Badger rescue.

[Bushwhacker]

At risk of sounding like a grump here and not knocking what you're doing? but I don't understand why so much time, money and effort is spent on something that isn't rare nor needs any encouragement in boosting numbers. There's other creatures that could do with a bigger hand.

 

[ged]

At risk of sounding like a grump here and not knocking what you're doing? but I don't understand why so much time, money and effort is spent on something that isn't rare nor needs any encouragement in boosting numbers. There's other creatures that could do with a bigger hand.

They're little orphaned creatures.

The site isn't being used for anything else much, people can do a spot of, er, bushwhacking for free and maybe also do a little bit of good for wildlife along the way at zero marginal cost.

I don't see that more justification is needed.

At any one time I always have at least a couple of rescue dogs.

I click this link every day: http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces

I give substantial support to the RSPB -- in particular the "Save the Albatross" campaign, of which I'm a patron.

There are at least fifteen bird feeders in the garden, and right now I can see a woodpecker, a nuthatch, assorted blue, great coal and willow tits, not to mention something like a dozen bullfinches and a couple of wood pigeons feasting hungrily on the food that I put out for them every day. Every day when I walk the dogs I take about half a kilo of sunflower seeds and a few slices of bread to Pennytown Ponds, and robins, chaffinches, dunnocks, more tits and pigeons, some ducks and a few Canada geese follow me around begging for it.

http://www.jubileegroup.co.uk/JOS/misc/u6119080-small.jpg

So I don't feel that what I'm doing is in any way taking the food out of anyone else's mouth.

Could you just let us all know what you are doing for the world's wildlife?

 

[Bushwhacker]

Could you just let us all know what you are doing for the world's wildlife?

Let's just say it's a bit more than feeding badgers in order to gain some camping ground. I like you, Ged, let's not turn this into a p155ing contest. I commend what you're doing.

 

[ged]

Let's just say it's a bit more than feeding badgers in order to gain some camping ground. I like you, Ged, let's not turn this into a p155ing contest. I commend what you're doing.

No contest intended or necessary. Indeed I welcome this discussion.

So come on, share with us.

 

[Bushwhacker]

Are we talking about who can throw the most money at a problem via direct debit or physical dirt time?

 

[ged]

Are we talking about who can throw the most money at a problem via direct debit or physical dirt time?

We aren't competing, remember? This thread is about rescuing some animals that have been orphaned, in all probability by human activities.

I've no problem opening up the discussion a bit. See what people are doing. There have to be ideas out there.

I've shown you mine.

 

[Bushwhacker]

Was the site surveyed for ground nesting birds, reptiles, hedgehogs, ground nesting bees, dormice, et al?

 

[ged]

Was the site surveyed for ground nesting birds, reptiles, hedgehogs, ground nesting bees, dormice, et al?

Yes, the Wildlife Release Manager of the Trust did a two-day survey of the site and surrounding area to determine its suitability.

The main problem is humans.

 

[Bushwhacker]

No contest intended or necessary. Indeed I welcome this discussion.

So come on, share with us.

Ok then.

I clicked a button on the internet and saved Africa.

 

[Ratbag]

I'd like to help, other commitments permitting. Feel free to PM me with details nearer the time

Cheers

Rat

 

[treelore]

That’s great news Ged, I feel that if an appropriate sitecan be found and these badgers like you say are clean of TB then that’s a greatthing to do. But the survey does concern me as it was only done over 2 days andwas the person conducting it a specialist in that field/ecologist? I ask as I’veconstructed a lot of badger setts and otter dens in my time with conservationgroups/trusts and ecological company’s and it normally takes them a few days tosurvey the area, then normal takes quite a few visits in different seasons tooto get an in-depth picture. In a way bushwhacker does have a point about thebetter us of money, but the badgers should be given a chance, the trust couldsave its money by instead of rehabilitating fox’s and grey squirrels they shouldjust put them to sleep and use those fund for the more critically at risk faunaand flora in Great Britten. But at the end of the day it’s their money….

All the best with the project Ged

 

[Toddy]

Sounds like a good way to become involved with local wildlife, and the site sounds excellent too. A great chillout with the feel good factor built in

Good on you Ged

cheers,
Toddy

 

[ged]

I'd like to help, other commitments permitting. Feel free to PM me with details nearer the time

Thanks. Will do. There's a fair amount of interest now, so I'm thinking I'll put up a 'chute for the duration and make a fire pit.

