Are you seriously proposing that someone went badger baiting with a Patterdale puppy? Or just being ridiculous?
Badger Baiting Arrests
- Thread starter Scots_Charles_River
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They do indeed use patterdales. Mainly to flush badgers more than attack. Im unfortunate to know someone who breeds them for the purpose. scum bags that they are.
This might be of interest,
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[h=4]Dogs Used in Badger Baiting[/h]"There are several dog breeds that are specifically bred for badger baiting purposes. In the UK (and Ireland), these include Airedale terriers, Bedlington terriers, Blue Paul terriers, Fox terriers, Glen of Imaal terriers, Sealyham terriers, Bull terriers, Staffordshire bull terriers, Welsh terriers, Wheaten terriers and Kerry blue terriers. Some countries in the North of Europe use Dachshund hounds and Bassett hounds, whereas some countries in the South of Europe use Portuguese Podengo breeds."
Taken from this site,http://www.ruralsports.co.uk/badger-baiting.html there isn't anything shocking for younger or sensitve members but if a Mod considers it so please remove it.
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[h=4]Dogs Used in Badger Baiting[/h]"There are several dog breeds that are specifically bred for badger baiting purposes. In the UK (and Ireland), these include Airedale terriers, Bedlington terriers, Blue Paul terriers, Fox terriers, Glen of Imaal terriers, Sealyham terriers, Bull terriers, Staffordshire bull terriers, Welsh terriers, Wheaten terriers and Kerry blue terriers. Some countries in the North of Europe use Dachshund hounds and Bassett hounds, whereas some countries in the South of Europe use Portuguese Podengo breeds."
Taken from this site,http://www.ruralsports.co.uk/badger-baiting.html there isn't anything shocking for younger or sensitve members but if a Mod considers it so please remove it.
Did you read my previous posts?
Let me catch you up:
We had a few posts and opinions that i wholeheartedly agree with, i did not agree with Toddy when he/she posted "Put their dogs down"
My opinion is that each dog that was taken during the raids should be judged individually, rather than a sweeping judgement of kill them all.
We do not know what dogs were taken, nor their ages.
Patterdale Terriers are used extensively by the scum of the earth that go badger baiting, it's not a far stretch to assume that these scum were breeding their next generation of baiting dogs, as serious injuries and death are common amongst dogs used in this activity.
So there is a good chance Patterdale Terriers were taken in the raids and the odds are that there were also Patterdale puppies taken.
I don't know this 100%, but in my experience it's an highly likely scenario.
In offering this scenario i'm trying to show Toddy that.
a/ She is wrong in assuming any and every dog taken in these types of activities is dangerous
b/ That it's not pitbulls and Rottweilers that are used for cruelty and fighting
c/ It's reasonable to assume that by favouring a sweeping statement like that it will be a death sentence for many dogs that haven't even had a chance to form ANY personality and character yet, never mind that of a killer.
So i'm not proposing that someone used Patterdale puppies for baiting, although i have no doubt if the runt of the litter was not of "fighting material" they'd use it for a warm up for the badger (i've come across much worse in my time at animal shelters).
I'm saying that a sweeping statement that ALL the taken dogs should be killed because they are ALL dangerous is factually incorrect at best and immoral IMO.
Well that's a matter of opinion. I'm well advanced in years but it seems I still have a lot to learn.
The article mentions that the scum who engage in this activity often draw the teeth and claws of badgers to make the conflict last longer.
I would cheerfully murder anyone who did that.
It makes sense that pups are taken to these events, those that are game & 'have a go' will be trained on & those that refuse will have another destiny.....I imagine that they would be confronted with a dead or dying badger though..
I agree with cbr6fs views about putting the dogs down, Toddy's 'final solution ' is a little too extreme but I know her opinions regarding dogs.
I agree with cbr6fs views about putting the dogs down, Toddy's 'final solution ' is a little too extreme but I know her opinions regarding dogs.
Patts are more the choice of a badger digger than a baiter. Two different ilks and even then pattys are considered too game for their own good. Just because a dog is too gamey with certain animals , its own kind included, doesn't mean it cannot be loved and enjoy a 'regular' doggie lifestyle. Just like track greyhounds aren't the most social of dogs, but still can make loving pets after they have been kicked off the circuit for aggression.
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Actually we do retire them Toddy. Here is a link to the adoption site: www.militaryworkingdogadoptions.com
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We are talking specifically about dogs here in connection with the type of people that use them for badger baiting, i don't see what a species not connected with either the thread or this specific discussion has to do with it
I am sorry to have to say this santaman but in my experience you are talking rubbish.
The reason i feel i have to put my opinion so strongly is because:
a/ It so absolutely positively a million miles off the real world experiences
b/ My experiences are SO different i'm thinking either your having a bad day mate or you have absolutely no first hand experience with dogs and dog breeding.
