Are the Lakes open from Wednesday or not?

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Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,154
1,546
Cumbria
Does anyone know if we can day trip 45 minutes to one of our favourite walks in the centre of the Lakes from Wednesday? Or as a national park, will it still be closed???


I really don't follow what the new rules are. AIUI you can go out all day and to places that are not local to you for exercise. Providing you follow social distancing rules. However I read that you need to check whether NPs are open first since they might not be.
 

Countryman

Native
Jun 26, 2013
1,652
74
North Dorset
Government update is this


4. Visiting public places
You can exercise outside as often as you wish and from Wednesday 13 May, you can also sit and rest outside – exercise or recreation can be alone, with members of your household, or with one other person from outside your household, while keeping two metres apart at all times.

From Wednesday 13 May, you may drive to outdoor publicly accessible open spaces irrespective of distance, but should follow social distancing guidance whilst you are there. You should plan ahead to ensure that, where you are visiting places like National Parks, you have checked that they are open and appropriately prepared for visitors. You should not go to ticketed outdoor leisure venues, where there is a higher risk of close contact and touching surfaces.

When travelling to outdoor spaces, it is important that people respect the rules in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and do not travel to different parts of the UK where their intended activities there would be prohibited by legislation passed by the relevant devolved administration.

However what the Lake District says



Many roads to lakes are locked off.


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Broch

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Jan 18, 2009
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Yep, you now need a visa to enter Wales - unless you're playing golf at Llanymynech golf course where 15 holes are in England and 3 in Wales - you can hit your balls into Wales but can't then go and put them in the hole - :)

What a farce! I really hope England doesn't regret this.
 
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Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
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It's all a farce. One prominent epidemiologist at a London university that is a rival of the one the government uses and quotes actually explained on interview that they're using the wrong model. There's two basic models. One for highly serious outcome but low transmissibility viruses, then another for low seriousness and high transmissibility. The former is like SARS the latter is closer to COVID 19. The model that he says should have been used doesn't recommend closing schools and having the lockdown. Protecting the vulnerable and widespread testing yes but a lot of the lockdown isn't.

Who's right we'll never know. Perhaps Sweden is an example but even that's not right for either model I'm guessing. Germany, South Korea,. China and no doubt others have indications that they could be heading to a second peak after easing of their lockdowns.

Then you've got the Scottish parliament releasing a plan on how they're going to ease lockdown one week with number 10 arguing that it dilutes the stay at home message. Wales was also talking about measures being changed. Then next week England is easing things and the other nations are condemning it.

Sorry if that's political but I'm trying to say that this situation is so big and our nation so small that the nation's should have put aside their territorial rights and powers to work together with one message. Variations across great Britain according to state of play locally is still possible but the evidence that allows it is the same across Britain.

Now you can travel but not everywhere. Personally there's should simply stick to local travel only. Just more time allowed out. Keep people from traveling from one area to the next. East Lancashire has a very high R value but North Lancashire hasn't. Keep east Lancashire people in East Lancashire is my view. Same with Cumbrian and Lancastrian. Yorkshire should if course always stay put!!!!;);););)
 

Broch

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Jan 18, 2009
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Sorry if that's political but I'm trying to say that this situation is so big and our nation so small that the nation's should have put aside their territorial rights and powers to work together with one message.

It's nothing to do with territorial rights really - it's party politics; Welsh Labour Government sticking two fingers up at the Conservatives. I am very disappointed with all three mainland Governments; they should have agreed a common policy. What chance do we have of negotiating Brexit with European Governments if we can't even compromise on a few issues easing lock-down within the UK?
 

Chainsaw

Native
Jul 23, 2007
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Central Scotland
It's nothing to do with territorial rights really - it's party politics; Welsh Labour Government sticking two fingers up at the Conservatives. I am very disappointed with all three mainland Governments; they should have agreed a common policy. What chance do we have of negotiating Brexit with European Governments if we can't even compromise on a few issues easing lock-down within the UK?

