Bartering what you got!

[arctic hobo]

Chocolet and Heather Graham (do I really need to state a reason for Heather? )....no question about either! lol

I'm guessing the chocolate is melted, and, er, shall I stop there??

 

[andyn]

then I'd slit your throat and take your stuff anyway

Hi Bam,
remind me not to come to any meets that happen to be in the woods, that your also attending I don't think i'd sleep very well

Mind you I know where your coming from and think that the good 'ole survival of the fittest would come into play very quickly.

Take care pal.

Andy

 

[The Joker]

I've been thinking about this since I posted just now and have come to a conclusion..... if it ready was the end of the world (as we know it, with no more police, army or government) and we really needed to live like this then I have to say if it was a choice between my family not making it or you, then I'd slit your throat and take your stuff anyway.... harsh I know and I half expect this post to be pulled (I wouldn't take offence if it was ) but it's survival after all and if that's what it takes then that's what I'll do..... before you dismiss this thought think about how far you'd go to keep yourself and more so your family alive

Bam.

(All of the above is of course hyperthetical...I'm not the violent type really and certainly don't mean this post to upset anyone )

Ditto, the most important thing in my life, my family FULL STOP!

 

[RovingArcher]

Family first? You bet! However, killing each other off is kind of counter survival in my opinion. Protect yourselves of course, but people need to come together to survive such ordeals.

 

[Kirruth]

There probably is an optimum size group: small enough that it doesn't wipe out the local game and plant resources, large enough that it can defend itself and work cooperatively. I'd say its about the size of a Bushcraft UK gathering

 

[mercury]

I went to survival bill website

I am now logged onto the net from the under stairs cupboard, all the windows in the house are boarded up , I have water and food for a month , after that its woodchip wallpaper butties.

The kids are fashioning cutting tools from flint shards I foraged earlier

The wife drew the short straw and is going out hunting hedgehogs for tea

When is armageddon again ?

 

[P Wren]

I went to survival bill website

I am now logged onto the net from the under stairs cupboard, all the windows in the house are boarded up , I have water and food for a month , after that its woodchip wallpaper butties.

The kids are fashioning cutting tools from flint shards I foraged earlier

The wife drew the short straw and is going out hunting hedgehogs for tea

When is armageddon again ?

And I never did successfully make fire by friction. Goodbye cruel world !

New thread suggestion - is neighbours cat an alternantive to hedgehog ?
It certainly doesn't seem safe to eat British Army Rations ! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4349916.stm

 

[bambodoggy]

It's very interesting to hear the comments from my earlier post and very good that it hasn't been taken in a bad way....as I say it wasn't meant that way.

I strongly believe in everything Roving Archer is saying and in an ideal world the community and barter system has to be the way forward... nobody can do everything as mentioned below so the only real way for the human race to recover and move forward is by working together...

The thing I was trying to highlight is that we can often and all too easily look at EOTWAWKI senarios through bizarly rose tinted glasses.... us and our family living in some wilderness like the Swiss Family Robinson, working together and thriving. While this may be possible in places like the US and Canada where there is a lot of countryside I simply cannot see it happening like this in the UK.

While we may have the skills and knowledge needed to keep our clan alive there will be other survivers that do not and in a country our size we will soon bump into them. There are bad people about that do bad things even in everyday life, can you imagine how it might be with the breakdown of law and order? We could spend a whole day foraging food for our family only to return home to find that bandits have found our camp and at best taken our stuff and at worst our family...I used to look at US survivalists and think "What do they need Armalites for...wouldn't they be better with a good quality hunting rifle"? but I've been missing the point. Man has been coverting his neighbours oxen since biblical times and I think protection (especially in a small country where hiding is going to be very hard) that personal and family protection is going to be just as important as an ability to feed ourselves.

The Mad Max films spring to mind.

Anyway, hope nothing like this ever happens, it's interesting and even a little fun to think about what we'd do and not do but I don't think the reality would be anything like we'd hope it might be.

Bam.

 

[bambodoggy]

Hi Bam,
remind me not to come to any meets that happen to be in the woods, that your also attending I don't think i'd sleep very well

Andy, I promise not to slot you in your sleep bud...honest lol .

 

[Marts]

Andy, I promise not to slot you in your sleep bud...honest lol .