 

[ged]

That’s great news Ged, I feel that if an appropriate sitecan be found and these badgers like you say are clean of TB then that’s a greatthing to do. But the survey does concern me as it was only done over 2 days andwas the person conducting it a specialist in that field/ecologist?

Sorry, I don't know their qualifications.

I ask as I’veconstructed a lot of badger setts and otter dens in my time with conservationgroups/trusts and ecological company’s and it normally takes them a few days tosurvey the area, then normal takes quite a few visits in different seasons tooto get an in-depth picture.

As I said in my earlier note about it, the initial survey found that there have been badgers on the site, within the last couple of years. I've seen a couple of setts there myself, and teased out a few obvious badger hairs from the ground litter. The guys doing the survey took this as a very good sign. The idea is that if there had been no sign of badgers on the site then a lot more work would be needed. If there had been badgers living there then it would have ruled out the site for release. As it is, it is far less of an issue to release badgers into a place where there have recently been badgers (and currently are foxes) than it would be to release them into a place where there have been none for some considerable time.

In a way bushwhacker does have a point about thebetter us of money,

Yes of course he does. The same could be said of my rescue dogs, although not safely if you were near my wife.

but the badgers should be given a chance,

My view is that as the overwhelming probability is that their original chance was most likely taken away from them by humans, we owe it to them to make the effort. The loss of life on the roads nowadays is colossal. The persecution in some areas is dreadful. Because of bovine TB, government is keen to pander to the farming lobby by implementing a cull, based on very dodgy science, when getting on for 90% of the animals killed will be perfectly healthy. It is after all bovine TB, and it's the high-intensity farming needed to support our ridiculously overpopulated island that got us into the mess we're in now.

the trust couldsave its money by instead of rehabilitating fox’s and grey squirrels

I don't think anyone is talking about releasing greys, are they? After all it's illegal in the UK.

All the best with the project Ged

Thank you.

 

[Jackdaw]

It is after all bovine TB,

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Thank you.

Mycobacterium bovis or Bovine TB is only a name and doesn't imply initial cause or source. When the strain was first recorded it was done so in cattle as there was a financial imperative to safeguard livestock suffering from a previously undiagnosed disease. It has subsequently been recorded in several of the larger wild mammals as research has been widened.

There is nothing "dodgy" about the science around cattle, bovine TB and badgers. Badgers are a known reservior of Bovine TB and the science actually strongly suggests that the interaction between cattle and badgers is the main reason why Bovine TB is proving very difficult to eradicate in cattle.

Tim Roper authored the latest New Naturalist publication on badgers and has given an excellent account of the science around Bovine TB and has produced a number of excellent recommendations regarding the control of the disease. These are:

1. Better bio-security measures around cattle farms to control the interaction between the two species.
2. Better cattle movement control measures. Currently stock can be taken from an infected area (following negative tests for TB) where they are subjected to more regular testing, and can then move in a relatively TB free area. When they are moved on from the relatively TB free area their point of source is only recorded at the last point they were recorded at i.e the TB free area. No account of their previous location is taken.
3. A change in legislation to allow vacination of cattle for Bovine TB. This is currently illegal with the available vaccinations (very similar to our BCG vaccinations at school) as it would make it impossible to test cattle for TB as any vaccinated would show up positive for the disease.
4. More research into the implementation of a population wide vaccination of badgers. Although it is theoretically sound, it needs to be cost effective and appropriately targetted. The current method is to trap badgers and then vaccinate. This is costly and is personnel and equipment intensive. There is also the question of the other reseviour species such as the larger deer species and foxes.

The issues around badgers and Bovine TB are emotive at best but the science is there. I personally love surveying for badgers and every now and then watch a couple of setts where I live on the other side of the Humber to help in their protection from persecution. However, I also know that both banks of the humber (especially the south) are saturated with badgers. This is because of the barrier effect created by the river.

