Axe and/or saw, what do I not understand?

[carolinitza]

Hi,

Being somewhat new to the concept of bushcraft I realized early on that I needed an axe with me on my trips. I already had a no name axe with a total weight of 1 kg with about a 35 cm shaft. I used my axe a lot, doing all my wood work with it. Then I got a bigger axe since I started to think that my axe was a bit too small and hoped to get the wood work done faster. A Hults bruks 1.25 kg head with about a 60 cm shaft. I love this axe, used it a lot. Even though it's a bit on the heavy side I prefer this one to the other since it feels much safer to handle. I don't have to use a lot of force, I can let the axe do the work for me.

Then my boyfriend bought me a Bahco Laplander. First I didn't even bring it with me since I could not see any use for it but taking my kid to the woods on my bike I felt like cycling through town with a big axe was not such a great idea so I took the little folding saw with me instead. After using it for about 20 minutes I was really impressed. I feel like I have to put in much less effort when sawing compared to working with the axe for the same amount of wood or end result.

So I started to think about if I really need the axe. I stopped taking the axe with me which in some ways was liberating since I didn't use it enough to motivate the added weight of bringing it with me. The last three times I've been out I've taken them both with me, always starting with the axe because I think it's going to do the job but always end up switching to the saw since I find it doing a much better job. I would love my saw to be a little big longer though.

After reading a lot of threads on the matter I wonder what the axe is for that I am not doing on my trips today. I have no problem gathering wood and prepping it for my fire even though I'm staying a couple of days. This is one argument of having the axe is that when you need to do a lot of work the axe is better.
Splitting wood is something I rarely do. When I do it's almost smaller logs, a diameter of less then 10 cm that I usually baton with my knife and this is something I do when the conditions are damp, otherwise I just collect the right sized branches to start my fire. I can't seem to find the need of splitting wood. I usually look for the right sized wood and when I need wood larger than I can baton with my knife the fire is already built up to such a state that it will be able to swallow the full size of the log.
The other argument I've seen for having an axe is where you live. And the argument seems to go that the further north the greater need of an axe. This is something I don't understand. Does that mean that I who live in Sweden should be in great need of an axe. I understand that in many places a machete would be preferred over an axe but is there a difference in need of an axe between a french bushcrafter and a swedish bushcrafter? And why would that be?

I am not trying to argue whether or not you should take an axe or not I'm just questioning my need for it. And since I'm a newbie on this I feel like my lack of experience can make me see this in a wrong way. It seems like everyone caries an axe so I feel like I must me missing something. It must be something i don't understand or something that I have not yet done on my trips that would create the need of an axe. Or is there people out there not using an axe?

 

[santaman2000]

For years I went camping without taking either one. No, there's no "need" for it, but often working with the axe is just plain fun. It's all up to what you want to do.

 

[John Fenna]

Axes are great for starting carvings such as spoons, for shaping wood for building structures and splitting large logs.
Saws are great for harvesting wood and cross grain cuts when shaping wood.
Your tools should reflect the needs that your plans require for completion
This weekend I will be taking saw axe and machete as I want to clear light undergrowth, split some wood down and (hopefully) harvest some poles ... and I can afford to carry the weight!

 

[Longvalley]

I live in Québec, so we have similar climate: i did go camping several years without either. I bring an axe when canoe camping because i can and it fun to swing, also because i know i can carve myself a paddle or anything i might need with it. I would really see the "northern" need when winter hot tenting, needing to process bigger dead standing wood ( along with a good bigger saw). It could also be usefull in a very frequented camping site that have been " picked clean" of dead wood, but a bigger saw would also do the job. I dont carry an axe when backpacking, i dont hate myself that much!

 

[C_Claycomb]

If your local resources allow you to make your fires reliably without an axe, then you don't "need" one . When I have been in Sweden, Norway and Canada an axe has been invaluable and even a large knife was no substitute, but we were either building shelters by felling trees, or working with hug sized logs, or everything was soaking wet and the only firewood was knotty 12 to 20cm logs that had to be split down. All these trips were with groups of six to eight, with a corresponding increased use of the fire for cooking.