Yeah. We'd need andyn to get all the stuff down off the top shelves!

 

[Eric_Methven]

It's not just family, it's community. If TSHTF even for a short time it's community that will pull through. A bunch of like minded people (us lot here or people like us) need to get together within our regions and set up SOPs for a just in case scenario. About twenty or so people could make do quite nicely for a couple of months in the wilderness (or the middle of a forest or whatever) until things got back to normal.

At the last Scottish Meet at Loch Achray some of us discussed such a possibility. We came to the conclusion that the skills present would allow us to build semi permanent shelters, forage, light fires and cook, hunt and fish and guard our territory sufficiently well to keep unwanted strangers out.

When I say SOPs (Standard Operating Procedures) I don't mean anything complex or difficult. I just mean we exchange phone numbers, keep an eye on the news and plan where to meet up if anything really bad goes down. It doesn't have to be global, international or even national. It can be something as possible as an attack on a chemical plant on Teeside for instance. Being evacuated into government shelters might suit some people but I for one would feel better taking the wife, my daughter and grandkids and going somewhere I know is safe with all my camping and bushcraft kit until the polution clears or is cleaned up. If five families within the same region, and all facing evacuation had a plan they could all meet up at the same place and provide mutual support for however long it took.

In a longer, worst case scenario, the men and possibly some of the women in the group could hunt and do guard duty, others could make shelters and keep the camp going, some could run a creche for the little ones and the older kids could gather firewood and forage for wild plants. I'm not saying we plan for the end of the world, but talking about a bushcraft 'community emergency support mechanism' would be something to discuss round the campfire at one of the meets. If people felt comfortable with it, they could exchange phone numbers and discuss further specific meetings to look into it more thoroughly.

Eric

 

[happy camper]

Saygo!!!! RA :You_Rock_ Good words to hear, community life is really the only true way of "surviving" get the strenght from each other as well as the protection. No one person can excel at all the skills needed so out come the blanket and we trade. Without my wife I'm only half of what I could be if even that. My family, my clan, my tribe are all in one :yo:

Interesting thread! i took it as a bit of fun initially but it's raising some stuff that seems to be a little more serious.
the sentiments above, among others, make most sense to me and it seems a shame that a sense of community and extended family beyond "me and mine" seems, at least on the surface, to be more and more lacking in modern society. It's difficult not to buy into what, i believe, is a climate of fear that is increasingly being generated , that it's every man for himself and that "they" somehow outnumber "us". It seems convincing but if everyone buys that, all we have is a self fulfilling prophecy, a vicious circle where everyone becomes our potential enemy.
This is in no way intended as a jibe, and i hope its obvious that i am not making connections with anyone here when i say, it's all too easy to become what you fear if you develop a siege mentality or a shoot first and ask questions later approach. It's not a huge leap to a "looking after number one" or "get them before they get me" attitude, and it's probably that ,in extreme, i guess, that fuels the majority of the muggers and the looters and the nutters that prey on those weaker than themselves, and that seem to be the favorite subject in the press. I guess random acts of kindness dont make such good headlines in either times of stress, or everyday life, but i reckon it's just as important to remember that they too are the reality.
I agree when people say their family is the most important thing, of course they are, and like anyone, if someone presented a direct threat to "me and mine" then i would act accordingly, using whatever means necessary.i would just like to try and expand the concept and numbers of those that fall within the category of "me and mine" as much as possible, and try to make sure that given any situation, while i remain aware of the possibility of danger and foes, i remain equally aware of the possibilities of friends and allies, and try not to buy into the idea that people suck and the world is a terrible place.
You may think i'm naive, but in my experience, the vast majority of (although obviously not all) people are basically good,and mean well, and while it's easy, on the surface, to find things that keep us all seperate, i reckon you only have to scratch the surface to find common ground and that we are all basically the same, with the same basic needs and concerns, and the same fears and hopes. ( Sorry, this is all getting to sound like a miss world speach ) I'd like to think i live in a world where, despite what i see in the news, and despite my fears, the idea of treating others as you'd like to be treated still exists and where, the second things change in some way, fear wouldn't have to take over, and we wouldn't all be beating each others heads in over the last slice of walls viennetta.
It strikes me that survival of the fittest or dog eat dog doesn't always need to be the first port of call, and doesn't always make sense , i reckon, eventually, there's always going to be someone faster, fitter, harder, more ruthless etc, no matter who you are, and, it is a strategy in which everyone will eventually find themselves the loser.
I reckon, while it's important to prepare as much as possible for any given eventuality, you can never plan for everything and it seems to me that its those that are open minded, flexible and adaptable that seem to cope best with difficulty or change, be it gradual, or sudden and catastrophic.
I guess i'm drawn to bushcraft for similiar reasons, i like the idea of "thrival" rather than just survival and i, like many i guess, am looking for ways to cope and even live well and more in harmony with my surroundings in any given situation. I suppose i reckon the only way to achieve that in the long run, broadly speaking, is through trying to keep an open mind, through cooperation and mutual respect, and finding some understanding that we, and everything around us, are connected, and part of the same community, and by extention, what we do to our environment and those that share it, be it good or bad, on a large or small scale, has a consequence that will eventually and directly affect "us and ours".
right, that's it, waffle over

