bit of rental advice in Scotland

[greensurfingbear]

cutting a long story short.....

first the back ground.

Wife and I gave the obligatory two months notice to terminate a 6 month rental contract as we had found a house to purchase. the agreed moving out date was 11th Jan. Annoyingly the sale fell through at the last minute as vendor withdrew before we finalised everything. We ended up in a bit of a pickle as our rental move out day was due. (bit of advice don't try and move house over christmas and new year!)

Explained situation to estate agent early in the new year (about the 8th Jan) they spoke with landlord who said we could stay another 3 months..... heres where it gets tricky, the landlord was trying to sell the house. If he sold it we'd only get a month. not having any other options we said ok.

Feeling the pressure to find a new house to buy, as the landlord was having viewings, even a second viewing, we threw ourselves into looking at as many places to buy as possible.....luckily we've managed to make an offer on another house. All well and good. We inform the rental estate agent of the happy news, and giving 2 months notice with us liking to leave at the end of March, they are saying we are bound to a 3 month contract which ends at the end of April.

this is where I need the advice,

We aren't under the original 6 month contract as we gave notice and the contract ended 11 Jan, we haven't signed anything else. The estate agent only brought the new contract over on the 23 Jan. (12 days after the 6 month contract ended), its a fixed term contract which we state we cant leave until the end of April. they are claiming we sign and accept the fixed three months or we are subject to tacit relocation on the original 6 month contract meaning we are subject to another 6 month contract.

We don't really want to stay to the end of the April as its just a waste of months money renting when we could be paying our mortgage!

Any legal eagles out there able to offer advice?

cheers in advance.

 

[Toddy]

Do you have the landlord's one month thing in writing ? If you do contact the letting agent again and ask them to review.
I am told that they are generally on the side of the landlord, and like to take the easy option, so they might not even have really looked at the situation again but have just given a pro forma reply. It has to be worth a few minutes writing it all out and asking them to take another look.

Otherwise, if you did sign a three month contract, and it had the usual two month let out thing, and you haven't signed a six month one, then I don't see how they can change that mid stream. If you haven't agreed in writing to a six month one, you don't have six month one.

Your lawyer who is handling your house purchase ought to be able to have a look at this and give and informed opinion, I'd have thought.

Best of luck with it
Toddy....whose son is in something of a similar situation just now.....it's not Clyde Property is it ?

 

[greensurfingbear]

Not signed anything other than the original 6 month contract which we terminated with the appropriate 2 month notice.

We haven't had anything in writing since the original contract ended although we are still in the house, albeit with nearly everything packed ready to move.

As there was a second viewing we worried that the lack of contract initially was due to landlord selling the house, hence us rushing around like house buying crazy people, We viewed 8 properties in a week!

What's a Clyde property? Location or company?



Orric

 

[Toddy]

It's a letting agency, and they're very good, but kind of v.v.much on the landlord's side.

I pretty sure you need to put it into writing, and then actually phone them and tell them you have written everything out and have posted it to them for prompt review. That way they have no excuse to just file it into a pile on someone's desk.
Tell them you only hassled to find a new house because of all the viewings and the knowledge that you had to be out in a month if the house sold. Not your fault it didn't, but no reason you should have to pay for an empty let either.....especially if you haven't signed for it, even if you were grateful for the leeway in a pinch.

I also think that you need a short phone call with the lawyer who is doing your purchase, and check just where you stand. Thing is though, if she writes, then that's a 'Lawyer's Letter', and they'll charge you a fee for doing that.

We bought this house and paid cash for it. We still ended up paying an extra two months rent because the assorted lawyers on both sides have a kind of set time that they take to check everything out You could still end up paying the full three months, which will gall no end I mind being furious at the time because those extra two months would have paid all our legal fees in full

I think your best bet is the written approach to the letting agency, tbh. and see if they can be reasonable when the explanation is there in front of them in black and white. Thing is though, they'll only get commission if the house is let; when it sells that ends their income from the property. It's not in their interests to let you out of the 'contract', even if it is a pseudo one, early.
If you know the owner, and he/she might be more reasonable but if they've given carte blanche to the letting agency, you're stuck with it

Legally I think by the sounds of it you're in the right, but if you want your deposit back in a timely fashion and not held to ransom, you might not have much choice.

Not being of much help I'm afraid I really hope that things do work out well for you though and your flitting is without any hinderance.

atb,
M

 

[brambles]

This is very much not my field as I only do criminal work -but this might give you some information in the meantime

http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_rights/renting_from_a_private_landlord/short_assured_tenancies#

but please speak to the solicitor who is dealing with your purchase as they are your best source of correct information

Thing is though, if she writes, then that's a 'Lawyer's Letter', and they'll charge you a fee for doing that.

Ypu know , it's an odd thing but when I went into Tesco and filled a basket today they insisted I pay for it all before I left! The cheek of it!

 

[Toddy]

That wasn't a slight at the lawyers Brambles, just a heads up that it will be an extra fee if they have to actually arrange to have a letter sent to the Factor.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[xylaria]

I know nothing of scottish rental law.

It doesnt sound a "right" thing for a letting agent to ask you to pay for month when you have moved out. Reading the advice that bramble posted from shelter by the sounds of it should of gone to one month rolling contract. A right thing and a lawful thing unfortunatly arent the same. Ask advice from shelter, they really know their stuff. They deal with some really shady stuff from landlords.