The reason for suggesting that further north it is of more benefit to have an axe is, I believe, to do with both the nature of the wood to be found. We had Mors Kochanski come and visit the UK some years ago and he was amazed at the energy content of woods like maple and ash, he just about set light to the shelter parachute by using maple as if it was aspen or spruce. He said that the best firewood they have is willow, which is considered one of the worst here. Lower energy wood needs to be burned in greater quantity to get the same heat, and an axe helps in efficient wood processing.

 

[KenThis]

You're right.
Tools are subjective.
Some will want to play with an axe because doing so is fun.
Some will want to use an axe because they have more experience and feel they can do a lot with it/more efficient.
Some will want to take an axe because they can.
Some will want to have an axe because it fits in with their ideas of bushcraft.
Doesn't make them right and you wrong.
It seems like you don't have much use for an axe on your trips, or rather at the moment you'd rather carry a saw than an axe.
Sounds good to me, the main thing is you are out having fun.
Don't let anybody tell you that your way of enjoying your bushcrafting hobby is 'wrong' just because it's different.

I've recently bought a pair of pruning shears to take with me, when I take my wood gas stove, because it's gonna make preparing little bits of wood easier for me. Therefore as far as I'm concerned this makes it the best bushcraft tool for me!

EDIT: What everyone else has already said as well...

 

[scarfell]

All about what you need to do and what you can do where you work/camp.

I don't bother with an axe, because I wouldn't be allowed to use the places I do for very long if I did, even if it was just concerned locals seeing it at camp.

But I have used them, and there are many things they can do that a saw can't (a hand held one anyway); but for many jobs, a saw and knife do just fine.

 

[Herbalist1]

Hi Carolinitza,
as others have said, just use the tools you need for the jobs you do. Axes are great for splitting and processing larger wood, for preliminary carving and shaping and all manner of other tasks. But if you're not carrying out those sorts of tasks, then don't feel you need to have an axe just to be 'bushcrafty'!
Saws are great for cutting firewood and quicker, less effort and definitely safer than axes ( and I love my axes). However you did say you could do with a bigger saw - so a folding bucksaw could be ideal for you. The danger is that you'll starting cutting larger diameter firewood and then an axe is definitely the best tool for splitting it down!!! Though you can baton large diameter timber with wedges.
Guess what I'm saying is go with what works for you rather than what others might tell you you need - and happy bushcrafting - I'm very envious of you being in Sweden!!

 

[scarfell]

+1 folding buck saw, fairly simple project for improving knife skills too I tend just to carry my knife and a saw blade, couple kg weight saved and something to make once the fires going

 

[Robson Valley]

Optimize your circumstances. Obviously, there are plenty of options.
Many BCUK people with many useful suggestions = so you try some. What happened?

You have learned a lot in some "shake-down" trips.
Carry what you know that you can use, given your style of activity.

 

[Shelley]

Some people (not all) carry an axe because it makes them feel bushcrafty, the same sort of people tend to wear army jackets in town.

Take what works for you, not what other people tell you to do or what you see others do, if we all watched Rambo and nothing else we would all have awful knives!

 

[Tiley]

As has been said, this is very much a personal choice. I find an axe useful for splitting wood principally though it is also very useful for speedy preparation of tent/tarp pegs and roughing out any craft projects. Its presence in my pack means that I don't have to baton my knife to split things - something about which I'm not always happy! - and the edge on my knife is retained for just that bit longer.

Certainly, a saw, be it Laplander or Silky, is arguably quicker and almost certainly safer for processing wood but doesn't quite have that visceral satisfaction about it; it's just a bit too mechanical and repetitive and doesn't require the skill that an axe does.

Having said all that, nowadays, I tend to pack a knife and saw when I'm heading out; occasionally, a hatchet will be included but rarely my axe. Thinking about it, perhaps I should make room for it. Who knows? It might add to my woodland/forest camping pleasure!

 

[Muskett]

Visiting the woods, wild camping, or just traveling through then really not much in tools is needed. You are not staying for long and there is good argument that the smaller the footprint you leave the better.
Do you really need more than a knife and Silky Saw (Silky's are superior to Laplanders)?

Going the lighter the better has real advantages, and an axe of any type is heavy.
If you only need poles for a shelter, and something to clear an area then why not a Skrama. Have a saw too.

