and how many people are actively looking?
Seems most sightings are accidental and the little amount of evidence of their occupation is unsurprising given their rarity. I have seen one BBC video that left me with no doubt, definitely a big cat! Of everything else I was, and am, skeptical.
Seems most sightings are accidental and the little amount of evidence of their occupation is unsurprising given their rarity. I have seen one BBC video that left me with no doubt, definitely a big cat! Of everything else I was, and am, skeptical.
my cousin and i were poaching a golf course one night and we saw "something", im not saying what it was or wasnt. all i will say is that it was black, long( around 5 feet) had a very long tail and its eyes shone back as yellow when caught in the beam of our lamp.it was around 50 yards away. our two lurchers both sort of gave chase but came back alot quicker than they ran out after we heard an almighty growl. neither animal could ever be classed as a coward as they had both taken fox individually.
Another sighting in my local weekly today.
Black,lab size,seen on a walkway near Muirkirk Ayrshire.
Two cyclists on the River Ayr path saw it, the creature turned to face them and crouched cat like and was seen to have pointed cat like ears.
Of note was its large 'swishing' tail.
Last year just a couple of miles from me a gamekeeper spotted a similar beast and a couple of months later in the same area a horse was found to have slash marks on its hindquarters.
My own experience ,probably posted already,was of headlights catching eyeshine and seeing a large black tail with a club like end going into the long grassy verge.
Black,lab size,seen on a walkway near Muirkirk Ayrshire.
Two cyclists on the River Ayr path saw it, the creature turned to face them and crouched cat like and was seen to have pointed cat like ears.
Of note was its large 'swishing' tail.
Last year just a couple of miles from me a gamekeeper spotted a similar beast and a couple of months later in the same area a horse was found to have slash marks on its hindquarters.
My own experience ,probably posted already,was of headlights catching eyeshine and seeing a large black tail with a club like end going into the long grassy verge.
Proof! where's the proof, the national out cry as mothers lock there kids in basements, and dads start roaming the park land with sacks of door knobs?ok mabey not the last bit, but if it was at all plausible then it would have made national news i'm sure of it.
Until a body is produced, examined and pronounced as being def' a puma or like then the stories will always just amount to a few paragraphs in the locals.
There's been so many of them I believe folk just shrug and think 'Aye,there probably is big cats in the countryside'.
There's been so many of them I believe folk just shrug and think 'Aye,there probably is big cats in the countryside'.
I promise now, to learn all i can about tracking big cats, so that if i win the lottery i'll dedicate at least two years to trying to find definative proof either way. or at least that'll be my excuse for tramping the whole country.
just reading what you wrote i quote "that was a hairy 20 minutes " I wonder if this is where the term hairy experience comes from ie hairs on back of neck stand up, never really thought about it before. Ive had the experience a couple of times in the uk but can't explain why both times on me own and away from built up areas.
I have never seen a large cat in the UK myself, but my sisters ex used to take hundereds of photos of them in the forest of dean area. Apparently after the dangerous animals act of 1974, you had to get a license to own one. As most people did not have the money or the time o get a license, they realeased them.
Although one of my Kittens is huge for its age, so I guess I can say I have seen a 'big cat'!
The closest Ihavegot to what may have been a large cat - I do not know - was on an excercise I went on as a cadet. I saw something reasonably large run across a field, and then run back. I spent a few seconds discussign with my mate whether we should report it (we were on stag). It was too big to be a fox or feral kitty, but did not run / did not have the build of a deer.
Although one of my Kittens is huge for its age, so I guess I can say I have seen a 'big cat'!
The closest Ihavegot to what may have been a large cat - I do not know - was on an excercise I went on as a cadet. I saw something reasonably large run across a field, and then run back. I spent a few seconds discussign with my mate whether we should report it (we were on stag). It was too big to be a fox or feral kitty, but did not run / did not have the build of a deer.
Last edited:
A skull was found in 2005 and was identified as a pumas. That skull is in the British Museum now.
Captures and remains
In July 2005 a farmer in North Devon discovered a large cat's skull, which has since been identified as a puma's. It was apparently taken for scientific analysis, though no results have ever been released. It follows many reports of cats in the area (Beast of Exmoor), and even a report of a farmer shooting and later burying a puma.
A Eurasian lynx was shot in summer 1991 near Norwich, Norfolk. It had killed around 15 sheep within two weeks. The story was only reported in 2003, and the lynx is apparently now in the possession (as taxidermy) of a collector in Suffolk. For many years this incident was considered to have been a hoax, particularly by the hunting community, But in March 2006 a police report confirmed that the case was true. It was probably an escapee from a facility in the area that bred animals including Eurasian lynxes.