 

[Abbe Osram]

You may think i'm naive, but in my experience, the vast majority of (although obviously not all) people are basically good,and mean well, and while it's easy, on the surface, to find things that keep us all seperate, i reckon you only have to scratch the surface to find common ground and that we are all basically the same, with the same basic needs and concerns, and the same fears and hopes.

Hi mate,
This is indeed a interesting thread and I agree totally in the "spirit" of what you wrote, I believe it is the only way to go for mankind if we want to survive the next 100 years.

One thing in your post struck me; you wrote:: ....the vast majority of people are basically good and mean well.

This is a very static picture and opens up for the illusion that someone is good and will not change according to what is happening to him. Someone said that a person can’t go twice through the same river. If you are a nice guy today how do I know that you are the same person tomorrow when the food is running out? How do we behave when we are standing in front of the FN truck seeing the last rice sack being handed out? Will we talk to each other, share the rice because we both know that our children are equally important to us. Will we embrace each other and help each other in a spirit of love. Or will our neighbors experience a scene where we both kick and fight, an FN policemen hitting us with a rubber baton, seeing the rice sack falling to the ground and hundred other people-rushing forward stealing "our" food.

I hope that I find you in your "good" spirit and will do my best to be myself in a "good" spirit when it really matters, not be bound by Fear. Watching the news I wonder!
You and I might have the potential but what happens to our intelligence and wisdom under pressure when we are part of the fearful mass. When everyone is rushing forward to save his skin will we keep peaceful and full of love, giving space to the other even if it cost our own life or are we trampling and stamping on bodies of our fellow humans to leave the burning building in a rush?

Yours
Abbe

 

[The Joker]

Yeah. We'd need andyn to get all the stuff down off the top shelves!

 

[bambodoggy]

I agree with Abbe....and add to his story that out of your wife and three kids only one child is left (due to the incident that left us all in this situation), you're a good person at heart and you want to be good but if you don't go out and take/steal food for your last child then you know they will die....I don't think there's many of us that wouldn't do it.... so you see you don't even have to be a bad person to do bad things....

Again, I seem to be reading of expectations from people who see it through those rose tinted glasses....nothing wrong with that and their optimism is to be commended but I just don't think it's going to be the case.... you might even be the only member of your family that makes it, you parents, children and grandchildren all gone.... grief striken even the most level headed person can do odd and out of character things.

Also:

It strikes me that survival of the fittest or dog eat dog doesn't always need to be the first port of call, and doesn't always make sense , i reckon, eventually, there's always going to be someone faster, fitter, harder, more ruthless etc, no matter who you are, and, it is a strategy in which everyone will eventually find themselves the loser.

Seems to work just fine and dandy in the rest of nature....until we humans poke our noses in... Nature is also often not fair or as beautiful and tranquil as we like to think it is... It's fairly logical really, only the strong survive and so their offspring are born strong too...and so on, so that the spieces is carried forward. Nature is a wonderful thing for sure but can also seem cold and cruel.

Happy thoughts for a friday afternoon lol

Bam.