I respectfully disagree, England is a bit further down the curve than Scotland is so it doesn't make sense for Scotland to release too early or indeed for England to hold back when they are ready to release.

I personally don't agree with the new England rules, they are illogically and fatally flawed and virtually unintelligible, unworkable and unenforceable. Your mileage may vary. :)
 
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Broch

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Jan 18, 2009
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I respectfully disagree, England is a bit further down the curve than Scotland is so it doesn't make sense for Scotland to release too early or indeed for England to hold back when they are ready to release.

I personally don't agree with the new England rules, they are illogically and fatally flawed and virtually unintelligible, unworkable and unenforceable. Your mileage may vary. :)

Actually I think we're in general agreement; I didn't mean to suggest that Wales and Scotland followed England but that there should have been an agreed process and a much clearer message about the borders. There are no hard borders; it's impossible for the authorities to actually enforce this situation.
 

Woody girl

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Mar 31, 2018
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Exmoor
Living on exmoor which is heavily reliant on tourism I'm worried as are many locals that we are going to get swamped with visitors bringing the lurgy with them.
We have been fairly lucky so far and we want to keep it like that.
Visitors won't be very welcome especially if they want to use our shops.
No tea rooms open and no public loos either.
Go out by all means but please stay local.
I want to go out too and I don't want to be meeting strangers from contaminated areas on a narrow pathway.
To my mind it's far too early and we are going to get a second wave if people go travelling to other areas.
I know we are all fed up and the panic has worn off but common sense is needed more than ever at this point. We are still having hundreds of deaths a day more than when we initially locked down. Work it out for yourself, why should it be ok now , but not all those weeks ago?
 
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Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,154
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Cumbria
I tend to agree with staying local, it's just a bit unfair for people who don't live in nice areas for be walking. I'm fortunate in that I'm very near Arnside and Silver sale AONB. Plus on my doorstep there's a canal which leads to woods, open fields and plenty of tracks or footpaths. I'd prefer to live in the lakes during lockdown though. Wouldn't we all prefer to live in our favourite areas??

It seems that you've lucked out with Exmoor. Nice place to be locked down in now that allow unlimited exercise outside. Does that mean a sneaky wildcamp???

BTW Cumbria has a high infection rate from the beginning my area isn't as bad. It would be my luck to get COVID in a sneaky trip to the Lakes!!! Not worth it. The Lakes will be around for longer than I will so best wait.
 
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Trojan

Silver Trader
Mar 20, 2009
688
57
The Countryside
I totally agree stay local. Every one is going to go out and there will be no facilities to cater for them. I am sticking to my local woods where there are a few people but plenty of space to pass.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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We finally have our restaurants back open for dine in (they never had to close for take out) That said, like all other businesses they’re restricted to 25% of their full occupancy rate and now the tables are spread at least 6 feet apart. Yesterday I took Barbara out to brunch for Mothers Day. We each had an awesome 6 egg omelet with accompanying potatoes O’Brien and fruit, and she had a bottomless mimosa (I had to refrain from alcohol for another few weeks as my kidney heals)

It was our first meal out in six weeks or more.
 

Woody girl

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Mar 31, 2018
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I tend to agree with staying local, it's just a bit unfair for people who don't live in nice areas for be walking. I'm fortunate in that I'm very near Arnside and Silver sale AONB. Plus on my doorstep there's a canal which leads to woods, open fields and plenty of tracks or footpaths. I'd prefer to live in the lakes during lockdown though. Wouldn't we all prefer to live in our favourite areas??

It seems that you've lucked out with Exmoor. Nice place to be locked down in now that allow unlimited exercise outside. Does that mean a sneaky wildcamp???

Yes it may seem a bit unfair for those that live in cities or towns with miles to go to a nice area, but there are places to go and walk much nearer than an hours drive away for most places. When I lived in central Gloucester I could find places no more than a 15 minutes drive away to walk .