There was a full report an the British Big Cats site, but it has been down for a while now. There was also a leopard skull found, but that was later proven to be a hoax as tit was already cleaned prior to burial and the minerals did not tally with teh soild around the area. The puma skull has been confirmed as having been naturally buried in the area it was found.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/content/articles/2006/03/16/big_cats_feature.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4833450.stm
There is a notorious animal park (until new ownership cleared it up) in the south west that has had numerous escapees in the past. Just last year it had a jaguar and wolf escape, the wolf wondered five miles from the park before being caught on wasteland. So you can see why there could be animals out there. As a holder of a DWA licence, I can go and buy any vennomous snake I wish without registering individuals, the same is true of other species including cats, and they do breed very well in captivity. You must remember that there are still private owners of these creatures in the UK. Both legal and illegal. You'd be surprised at the dangerous species of snake I've recaptured in the UK that had escaped from non licenced keepers. Although harder to keep, there are undoubtedly non licenced cats, wolves and other animals out there. There was a woman who had a pure wolf not too far away from me which she bred with German Shepherds in the early nineties.
Last edited:
Look guys if this all turns out to be true, you can expect to see me in my new suit at the next Moot.
How is a buried skull any kind of evidence of big cats in this country? Not saying it wasn't buried where it was buried but how did it get there? If there is no body with it, it hasn't been found in a natural position for death and it hasn't been buried by natural methods (land slide or whatever) then who's to say it wasn't just a big cat skul that was buried by someone? Evidence is something that has no other explanation such as a big cat caught dead or alive in the area it is supposed to be in. Even that could be a release. IMHO I will only believe in big cats living and breeding in this country when someone catches or films a breeding big cat. One that has kittens for example. It is always possible to have escapees particularly illegally owned ones. Of course they are unlikely to avoid observation as not truly wild in that they were likely to have been captive from cub stage I'd imagine. That would surely make them easier to observe and be captured.
It is one thing to want to believe and another for it to be true. I want to believe in the Loch Ness Monster and the sasquatch and the yeti and the .... Perhaps they are more likely!
BTW correct me if I'm wrong but the website for the "British Big Cats" is probably set up by someone or some people who probably already believe in it. Whether the cats are present or not I'd question if any information on the site is completely independant and whether it truly counts as evidence. I don't know what the true situation is but IMHO it is highly unlikely. Kind of like finding an extinct animal living in this country on the land (as opposed to the voluminous seas) in a country that, lets be honest about this, is man-made in all areas. Heck, according to a report I read the OS worked out that the wildest land,i.e. the spot which is the furthest away from signs of human influence, is in Scotland and is only 7 miles from signs of humans. We are just not the sort of country to have big cats un-discovered. If you said Germany or France or Spain had big cats I'd say perhaps but here? Some stealthy cats not to be found. I don't count the half seen or half felt examples or growls heard from undergrowth in the dark which sent your hairs standing up. Of course like religion it is your right to believe it if you so choose.
As far as how many people are actively looking for big cats? That is irrelevant as a true chance encounter would eventually happen if there are breeding populations. Also in one of the areas with a lot of reports (exmoor IIRC) there was a group who spent their eveings looking. IIRC there was a documentary about one guy who was so obsessed after "seeing" one. He had all the gear you could imagine would be useful for finding it or true, undisputable evidence of it. He had the skills and knowledge to find it but he never did find so much as a big cat's feaces. Although the film makers were totally supportive and were trying to make him come across as heroically chasing the big cat (for his community's safety or whatever) it only came across that he was a deluded fool. He wasn't a fool but rather intelligent and very capable. He just believed in it depsite evidence. I've "seen" things too but I realised they were not true. Your mind is amazing but it does get things wrong. You see with your mind, your eyes just focus and send light information to your brain. The brain interprets it into what you see, is your brain always right in other things? Your brain interprets inner ear information on balance and uses it to keep you upright, have you never fallen down? Most likely when drunk around the camp fire I'd imagine, but the brain failed with reason. Who's to say half seen things aren't a failure too of the brain's interpretation of light impulses? I'm just saying the visual evidence is not 100% with humans.
It is one thing to want to believe and another for it to be true. I want to believe in the Loch Ness Monster and the sasquatch and the yeti and the .... Perhaps they are more likely!