Weekend away dicking about in the woods then you can take the lot:

Bushcraft includes building more substantial structures, up to a log cabin, and making more complex items be it spoons or chairs. Long term wood burning for heat and cooking requires loads of cut wood. Add it all up then the bigger the tool box the better. Felling axes, planing saws, drills, hammers, lathes, to the point a village is built. Once people had mules to carry it all, now its trucks.

Back to axes. Small axes be it a hatchet or Small forest axe have their uses but aren't that efficient. A full sized felling axe is where they start as an industrial tool. Specialised axes are for specialised work be it carving or making things, or just because its man portable.
There is a hobby in axe and wood use, but only if its given the time and commitment. Quite a skill base required. A lot of people take an axe into the woods for it only to get very little actual use, if any. Often some lighter tool could do it as well.
One huge problem is we all want to go as individuals, or with one other, rather than a group/team. A team can carry a larger variety of useful tools as they can distribute the weight, each carrying something more specialised until there is a substantial selection that can handle all the tasks.

So asses what you really need, look at alternatives and see how they go. If you are traveling keep it light weight and compact. If you want to build something take more. You pack it you carry it. Part of the fun is trying things out, and gaining skills.

 

[scarfell]

Some people (not all) carry an axe because it makes them feel bushcrafty, the same sort of people tend to wear army jackets in town.

Take what works for you, not what other people tell you to do or what you see others do, if we all watched Rambo and nothing else we would all have awful knives!

generalizing more than a little

 

[Muskett]

Bushcrafty: a small forest axe strapped to the backpack is to counter the beer gut hanging out the front. As taken from the Ray Meers books of bushcraftyness.
Anyhow: combat trousers can counter the waist loss from being away from beer for extended periods.

Rambo: not only awful knives but hair cuts too.

 

[Shelley]

Hey muskett, what's the knife in the kydex/leather sheath?

 

[Muskett]

Survive Knives GSO.

More on survival planning rather than bushcraft then some kind of tool is a good thing to aid in shelter and fire. Get lost in the woods then what is the minimum you can get away with to prove enough to survive a night, two nights at most? Depending where you live and the conditions dictates what is needed. Some places an axe might be the most efficient to cut enough material fast enough to get that fire going, keep it going, and build that shelter. A saw and good strong knife is my preferred choice, but if I was traveling with more people then an axe might add to the mix.

Both axe skills and saw skills are well worth learning in the comfort of your own home, well in civilisation. A lot of accidents are caused with these tools by people not having any real idea how to use them safely. They are a learn't skill, not some god given right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hgx6yPQUT8

 

[LostViking]

I agree with what others have said. Different things work for different people for different reasons.

I find I can accomplish a lot with a small knife, small saw, and small axe.

 

[Wayne]

I find that most Uk bushcrafters have very little need for an axe unless they regularly have access to woodland they can practice their skills on. An axe isn't a tool for camping without landowners permission where a fire would be questionable.

I have over 40 axes and use them all. I'm on the constant look out for new quality tools but I'm fortunate to have access to lots of woodland and I buy lots of trees each year to process.

Consider the style of camping and bushcraft you do if you're a car based camper with little access to woodland then investing in a quality axe may not be for you. If you idea of bushcraft is making stuff from wood then a good carving axe will be a joy to use.

im not a fan of large knives here in the U.K. Too much negative press and they aren't really suited to the types of tasks I like to do.

If you're splitting lots of wood a good splitting maul would be handy as would a good Froe. I own 3 currently and am looking for another few. froes are excellent tools for cleaving. My smallest is great for splitting kindling for the Kelly.

Decide what you want to achieve and then select the tools that make you smile. Learn to use them effectively and you're never have a bad day in the woods.

 

[dwardo]

Its a broad spectrum from a nail file to a chainsaw. You could do anything with the file you could with the chainsaw, given a millennia.

Given the choice I would have a mule carry round my full assortment of axes, files, hooks, knives, stones and general tools.

If we are headed up to the woods after processing timber for projects then the "tools" bag can be twice the weight of my rucksack. Few axes, knives, carving knives. wedges, hooks, copper lump hammer etc etc. Where as a more on the move trip where its all about the trip and scenery a saw/knife combo is more than enough.

Sorry probably didnt answer your question!