As for a sneaky wildcamp, ... well we will see, not just yet as I live about 5 miles away from any decent spots and that is up very steep hills (I live in the barle vally) my bike is sorned there are no public transport and walking that far uphill would do my wonky leg and back in before I got there!
I do have a spot in mind though.
I do like to have a companion on my wild camps tho, because of my health problems. Sometimes i push too hard and need help,.and all my local friends freak out at the idea of camping, let alone wild camping with no toilets and shower block!
My usual companion lives over 50 miles away... and has just blown his car up big time so has no transport. I'm on the vunerable list too, so supposed not to mix with other humans at present.:(
I realy want to get out. It's just local short walks for exercise and day camps for the moment.
Just have to curb the impatience a little while longer.
 
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Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,154
1,546
Cumbria
We have a popular, local walking spot that's owned by some wildlife organisation. I've always thought a tarp pitched late at night would be ok. Not sure if is during lockdown even though I could get away with it.

We walked there yesterday evening and when we left the was a VW camper be and what looked like a converted panel van. I'm not sure I'd want to leave our van in that big carpark right now. Or at any time because it's not a reputation for a certain activity that isn't about taking your dog for a walk late at night!!!! Perhaps better find another sneaky camping spot.
 

SaraR

Full Member
Mar 25, 2017
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Ceredigion
We're so not out of the woods yet and since people couldn't refrain from having actual street parties last Friday, I fear they won't act responsibly with these new freedoms either. I guess, we'll know in 4 weeks time or so...

It doesn't help that the new rules weren't introduced particularly well either. You need to set people up for success and present England only rules like that was plain stupid.

I am certainly going to enjoy being allowed out more than once a day and not be limited to only the dog walks, but no way I'm going to risk infection by going to places with lots of people like garden centres.

Most universities are currently working hard to plan how and when to start next academic year, with delayed or phased starts and less in person teaching being a real possibility. That should give an indication of just how surrounded by trees we are.
 

C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
7,355
2,366
Bedfordshire
PaulB,
I am not going to try to guess what you meant in post #4. I didn't read anything bad in it, but apparently that is because I am English and cannot see how offensive it is to the Scots and Welsh (two Scottish members stating it was offensive to them and going into long detail).

This is why we have a rule about avoiding politics. What seems fine to one, and sounds merely awkwardly worded to another (me in this case), can be read as offensive to some. Very difficult to moderate.

Folks, please leave all political remarks out; even if you think you are being completely fair and even handed in pouring scorn on all parties equally. ;)

Thank you.

Chris
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,154
1,546
Cumbria
I'm Scottish and I don't see a problem with #4 either...
Well I've certainly read worse when applied to other nationals but I'll listen to the advice of the mods. I do not mean offence or be more political than is allowed afterall. I know from other interest forums when politics becomes nasty and it's one reason I come to this sanctuary.
 

richy3333

Full Member
Jan 23, 2017
273
101
Far north Scoootland
Then you've got the Scottish parliament releasing a plan on how they're going to ease lockdown one week with number 10 arguing that it dilutes the stay at home message. Wales was also talking about measures being changed. Then next week England is easing things and the other nations are condemning it.

Sorry if that's political but I'm trying to say that this situation is so big and our nation so small that the nation's should have put aside their territorial rights and powers to work together with one message. Variations across great Britain according to state of play locally is still possible but the evidence that allows it is the same across Britain.
I hope the following might help as someone commenting as a person from Scotland...

The Scottish government did not release a plan but a framework https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-framework-decision-making/

The Scottish and Welsh governments have both stated on the BBC that the first they knew of Westminster’s intentions was when they read the English Sunday papers - change of message that was published From stay at home to stay safe.

I appreciate you probably don’t watch the daily Scottish briefings (not a criticism as I don’t watch the welsh ones!) but if Nicola Sturgeon stated once she said numerous times that following England was not about scoring political points over Westminster but to do with the R value differing in Scotland. At many other Scottish TV briefings over these weeks Sturgeon has stated that political differences should be set aside when dealing with Covid.