BTW correct me if I'm wrong but the website for the "British Big Cats" is probably set up by someone or some people who probably already believe in it. Whether the cats are present or not I'd question if any information on the site is completely independant and whether it truly counts as evidence. I don't know what the true situation is but IMHO it is highly unlikely. Kind of like finding an extinct animal living in this country on the land (as opposed to the voluminous seas) in a country that, lets be honest about this, is man-made in all areas. Heck, according to a report I read the OS worked out that the wildest land,i.e. the spot which is the furthest away from signs of human influence, is in Scotland and is only 7 miles from signs of humans. We are just not the sort of country to have big cats un-discovered. If you said Germany or France or Spain had big cats I'd say perhaps but here? Some stealthy cats not to be found. I don't count the half seen or half felt examples or growls heard from undergrowth in the dark which sent your hairs standing up. Of course like religion it is your right to believe it if you so choose.
As far as how many people are actively looking for big cats? That is irrelevant as a true chance encounter would eventually happen if there are breeding populations. Also in one of the areas with a lot of reports (exmoor IIRC) there was a group who spent their eveings looking. IIRC there was a documentary about one guy who was so obsessed after "seeing" one. He had all the gear you could imagine would be useful for finding it or true, undisputable evidence of it. He had the skills and knowledge to find it but he never did find so much as a big cat's feaces. Although the film makers were totally supportive and were trying to make him come across as heroically chasing the big cat (for his community's safety or whatever) it only came across that he was a deluded fool. He wasn't a fool but rather intelligent and very capable. He just believed in it depsite evidence. I've "seen" things too but I realised they were not true. Your mind is amazing but it does get things wrong. You see with your mind, your eyes just focus and send light information to your brain. The brain interprets it into what you see, is your brain always right in other things? Your brain interprets inner ear information on balance and uses it to keep you upright, have you never fallen down? Most likely when drunk around the camp fire I'd imagine, but the brain failed with reason. Who's to say half seen things aren't a failure too of the brain's interpretation of light impulses? I'm just saying the visual evidence is not 100% with humans.
PS - I think if they do prove big cats then perhaps we should have the right to bear arms in public as well for our own protection of course.
I don't think they will ever prove it. Whatever was released in the 70s/80s is long since dead. I don't think they bred in the wild unless a pair or more were released together. Even if that possibilty actually happened, it would be the end of the line and they are dead too.
I terms of evidence re the skull. It is quite easy to tell between a naturally weathered skull and one that has been purchased and buried for faking. The leopard one that was dug up was soon found to have been skinned, dried and then buried some years after. Forensics is a very detailed and accurate science, so if it was examined in any detail by pros in this field, they could tell definitively. But remember, this could also have been a pet that died and was buried some years back, so not a certainty by any means.
The only thing that allows me to consider the possibility of cats out there now, are RMs and Ian Maxwells statements. It's a bold thing for two professionals in the field to make sweeping statements like that. Especially RM who is very careful what he says in public. Even then though, that is going back at least 8 years.
When being tracked by a puma, you will not see the animal and only those most in touch with their surroundings will pick up the clues (so subtle they are often described as a 'sixth sense') that they are being hunted. Pumas have attacked hikers and horse riders in the North American continent, often fatally, which is my source reference.
It would be unwise to assume the species (or similar) was absent from this wee Island of ours.
It would be unwise to assume the species (or similar) was absent from this wee Island of ours.
My sister once asked me how I can spot birds and animals in a woodland, as she found it impossible to see any signs of life whatsoever. My answer was that if you go crashing through the undergrowth throwing a stick to your dog, or even talking to someone, then you will see little. If you go warily though or sit quietly, you will hear birdcalls and movements in the trees and might even be lucky enough to have something like a weasel come to investigate you, or happen upon an otherwise engaged badger.
A mate and I once had the privilege of being peed on by a red squirrel for sitting under its tree!
Something kept pace with me one night when passing through the Etive woodlands. On one occasion I turned with my head-torch and saw yellow eyes. I have no idea what it was and, to be honest, at the time didn't really want to find out. My response was to turn back towards it and make a lot of noise, thumping a stick on the trees. My next priority was to get myself out of the woods and get a fire going.
I've also had the delight of being followed for an entire day on the Cairngorm/MacDhui plateau by a solitary reindeer who just seemed happy with the company. It didn't want anything from me and wasn't interested in any goodies I offered. But wouldn't it have been an entirely different matter had this happened in darkness and I couldn't identify my companion?
Fear of the unknown or an unfamiliar environment has strange effects on us, especially if the senses we most often rely on are taken away.
It's undeniable that those who go off into the mountains and other remote environments, particularly when alone, experience odd things. Sometimes there is an explanation... like when a mate of mine caught a glimpse of a strange, featureless white face looking in through a bothy window. It turned out an hour later to be a white garron, a type of horse used for bringing stags down of the hill, but I can easily picture him sitting with his back to the wall staring at the window and listening for noises, fully in the knowledge that the nearest habitation was 9 miles away. I've been in similar circumstances. I've lain in a tent in the middle of nowhere after imagining a human whispering, knowing full well it's the stream a hundred yards away!