I would love to get involved in this project but suspect the distances involved will preclude my involvement. I am a consultant ecologist with many years of badger experience from survey to mitigation projects including the creation of artificial setts. With that I mind I would like to point out that the fencing you use for your release pen should have zero chance of any badger becoming stuck in. It would be unacceptable to Natural England if the materials used were not those approved and recommend by them. Fencing currently recommended is galvanised welded steel mesh 2.5m wire with a spacing of no more than 25mmx25mm.

Your local Natural England advisor should be able to help but it would also help your cause to get in touch with the local badger group and check their records for the area as release into an already populated area would be inappopriate. Badgers can have very wide territories and may not actually have an active sett in the area you are suggesting for release.

The reason for the disuse of the sett you found (I am assuming the activity you found was a sett) could well be entirely natural and not because of human pressures. There is a lot of direct and indirect persecution that goes on in these allegedly enlightened times but badger social groups can, and regularly do, collapse due to disease as well as famine.

Good luck in your endeavours and feel free to pick my brains for advice anytime.

Jack

 

[ged]

...Good luck in your endeavours and feel free to pick my brains for advice anytime.

Thanks for your very well informed and helpful post. Some of what I've posted in this thread has been a little tongue in cheek, and I apologize for that. The quips about dodgy science and badgers getting stuck in a fence fell into that category.

There's no doubt that a lot of good science has been done but I'm not sure that it's all been carefully noted at all levels. Also I'm not sure that some of what we're seeing now -- and not just in the case of the control of TB -- isn't the result of intense lobbying by powerful interests. Trials were carried out under certain conditions, but now completely different conditions are proposed, apparently because the government is strapped for cash, for culls. There seems to be a certain selectivity in the choice of the 'facts' used to support the arguments. The forum rules don't permit political discussions, so we'll probably have to leave it there at least on the public forum.

The people at the Trust are in fact in touch with the local badger groups, and taking advice from them. I understand that another site visit is planned to include local badger group representatives but I know no more than that at the moment. As I said in an earlier post one reason that the Trust insisted on surveying the site was that an existing badger population in the area would have ruled out a release on the site.

As far as this site is concerned the situation at the moment is still undecided, so the main activities are collecting information and, in case a release is possible, bits of hardware.

If you felt the urge to visit the site sometime you would be more than welcome.

 

[Fat ferret]

At risk of sounding like a grump here and not knocking what you're doing? but I don't understand why so much time, money and effort is spent on something that isn't rare nor needs any encouragement in boosting numbers. There's other creatures that could do with a bigger hand.

Can't help but agree here but if thats what you want to do then faie enough. I would like to ask how you know a badger is orphaned and how you decide it won't survive without your help? I ask because I know of a number of cases of people trying to "rescue" roe deer kids which lie quietly out of the way in the woods until the doe comes along to feed them. If a young brock is out of the sett then surely it is big enough to look after itself.

Also if you are releasing brocks into the wild then are there no brocks where you are releasing them? If not why not?

I am a firm believer in doing things to help wildlife rather than just leaving nature to it. Out of doors in Britain, wherever you are is generally being mamaged by us for something or other. Just not sure this is something people should interfere with.

 

[EdS]

wonder if there is anywhere like that around here. I have the perfect spot for them - also has former sets and plenty of wood & short grassland (and protective locals)

 

[ged]

Can't help but agree here but if thats what you want to do then faie enough. I would like to ask how you know a badger is orphaned and how you decide it won't survive without your help? I ask because I know of a number of cases of people trying to "rescue" roe deer kids which lie quietly out of the way in the woods until the doe comes along to feed them. If a young brock is out of the sett then surely it is big enough to look after itself.

I haven't a clue how the Trust picks its badgers. Nor its bats, nor its hedgehogs, nor any other of its orphans.

Also if you are releasing brocks into the wild then are there no brocks where you are releasing them? If not why not?

Please read the entire thread, that's been covered.

I am a firm believer in doing things to help wildlife rather than just leaving nature to it. Out of doors in Britain, wherever you are is generally being mamaged by us for something or other. Just not sure this is something people should interfere with.

We are already interfering! We call it 'progress'. Transport, agriculture, energy, you name it. We have been interfering more and more, to the ever increasing detriment of our wildlife, for hundreds of years. I'm just trying to help some people who are trying to push the balance back a little way in favour of the wildlife.

 

[Shewie]

Put me down on the list too Ged