Personally what I would do is simply not pay them the months rent. They will probably keep your damage deposit anyway [bond?]. I would never pay them even under threat of court order. In the rest of the uk most debts end up in the hands of private baliffs which have no rights of entry to your house, so therefore the debt can never be recovered if you dont let them in your house. This course of action isnt for everyone, you can live with ever needing a credit rating. It is not unlawful to completly ignore civil debts.

 

[Toddy]

Ehm, you've never met a Sheriff's Officer, have you ?

Poinding is alive and well when all other recourses, called 'diligence', have failed.

http://www.debtscotland.com/useful information.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poinding

cheers,
M

 

[Andy W]

I work in Housing for a local authority, type 2 advisor etc. Speak with Shelter in the first instance, also look at your tenancy, I would think it was a short assured tenancy and there is probably a clause which states the tenancy is for a period of 6 months and would then roll on on a month to month basis (need to check this).

You need to get some good advice as you dont want landlord or agent going to the small claims court and screwing with your credit rating nor do you want to have your landlord walk all over you when you cannot be held to to a iffy tenancy agreement. I have seen a lot of tenancy agrreements which have not been set up correctly even by professiolnals who should know better. My advice is go to Shelter web site in first place and CAB thereafter maked sure you have your tenancy agreement to hand and a AT5 which should have been issued to you prior to the lease being signed.

 

[stonepark]

Need to read your original contract re tacit but if notice. Was served and accepted, tacit fails and you have a new 'assured' tenancy if you so wish, mention that to the agent and watch for the nervous twitch.

sent from my android

 

[woodstock]

Ehm, you've never met a Sheriff's Officer, have you ?

Poinding is alive and well when all other recourses, called 'diligence', have failed.

http://www.debtscotland.com/useful information.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poinding

cheers,
M

No but I would love to, I have dealt with fraudulent bank loans, credit cards and beat them hands down playing them at their own game and playing by their rules, for filling a tax form in late the HMRC said that I owed them i think it started at £70 it is now £1600 and do you know what, they did handed it to a DCA one of the best im told, result not one single penny has been payed, its all a con.

 

[Toddy]

This isn't a case of fraud though. It's a monthly rental, and it needs cleared up exactly what he's agreed to and what they are permitted to charge.

What is a DCA ? Look up poinding; it means they don't mind if it's cash or goods. If it's yours then they'll take it for their valuation. If you give stuff away, they will recover and still give it their valuation.

Most folks, especially those who intend to live in the house really don't want any hassle. Most folks want a decent credit record so that they can use normal bank cards, normal mortgages, normal insurance policies.

I know that doesn't suit everybody, but it does suit a great many people.

I have a lot of friends who live on a shoestring in the back of a van, or in a hut, in the oddest of places, claiming they're free, that they don't pay society or play by it's rules Fair enough but see when the excrement hits the spinning thing ? they struggle.
I don't want to live like that. Most folks just want a quiet life instead of raging agin the whatever.

M

 

[greensurfingbear]

thanks for the advice folks. Decided that we cant be a:twak:ed with the hassle, and certainly not worth a black mark on our credit so came to an arrangement that the 3 month period is fixed term with us official leaving on 11th april. Due to the home buyer report being delayed it means that we have been able to move the hand over date for our new house back to late March so while not ideal it means we are only have 11 days over lap between getting keys for new place and handing in keys for rental place.

Man I cant wait to get my own place again. Rented the last year and it has vexed me greatly. Sucks not having space for a workshop. I've not used my lathe in over a year and I've been doing my leather working on the dining table! New place is 4 bedroom, has a decent sized garden which backs onto the local burn (well above flood levels) and doesn't require a huge amount of work internally. Not the lone housestead with land to call my own out in the sticks, but its in a nice place with good access to the hills, and about 30mins drive from work for me and 15mins walk from work for my missus. oh and most importantly we're getting it 15k under the valuation

Only wish there was more woodland.....cant believe how much I miss the woods. Its all heather moorland here lots of plantations, and lots of very small patches of woodland but no decent sized woods...... cant complain to much, plenty of hill walking, kayaking and shooting to get on with

 

[Toddy]

Glad it's been resolved in a reasonable way 11 days just gives you time to flit and make sure things are not crammed in in a rush or left unfinished behind you.

Funny how fast you can grow woods though especially if you plant pioneer species around. Happy to supply innumerable seeds (or seedlings come early Summer) for silver birch, ash, oak, sycamore and willow.
If I don't weed them out I'd not get out the door in a year or two.
We live next to a burn too; it's amazing the amount of wildlife that that wet corridor attracts

cheers,
M

 

[greensurfingbear]

the garden boundary is the burn which is awesome......been told by a local that salmon frequent it......think i might just have to practise making fish traps.....

there is a mature tree on the edge of the burn which is within our boundary and looks to be in good health...don't remember what kind of tree it was, but would look ace with a tree house on it1 ! there is also some a small hawthorn and crab apple which looked far enough apart for a hammock.....not that Im making plans or anything.....oh and have dibs on the garage as a work shop....although missus has already decided which will be her craft room lol.