As it’s Wednesday tomorrow it will be interesting to see how the English act/react to the new rules (if anyone can understand them ).
 

jmagee

Forager
Aug 20, 2014
127
10
Cumbria
Cumbria is still pretty high on the number of cases and various authorities up here have basically said stay away. Lots of carparks including the national park authority are still closed. At the start of the pandemic cars were being vandalised around the Coniston area.
I think it's worth staying away for a few weeks. I live in Cumbria but outside the national park and I'll be staying away for now.
 

Countryman

Native
Jun 26, 2013
1,652
74
North Dorset
I think the final word on this should go to Coniston Mountain Rescue.


Hello All,

Hopefully you’re all managing to stay safe and healthy through the Covid-19 pandemic.

We know that many of you will be desperate to get back on the fells and trails, and to get your Lake District “fix”. The relaxation of the Coronavirus lockdown may have been music to your ears, when the Prime Minister stated that it is now Ok to drive any distance to take your exercise. This came as a total surprise to us as a Mountain Rescue Team (MRT), Cumbria Police, Cumbria Tourist Board, The Lake District National Park and also The National Trust. Simply, the Lake District is NOT ready for a large influx of visitors. The hospitality sector remains closed, some car parks may be re-opening, along with some toilet facilities, but this is an enforced opening due to this announcement to cater for those that do decide to come, rather than an invitation.
Why are we, Coniston Mountain Rescue Team, so concerned about the relaxation of the travel to exercise rules? Maybe if we talk you through what happens it may explain why we’re worried.

Firstly, we are all volunteers – most of us have day jobs from which we take time off to deal with incidents during work hours, or time out of the rest of our lives “out of hours”, and secondly most of us have families who we need to protect.

