Rabbits are vermin and aren't under threat of extinction. I've certainly never expressed an ounce of joy in killing one either.
Bear and the Bat Incident
- Thread starter JonathanD
- Start date
Rabbits are vermin and aren't under threat of extinction. I've certainly never expressed an ounce of joy in killing one either.
But I bet your happy when you manage to catch one? I would be its natural.
Also the bats are alao not under threat of extinction from what the first post said and is perfectly legal.
I probably wouldn't use the word 'happy' more like pleased that I'm accomplishing the task I set out to do.
Sorry, what I was getting at was if someone tried to copy that act over here then there's plenty of bats under threat.
I agree with you there. I would still stand by my statement its down to parents to show kids the difference. Adults are wise enough to judge.
Same can be applied to all sorts, like fire starting. If you let a kids imagination run wild without your guidance he will start a bow drill under his bed.
Same can be applied to all sorts, like fire starting. If you let a kids imagination run wild without your guidance he will start a bow drill under his bed.
Bushwacker - don't you think that BG was out to catch the bats so why can't he be pleased with getting that task done like you would with a rat or a rabbit for the pot?
Sorry to triple post but can I just thank you guys on this forum for being so polite in a contentious discussion? I have had discussions on other outdoor activity sites that have just ended up with people putting you down for your opinions and not allowing you to have an opinion if it doesn't match theirs. I have expressed my opinions on a tgopic I have read about and do know a lot about on another site and pretty much got made to feel a fool because every attempt to state my case so the guy would understand where I was coming from ended up with every word and phrase being scrutinized to hit back at me with. The guy was a real pedant and was out to make me seem like an idiot just because I expressed an opinion in a way he didn't agree with. He even admitted that he didn't have a view either way but because I did have an opinion he went after me. Not the first time on that site but never happens onthis site. I think that is to your credit. It is the people on a forum that make it enjoyable experience. It is respectful to others IMHO and once again thanks.
Sorry about going off topic.
Sorry about going off topic.
"if he'd hit it really hard would he have been able to shout deuce?", SWMBO, bless her
cheers
stuart
cheers
stuart
It's difficult in threads like this as some opinions vary widely on the subject matter. Just looking at the difference in Geds post and yours Paul, you can see how much the variance is. I'm one of the people that sees the difference between Bear the person and Bear the TV presenter, and as I've mentioned, I met him and enjoyed his company on a couple of occasions. I've watched all of his programmes and it was only this one clip that lowered my opinion of him as a person, not due to scripts he was made to repeat or scenario he was put into, but solely due to his actions and how he presented himself for those few minutes. I'm far from alone in this regard, and it does (as we've seen here) open up the whole debate of where do you draw the line when it comes to entertainment shows and killing animals as part of that show. I hold the line that he clearly overstepped the mark on this occasion, many people would say that he overstepped the mark way way before that. But it is a hot subject that is for sure.
This whole thread started off this morning when I was doing an adder mitigation survey with a fellow herpetologist and bat worker in Dorset. We actually found an adder with a missing head and I quipped that BG had been here. That then launched my colleague (we'll call him Bob) into a tirade about local kids taking tennis rackets out down his local recreation ground, to swat at the bats as they flew along a low hedgrow adjacent to the field. Bob had reported them and confronted them rather than ringing the police as their average age was only ten. He then told me about the BG reference and sent me the BCT article as a matter of interest. He told me of one other instance of this behaviour. Again, kids were involved but they were using landing nets and had actually attempted to cook one over a fire.
Unfortunately, not all kids have the ability to make the correct decisions due to their upbringing, or lack of it. Other kids are influenced by these things whatever their upbringing, and as parents we can't censor what they watch constantly when a programme is aired, for that we rely on the programme makers. With BG having the role of lead scout and championing the protection of animals, I wouldn't expect to see that in his programmes. No problem with his method or that he killed them, just the attiitude he had whilst he was doing it.
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Jon - The difference is on here is that everyone is polite and shows a degre of respect to others. Contentious issues do tend to breed opposing sides and discussions can get heated but civility in that is what makes this a more friendly forum. Of course humour is often used on here to good effect but that is all down to the friendly environment.
On this topic I have varied from "it is terrible" to the "I don't think it was too bad" view after seeing it. In that location to catch bats I'm sure a net across the entrance would be better but you wouldn't make a net is a survival situation. Also a net would mean it takes a while to dispatch the bats caught (you would catch a few too). The hand net thing is a better way and you get a smaller quantity as you really need. The attitude he had towards it was of someone having fun. Right or worng it is opinion on that.