With my own 2 eyes more times than my hope for the human race can take, i've seen some of a litter that are extremely nasty and others in the exact same litter that will cower in a corner for 20 mins if you raise your voice.
Again from the exact same litter.
EVERY litter has the strong domineering type of dog and the runt of the litter, it makes absolutely no difference on the breed.
For reference the smaller dogs i've come across tend to be the nastiest, this is often the case simply because the owners allow this sort of behaviour because they think it's "cute" or funny in a small dog.
The instinct to hunt is something that is completely different to dogs attacking people and other dogs.
A well trained retriever will return with the kill without a single puncture mark on the flesh.
A well trained lerture will chase and kill a rabbit or hare shake it till it's dead and hold (not chew or maul) till the handler gives the release command.
My Jack Russell will go down holes if i tell her, yet not once when we are out walking will she take off on her own down one.
Look at police and armed force guard dogs, these are not bred to be nasty, they are trained with a certain amount of 100% controlled aggression.
The dogs are not bred to be aggressive, the dog breed is selected for main reasons, size (for stopping people) intelligence, speed, duration and an important thing that is often overlooked, docile when not working.
If you see these dogs at work you really would not want them anywhere near you, yet the majority of handlers i know when given the choice take their dog home and socialise it with their family.
Aggressiveness CANNOT be bred into a dog, it is born 100% out of training and circumstances.
It would seem we have a mutual opinion of each other's experience. I can only back mine with 50+ years of dog handling (various hunting dogs, farm dogs, guard dogs, police dogs, as well as pets) REAL WORLD experience.
And yes you are right about military/police dogs being bred for LACK of natural agression. They are taught to believe it is play.
I think he's suggesting that not all the dogs siezed will have reached matiurity yet. It is reasonable to assume that if they were breeding their own dogs there may well be litters waiting to replace the older stock.
Game aggression is different to out n out aggression. A game dog will be aggressive to the task it has chosen. An aggressive dog may not be game after a taste of its own medicine. A lot like a bully . Eg. A dog can be 'game' wiaht engaging in physical contact. Like when an airedale terrier holds a bear or mountain cat at bay. Gameness IS bred in to breeds and refined in strains of breed. Agressivness is through bad leadership IMO
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I generally agree with this. The problem as I pointed out is that the authorities also have limited resources and would usually rather use those lllresources on animals they already KNOW are adoptable.
Litters of puppies would be an easier decision.
I really cant believe that in this day in age on this forum of all places. People can have such outdated generalisations of dogs of any breed. Its akin to racism to me.
I agree completely about "Game Agression." However general agression is another matter. I've seen pit bulls that were indeed docile, loving pets. I've also seen more than one that werte simply killers. One pair in particular wandered into my cousin's yard, dug under the dogpen fence and proceeded to maul her labrador puppy. When she heard the noise and looked out the window she went out to stop the attack. The pits saw her and turned their attack onto her. She shot both of them but even with 180 grain, 40 caliber bullets in them they pressed on and took another round each before dropping. I've seen them at dogfights (decades ago, before it was illegal) keep fighting extremely agressively even after their legs had been shredded in the combat. Not ALL pit bulls are agressive. But those that are do NOT learn from a dose of their own medicine; they simply haven't the remotest concept that they could EVER lose.
Edit to add: No her lab puppy did not survive the attack by the pits.
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Races evolved naturally. Dog breeds (or any animal breeds actually) were created artificially by humans. Each breed was deliberately developed for a specific purpose. True enough many breeds have proven useful and adaept in ,many other uses apart from the original they were bred for but then again, it's usually because someone changed the breeding program.
Always a pleasure reading and debating with you Santaman.
In my short time here i have come to respect your opinion even if i disagree, as there is no doubt as the kids today say "you've been around the block" and the times i've seen you express an opinion there is doubt you've put a fair bit of thought and experience into it beforehand.
It really does grate on me that these dogs that were bred for cruelty, bought into this world for cruelty, lived a life of cruelty, all trained into them from the day they popped out, are then put down because they are only trying to do what they think makes their handlers and other humans happy.
BUT
I do understand resources are often stretched and while i can't personally condone putting down a dog unless it's in pain i can see why it's done sometimes.
So although i don't agree, i can understand that some dogs taken from these scumbags will need to be put down.
I still strongly believe it's outrageous and morally reprehensible to put down ALL dogs taken from raids like this, just because their owners are scumbags.
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I was really aiming at peoples prejudiced attitudes. Im.well aware of our evolutionary paths. That wasnt my pount at all. ive been around dogs and dog people of all types all my life. And anyine who thinks these dogs are born with this behaviour really has not got the first idea.
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