How a rescue might play out during the Covid-19 pandemic:-
1. Paul and Sarah came up from Preston, and have summited the Old Man of Coniston, had their lunch and set off down towards Goats Water.
2. Paul slips and hears a crack from his left ankle, Sarah tries to help, but Paul can’t put weight on his ankle which is at a funny angle anyway. Paul is 15 stone and 6ft 2 tall. Sarah is fit but no way could she help Paul back down.
3. Sarah dials 999, remembers to ask for Police and then Mountain Rescue, the operator takes the details and asks a lot of questions to assess the Covid-19 risk posed by both Paul & Sarah to the MRT, and subsequently to Ambulance and medical staff that will need to treat Paul.
4. In the meantime, four groups of people come by, they all say they’d love to help but haven’t got any Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) and must socially distance themselves by at least 2 metres.
5. The Police alert Coniston MRT to the incident via SARCALL, and the Duty Team Leader (TL) calls Sarah, having sent her a link by text for her to click on to confirm their exact position, and asks more questions, to work out the resources needed.
6. The TL then calls other members of the Leader Group to discuss the requirements and decides a 10 member group is required on the hill, and alerts the Team to that requirement.
7. The Team numbers are depleted anyway, we have a number of people who contribute massively to the Team generally but are over 70 years old, i.e. higher risk group, we have people who may be shielding a family member, or at risk themselves due to underlying medical conditions that normally wouldn’t be an issue. So a team of 10 assemble at the MRT base, plus someone to run the base – this person is important as it helps with coordination of other services letting the hill party get on with the job.
8. All members are briefed regarding the incident, and check all are happy with the unknown invisible risk posed by the incident; the risk of walking up the fell is taken as read and a baseline anyway. All PPE is checked.
9. Team members climb aboard two of the Team’s three vehicles. Why only two when social distancing could be better in 3 vehicles? The need to decontaminate the vehicles on return probably outweighs the advantage of social distancing, and it leaves another vehicle able to respond to any other incidents.
10. Normally the Team would mobilise within 10-15 minutes of this type of call, due to all the pre-checks, personnel checks etc., time elapsed thus far is 45 minutes.
11. The vehicles arrive at the road head, one last check on PPE and kit for the incident, including radios, and the Team sets off for the casualty site. Walking time to site is around 45-60 minutes.
12. The Team can’t call on the Air Ambulance for support as they're off-line for this type of incident due to staff being redeployed elsewhere in the NHS or due to other priorities and risk factors so cannot support. Similar with Coastguard Helicopters...
13. On site, one casualty carer and one assistant will approach the casualty with as much PPE on as possible, and may well apply PPE to the patient before carrying out a full primary survey, in this case that’s simple, Paul’s ankle is (probably) broken, and there are no other underlying medical factors like a head injury, multiple other injuries or catastrophic bleeding.
14. The casualty carer and helper would normally give Paul some Entonox (pain killing gas) while they straighten his ankle to ensure a pulse at the foot and also maybe a pain killing injection. The injection takes 15 mins or so to work, but Entonox is not given because of the potential risk of contamination. However, the foot needs straightening ASAP to restore the pulse in Paul’s foot. Paul screams as the casualty carer re-aligns the foot (it’s called reducing the injury) to restore circulation and allow for splinting.
15. Paul’s ankle is splinted and although he’s still in pain, it’s less than it was and the painkilling injection is starting to take effect. Time elapsed since Paul fell is now 2 hours 15 mins.
16. The Team moves in and helps Paul on to the stretcher, the stretcher is made of stainless steel and heavy, it is about 2.5 metres long and maybe 0.6 metre wide, usually it takes 8 people to carry a loaded stretcher, they cannot socially distance.
17. The Team carries Paul down to the Walna Scar road, where they’ve asked a North West Ambulance Service land ambulance to meet them to reduce potential contamination at base. The carry down has taken 2 hours, so now it’s 4 hrs 15 since Paul fell. Paul is transferred to the Ambulance and taken to Furness General Hospital. Sarah can’t drive, but can’t go in the Ambulance either. How can the Team get Sarah re-united with Paul and then how do they both get home to Preston when Paul is fixed? What happens to their car? In normal circumstances we can fix these issues, not so easy in the Covid-19 pandemic.
18. The Team returns to base and starts to decontaminate the stretcher, the vehicles, the non-disposable medical equipment, the splint and themselves. Jackets and other clothing are all bagged ready to go in their washing machines when they get home, which takes a further 1 hour 15 minutes. Total time elapsed 5hrs 30 minutes. Total man hours 10 folk on the hill plus 1 running base = 60.5 man hours.
19. Paul is admitted to Furness General Hospital after a wait of 1 hour at A&E. He is taken to cubicles and X Rayed to understand his ankle injury better. He is also routinely tested for Covid-19. Paul’s ankle needs an operation to pin it as the break is a bad one.
20. Paul’s Covid-19 test comes back positive. Oh dear! Paul is asymptomatic, he has the virus but is either naturally immune or has not yet developed symptoms. The message is passed back to Coniston MRT, who then have to check the records of those on the incident. Every one of them, the ten people on the incident and the base controller, must now self isolate and so must their families, so now we have maybe 35 people all having to self-isolate. Plus possibly the Ambulance crew and their families.
21. Three days later Eric from Essex decides he wants to come to Coniston to do the 7 Wainwrights in the Coniston Fells. He sets off, and completes Dow Crag, the Old Man, Brim Fell along to Swirl How and Great Carrs and across to Grey Friar, then on up to Wetherlam. Eric puts his foot down on a rock, the rock moves and Eric is in a heap on the floor, his foot is at a funny angle...he gets his phone out and dials for Mountain Rescue... but there are only three people available from the Coniston Team now, so the decision needs to be taken by the Coniston MRT duty leader which Team to call to support, Neighbouring Teams are Langdale-Ambleside and Duddon & Furness MRT’s. The issue is, they’re in the same situation as Coniston with people self-isolating due to potential contamination, or their members are keyworkers in the NHS and can’t deploy on MRT incidents.
So – we’re asking you to think twice, even three times before you embark upon travelling to the Lake District for your exercise. The risk, however small, is real, and I write this as a MRT member for over 30 years with probably around 1000 incidents under my belt, I know, accidents happen.

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