 

[rich59]

I want to start a thread here as to what items you have or need and lets do a bit of bartering could be items you need or sell your labor for items you need...
so lets get started..lets make this 1 year after things become critical...
==============================================
I have 1/2 a hindquarter of deer will trade for 12 rolls of TP also have a GPS batteries are charged still good trade for whatever...I have for trade 5 lbs of seed peas I want allot for this item.... also have 2lbs of popcorn seed I want lots for this item.... have 5 rabbit skins hair on tanned before the crash for trade have 1 bear rug professionally mounted done before the crash Nice, for trade... wanted items: automobile gas - booze - Rum - Scotch - home brew - beer wanted automobile gas: must still be good will trade off wife for one year of slave labor only for large quantities of good gas...(harsh reality yes! depends on how bad things have gotten) (I don't have kids to trade their labor for stuff.)

Great question Survival Bill. But before I can begin to think about trading I need to work out a few details of how we got into this position a year after disaster.

And this is a bushcraft thread and fully appropriate here I think. This is "bushcraft meets survival"

So.... its October 2005, and in October 2004 there was a worldwide disaster that knocked out only humans and every human except the folks on this forum and a few nearest and dearest. What could have caused this? Could only be something like a deadly flu virus. And how is it that we lot survived? Well it was because we were all on a bushcraft meetup about a month before the disaster and were exposed to a mild form of the killer virus from a flock of geese that some of the guys downed, got us all to help pluck and gut before cooking. We were all quite ill a week later with bad flu, but most of us recovered back in our own homes in late October 2004. We did pass the virus on to a few of our close contacts. But then the virus mutated and became deadly and highly infectious and everyone else died.

So, we are then just a few scattered nuclear families facing winter 2004. My family might be the only people alive in London. Power is out, imports gone, government and police and army no more, shops have only what they had when they closed for good. We have each other, our house and in fact the whole of London as our own.

The first winter might actually be pretty comfortable considering. We might stay in our own home and rig up some bottled gas fires and cookers. Bottled gas would be in plentiful supply for just one family. Tinned food would get us by. Would lay up late autumn fruit like apples. Plenty of matches in the shops and we have a spark gas lighter.

Come the spring we might move to an allotement or farming area and aim to cultivate some crops in 2005. Probably haven't met anyone else. Radio bands silent.

Then one day Survival Bill turns up wanting to trade. Sorry mate no alcohol but could tell you where there are 100 off licences stocked to brimming. The biggest question might be over whether we would throw in our lot together to farm the land.

Anyway that is enough for now.

 

[ilovemybed]

To be honest folks, I'd rather be riding the bomb on it's way down than "survive" in a world like that, so you're all welcome to come round to mine and give me a final toast with before helping yourself to whatever else I have left. Rest assured so long as I have a working finger and a thumb there will be a bottle of Talisker in my hand!

However, I'f I'm still alive and kicking I might be tempted to find a boat and see what's out there. So what if I sink - at least I had fun doing it! I'll trade my 1975 Triumph Stag, 10 not so careful owners with 11 months MOT and 12 months tax, for a decent boat. Just so long as it's seaworthy, has a cabin and working sails I'll take it. If anyone else wants to come along that's cool but I'm making the final decision where we go and I get first dibs on the bottom bunk!

Would trade some decent but worn size 10's (got several styles, take your pick) for some decent fishing nylon or similar.

Oh, and I'd consider swapping my Kephart book for a book on how to sail, and perhaps swap my C U Jimmy bonnet for a decent Captain's hat...

 

[Eric_Methven]

So.... its October 2005, and in October 2004 there was a worldwide disaster that knocked out only humans and every human except the folks on this forum and a few nearest and dearest. What could have caused this? Could only be something like a deadly flu virus. And how is it that we lot survived? Well it was because we were all on a bushcraft meetup about a month before the disaster and were exposed to a mild form of the killer virus from a flock of geese that some of the guys downed, got us all to help pluck and gut before cooking. We were all quite ill a week later with bad flu, but most of us recovered back in our own homes in late October 2004. We did pass the virus on to a few of our close contacts. But then the virus mutated and became deadly and highly infectious and everyone else died.

What a wonderful scenario for a novel. Mind if i borrow it ? Seriously!

Eric

 

[ilovemybed]

What a wonderful scenario for a novel. Mind if i borrow it ? Seriously!

Eric

I'd read it - so long as you drink some of that moonshine before writing it...

 

[chrisvreugd]

can someone please tel me what TSHTF and EOTWAWKI means???