On this topic I have varied from "it is terrible" to the "I don't think it was too bad" view after seeing it. In that location to catch bats I'm sure a net across the entrance would be better but you wouldn't make a net is a survival situation. Also a net would mean it takes a while to dispatch the bats caught (you would catch a few too). The hand net thing is a better way and you get a smaller quantity as you really need. The attitude he had towards it was of someone having fun. Right or worng it is opinion on that.
I don't know. You can try. I don't count myself in either camp so I'll try to be dispassionate about a subject (animal welfare) that I am, in fact, passionate about.
You make some good points.
Not much that I can see. I personally don't fish, although I eat fish. I shoot, but not for fun -- in fact I take no pleasure in it at all, and I would rather not need to do it. I eat meat and I wear and otherwise use leather, and I know that animals die to provide them. I am unhappy about that, and if there were realistic alternatives for me I'd choose them, but there aren't. About the best I can do is try to make sure that the products I buy are ethically sourced. I say 'try' because I know it's a tall order. I buy free range eggs. When I bought new wooden windows and doors for my house I insisted on locally grown timber instead of the imported timber which the architect had specified. Locally grown cost about five grand more than imported, but I could be sure it wasn't illegally cut. I'm serious about it. The bills are my credentials.
I have no problems at all with what the guy eats. We all have to eat. I know of a sailor who developed a real passion for eyeballs when he was short of water after things went wrong on a sailing trip. Yes, I agree that it is important to foster independent, reasoning and critical thinking in our offspring (if we have any
) I also think they should be taught what it takes to make an ordered, civilized society with running water, electricity, schools and hospitals, because I think most of them haven't a clue. At least in the clip I saw, I don't think BG helps a lot.Yes there is a lot of brutal behaviour shown in the cause of entertainment, and I plead guilty to enjoying some of it myself. But I think I know the difference between fact and fantasy, and when my wife wept for the wolf which was shot in "Dances with wolves" I could console her with the fact that in reality it was likely one of the healthiest and best looked-after wolves on the face of the planet. All the same, the next time we watched it we skipped over that scene and talked about how many biscuits he got while making it.
But no, just because there's a lot of it getting through I don't think we should stop being offended. I think we should be more offended, and more importantly I think we should do things about it. Saying the government can't control it is just a cop out. The government can't do anything. It's only the people that can really do things. Aren't we applying our own net now?
Despite Ofcom making it as hard to do as they can (dead links, broken forms, and no email address for communications on their Website, and their fax number doesn't seep to accept faxes) I have sent a letter of complaint to them, and I've also complained to the makers of the offending broadcast.
I wish more people would take the trouble and I wish I had a lot more time for this thread.
I'm very grateful to JD for starting it.
Maybe the tennis phrases didn't quite fit in with what he was doing, but he did state it's a method that locals use, it seems to be a good source of easy(ish) survival food and who's to say kids haven't maimed animals and fish by copying Ray Mears' demos for deadfall traps (and forgotten about them) and spear fishing?
Being still very new to the whole bushcraft concept and having no experience of many of the subjects, or indeed people, discussed here I have been trying to keep an open mind when it comes to 'Bear, good or bad?' type discussions. In this instance I think my open mind is close to closing. Thanks for posting that torc - without it I'd have been completely in the dark.
He made a game of it. You're not going to catch me shouting 'SNAP' every time I stretch a rabbit.
If anyone wants to see it, it can easily be found on Youtube if you search under 'bat tennis bear grylls'. Most of the links have been removed due to copyright infringement and the ones available have clearly been cut down. You still get the idea though.
But I'm sure you've held up your catch with pleasure at the catch. He made some tennis comments on what he was doing which basically was a kind of tennis stroke. Anyone would think he was drowning kittens in a bucket or something truly distasteful. He made a tennis racket type of kit and made tennis like strokes to catch the bats. SOmeone said that was the local way of doing it in a place most likely abundent in these bats. His comments matched his actions. Yes perhaps it was distasteful that he made light of the death of animals but we eat animals (or most of us do) and I'm sure a lot of us have made jokes about it. I mean, from calling a lamb mint sauce to making tennis comments while catching bats in a way the locals did it. Just different points on the same line.
Question, do you make jokes and have a laugh at work? Do you think those people working in a slaughter house make jokes at work while preparing your food? Do you think that is worse than BG making jokes while catching food that no doubt the locals eat or used to having caught it this way? The only differences really is if the animals suffer a lot and it is on tv. The first doesn't really look like being the case. That leaves the tv element. Could that be alleviated by a warning about bat conservancy?
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