It's in circumstances where we can find no rational explanation that cause us to look for alternative reasons for what we've seen or heard or felt; the bumps and crashes at night in a bothy when you know there's no-one there; seeing minute lights flashing away deep down in an inaccessible ravine on a cold rainy night; the short hairs on the back of your neck standing on end for no apparent reason or the sense that you are not welcome here!
I spent quite a disturbing and rather noisy night in one notorious Scottish bothy which puzzled me for more than a decade. I got my explanation a few years ago when an earth-tremor was recorded on Loch Etive, the epicentre being in the immediate vicinity of the bothy!
http://forargyll.com/2009/04/loch-etive-earthquakes-provoke-concern-for-inveraray/
If you go out into the Scottish hills, and many other areas on the planet, often enough you will encounter odd phenomena. How you deal with this is up to the individual, and I know a few fairly hard nosed people who wouldn't entertain the idea of stravaiging off alone into the hills for a week. Some are simply more careful than I, some need companionship but there are others who have had some pretty bewildering experiences and don't care to repeat them!
Not everyone has an interest in the countryside common amongst those using this forum and I readily accept that most cat sightings are probably by someone walking their dog on a path. There are fake photos doing the rounds and there are those who would wish to profit in some way.
One long-term, seemingly dedicated Nessie Watcher, in his frustration, lost the plot completely and published photos of UFO's, which were quickly identified as frauds and roundly dismissed and all of the astute historical research he had done was binned with him. That man disappointed and embarrassed quite a lot of people who had taken him seriously.
The above, however, doesn't explain the farmers, forestry workers, nature wardens and others who have made claims of cat sightings!
Cheers.
A mate and I once had the privilege of being peed on by a red squirrel for sitting under its tree!
Something kept pace with me one night when passing through the Etive woodlands. On one occasion I turned with my head-torch and saw yellow eyes. I have no idea what it was and, to be honest, at the time didn't really want to find out. My response was to turn back towards it and make a lot of noise, thumping a stick on the trees. My next priority was to get myself out of the woods and get a fire going.
I've also had the delight of being followed for an entire day on the Cairngorm/MacDhui plateau by a solitary reindeer who just seemed happy with the company. It didn't want anything from me and wasn't interested in any goodies I offered. But wouldn't it have been an entirely different matter had this happened in darkness and I couldn't identify my companion?
Fear of the unknown or an unfamiliar environment has strange effects on us, especially if the senses we most often rely on are taken away.
It's undeniable that those who go off into the mountains and other remote environments, particularly when alone, experience odd things. Sometimes there is an explanation... like when a mate of mine caught a glimpse of a strange, featureless white face looking in through a bothy window. It turned out an hour later to be a white garron, a type of horse used for bringing stags down of the hill, but I can easily picture him sitting with his back to the wall staring at the window and listening for noises, fully in the knowledge that the nearest habitation was 9 miles away. I've been in similar circumstances. I've lain in a tent in the middle of nowhere after imagining a human whispering, knowing full well it's the stream a hundred yards away!
It's in circumstances where we can find no rational explanation that cause us to look for alternative reasons for what we've seen or heard or felt; the bumps and crashes at night in a bothy when you know there's no-one there; seeing minute lights flashing away deep down in an inaccessible ravine on a cold rainy night; the short hairs on the back of your neck standing on end for no apparent reason or the sense that you are not welcome here!
I spent quite a disturbing and rather noisy night in one notorious Scottish bothy which puzzled me for more than a decade. I got my explanation a few years ago when an earth-tremor was recorded on Loch Etive, the epicentre being in the immediate vicinity of the bothy!
http://forargyll.com/2009/04/loch-etive-earthquakes-provoke-concern-for-inveraray/
If you go out into the Scottish hills, and many other areas on the planet, often enough you will encounter odd phenomena. How you deal with this is up to the individual, and I know a few fairly hard nosed people who wouldn't entertain the idea of stravaiging off alone into the hills for a week. Some are simply more careful than I, some need companionship but there are others who have had some pretty bewildering experiences and don't care to repeat them!
Not everyone has an interest in the countryside common amongst those using this forum and I readily accept that most cat sightings are probably by someone walking their dog on a path. There are fake photos doing the rounds and there are those who would wish to profit in some way.
One long-term, seemingly dedicated Nessie Watcher, in his frustration, lost the plot completely and published photos of UFO's, which were quickly identified as frauds and roundly dismissed and all of the astute historical research he had done was binned with him. That man disappointed and embarrassed quite a lot of people who had taken him seriously.
The above, however, doesn't explain the farmers, forestry workers, nature wardens and others who have made claims of cat sightings!
Cheers.
Last edited:
