Are City Dwellers scared of the forest?

[Gary]

Having a fear of the dark should be looked on as a positive thing, we all have it to a lesser or greater extent. Its this fear which kept your ancestors alive! no doubt there were many brave young men in aeons past who claimed to have no fear, and who picked up their spear and walked to the cave entrance to find out what that 'snuffling' noise was...

Only to be dragged off kicking and screaming in to the dark..

We are all descended from the ones shivering with fear who kept their back to wall and kept the fire burning high...

Good poinbt Sandbender but sadly the sabretootch, wolf and bear no longer hunt in our little land - now the snuffling noises will be the local glue head getting high or maybe a cat rustle setting his snares!

 

[Stuart]

I do not believe that people are naturally scared of the woods.

they are naturally scared of the unknown though, which is a mechanism built into our genes to make us cautious of things we have no knowledge of and in doing so keeps us alive.

unfortunately the majority of modern westerners have no knowledge of the forest and so fear that which the do not understand.

 

[Stuart]

Having a fear of the dark should be looked on as a positive thing, we all have it to a lesser or greater extent. Its this fear which kept your ancestors alive! no doubt there were many brave young men in aeons past who claimed to have no fear, and who picked up their spear and walked to the cave entrance to find out what that 'snuffling' noise was...

Only to be dragged off kicking and screaming in to the dark..

We are all descended from the ones shivering with fear who kept their back to wall and kept the fire burning high...

well said :biggthump great first post!!!

(I was in the middle of writing my last post when you submited that)

 

[sandbender]

Gluesniffers etc... Sadly all too true...

That said, earlier this year I attended a Woodlore tracking course in Namibia, although tents were provided, I and a a couple of other hardy types would sleep around the fire. One night shortly before bedding down a herd of spooked Steenbuck thundered past, one of the instructors calmly noted that there was probably a leopard or lion nearby! great I thought.. and fell asleep.

At three in the morning, with the hairs on the back of my head bristling I was very suddenly and absolutely completely awake....

Lions were roaring, several of them, very close!

The three of us moved a little closer to the fire and the instructor reached out of our 'Koral' and dragged some more wood on to the fire.

The roaring stopped after 3-4 mins, we eventually all drifted back to sleep.

The next day we found the tracks, six lions, 40 yards out, they had circled the camp at least once, no doubt scoping out the three figures huddled around the fire.

 

[Stuart]

your instructor wasnt woody was it?

 

[sandbender]

Thats scary...

But who else would have the cajones to step outside the firelight with several 300lb killing machines prowling nearby!

Yes it was.

 

[Stuart]

that would be woody, I had the pleasure of spending a very enjoyable 4 days with him in the jungle about two weeks ago out here.

 

[sandbender]

I remember the photographs and journal, very impressive, never been in a jungle, hope to one day.

I have some images from the Namibia trip online I'll email you the link.

 

[Stuart]

thanks I'd appreciate that.

 

[bambodoggy]

We are all descended from the ones shivering with fear who kept their back to wall and kept the fire burning high...

Good post and very possible in the main part but there is increasing thought and evidence that Neolithic and Upper Palientific man wasn't quite the "Caveman thug" type that is popularly thought to be (sorry my spelling is so bad!!!)

It now appears they had trade and commerce as well as almost production line techniques for making valuable items and selling them....

I guess if you go back far enough then we would be descended from the ones shivering with their backs to the walls but by the time they'd invented/perfected fire they were a lot more advanced than we usually give them credit for.

None of which changes the point Sandbender is making but it's just a point of interest.....well to me anyway! ):

 

[tenbears10]

I have some images from the Namibia trip online I'll email you the link.

Could you stick a couple in the gallery sandbender? I think everyone would be interested in seeing them.

Bill

 

[jakunen]

Just remembered something...

On the way to the airport going to Tunisia last month I met a kid on the train who had just been inducted into a 'secret' troop of the American Scouts. He was an army kid and although he'd always been in built up areas or on base, he was heavily into the wilderness but had never had much opertunity to be 'under canvas'.

As part of the 'rite', he was told that he could, if he wanted to, spend a night alone in the woods. It wasn't compulsory, but he was encouraged to do it.

He decided that he would and so was told that he could take a poncho, a knife, a hank of twine and that was it.

He wandered off into the woods at dusk and found a place to set up his shelter, gathered ferns for a bed and settled down. As night fell he started to get a bit bervous as the sounds around him stilled and his sight began to fade. For a while all appeared silent, no breath of wind in the trees, no bird song, nothing... Then the night sounds began - little rustlings in the undergrowth, the occasional squeak of a rodent, the scream of an owl - he really started to panic as he'd never heard such a frightening array of sounds straight from his nightmares!

He was on the verge of a panic attack but decided he'd show them and would sit it out.

Steeling his nerves, he tried to calm his breathing and try to identify what each sound was, only for a moon beam to break through just as an owl glided across the clearing and set his heart in his mouth!

Gritting his teeth he resolved to sweat it out. He was no child anymore, he was a scout!

He managed to calm himself down again and realised that his sight had improved a bit, and by the feint moonlight, he could see reasonably well. He spent the next few hours watching a fox sniffing around the clearing, a family of badgers rootling around, the owl settle on a stump to eat a vole, another vole or mouse delicately eating blackberries.

He fell asleep in a new found sense of wander and had to be woken up by the scout leader as he'd slept through breakfast.

He ended up spending every night in the woods and was the only lad that did that rite out of the 12 kids inducted.

He now has no fear of the night and all its 'terrifying sounds'. Instead he loves the night and playing guessing games trying to identify each sound and vague shadow moving through the woods.

He's resolved to go to university and study woodland management or something similar so that he can turn his new found pleasure into a career.

The point of this rambling post? A city bred kid used the lights and noise of a forces base, jets, and lorries faced his fear, grew up overnight and came to love the mysteries of being out in the dark amongst nature.

 

[TheViking]

Just remembered something...

On the way to the airport going to Tunisia last month I met a kid on the train who had just been inducted into a 'secret' troop of the American Scouts. He was an army kid and although he'd always been in built up areas or on base, he was heavily into the wilderness but had never had much opertunity to be 'under canvas'.

As part of the 'rite', he was told that he could, if he wanted to, spend a night alone in the woods. It wasn't compulsory, but he was encouraged to do it.

He decided that he would and so was told that he could take a poncho, a knife, a hank of twine and that was it.

He wandered off into the woods at dusk and found a place to set up his shelter, gathered ferns for a bed and settled down. As night fell he started to get a bit bervous as the sounds around him stilled and his sight began to fade. For a while all appeared silent, no breath of wind in the trees, no bird song, nothing... Then the night sounds began - little rustlings in the undergrowth, the occasional squeak of a rodent, the scream of an owl - he really started to panic as he'd never heard such a frightening array of sounds straight from his nightmares!

He was on the verge of a panic attack but decided he'd show them and would sit it out.

Steeling his nerves, he tried to calm his breathing and try to identify what each sound was, only for a moon beam to break through just as an owl glided across the clearing and set his heart in his mouth!

Gritting his teeth he resolved to sweat it out. He was no child anymore, he was a scout!

He managed to calm himself down again and realised that his sight had improved a bit, and by the feint moonlight, he could see reasonably well. He spent the next few hours watching a fox sniffing around the clearing, a family of badgers rootling around, the owl settle on a stump to eat a vole, another vole or mouse delicately eating blackberries.

He fell asleep in a new found sense of wander and had to be woken up by the scout leader as he'd slept through breakfast.

He ended up spending every night in the woods and was the only lad that did that rite out of the 12 kids inducted.

He now has no fear of the night and all its 'terrifying sounds'. Instead he loves the night and playing guessing games trying to identify each sound and vague shadow moving through the woods.

He's resolved to go to university and study woodland management or something similar so that he can turn his new found pleasure into a career.

The point of this rambling post? A city bred kid used the lights and noise of a forces base, jets, and lorries faced his fear, grew up overnight and came to love the mysteries of being out in the dark amongst nature.

Excellent story jak! It can help to say that if others can do it, I can too.
"What one man can do, another can do!"

 

[Jamie]

I read an interesting article (cant remember where it was) on the safety 50 years ago as opposed to today in relation to rapes, murders and abductions and was amazed to see that, relative to the increase in population, there are no greater numbers of those (rapes, murders and abductions) today than 50 years ago - we only percieve it to be more due to the hype of media attention and frenzy.

 

[jakunen]

Yeah. Personally I've always loved the night out doors, and used to find it irrational that others feared the night, but when you look at the actual reasons, you realise it's not so irrational, and certainly isn't for the person concerned.

I just hope the story helps anyone who has any kind of fear to overcome it. If you face up to your fear and try to find some beauty, majesty or interest in it, you can normally overcome it.

 

[jakunen]

I read an interesting article (cant remember where it was) on the safety 50 years ago as opposed to today in relation to rapes, murders and abductions and was amazed to see that, relative to the increase in population, there are no greater numbers of those (rapes, murders and abductions) today than 50 years ago - we only percieve it to be more due to the hype of media attention and frenzy.

Well, its headline news when it happens and headlines sell papers.

We always knew it happened but it was never sensationalised like it is nowadays...

I know I'm a cynic, but...

 

[Moonraker]

There are too recognised phobias related to this.

Nyctophobia- Fear of the dark or of night.

Nyctohylophobia- Fear of dark wooded areas or of forests at night

So, whilst all of us have some level of natural instinct/fear (fight/flee) in our genes, these situations can also manifest into full blown phobias. The later also affects people even during the daytime. Simply entering a darkened, shady wood or place can induce panic.

I always find entering deeply shaded pine forest affects me. Not necessarily being scared but certainly a change in perception.

There was/is some interesting work done on human perception of natural environment (and artificial 'designed' surroundings i.e.e urban areas).

One well worth checking.

Jay Appleton, 'The Experience of Landscape', Wiley, 1975. Revised edition 1996.

Perhaps the most important overall symbolic association we make through our direct interactions with natural environments was identified in 1975 by English geographer Jay Appleton. He proposed an influential theory of landscape/environmental aesthetics centering upon a concept he terms "prospect and refuge." Appleton describes prospect as a condition that allows us to view our surrounding unimpeded, while refuge is a place of concealment and retreat. Together they indicate the presence of safe places from which to explore -- a combination of characteristics that satisfies many fundamental survival needs as well as needs for higher order experiences.

Natural prospect symbolism includes the openness of a setting, and the presence of hills, mountains, promontories, climbable trees or other elevated features that afford expansive views. Natural refuge symbolism includes enclosed spaces, vegetation, contained fire and climbable trees with large canopies. (The fact that trees are symbolic of both prospect and refuge makes them very powerful symbols of survival and pleasure, perhaps accounting for their universal preference.)

Appleton argues that we seek and experience as pleasurable the juxtaposition of prospect to refuge in our environments.

How it relates to fear of dark wooded spaces can be seen here:

Geographer Jay Appleton independently developed a prospect-refuge theory of landscape preferences that is closely related to the savannah hypothesis.* Appleton argues that people prefer to be in places where they have good visual access to the surrounding environment (high prospect), while also feeling protected and safe (high refuge).* Conversely, high negative reactions are expected when one can be seen without the ability to see into the environment.

This is much the same sort of proposals set out by ecologist Gordon Orians:

Drawing on habitat selection theory, ecologist Gordon Orians argues that humans are psychologically adapted to landscape features that characterized the African savannah, the presumed site of human evolution. Although humans now live in many different habitats, our species long history as mobile hunters and gatherers on the African savannahs should have left its mark on our psyche. If the “savannah hypothesis” is true, we would expect to find that humans intrinsically like and find pleasurable environments that contain key features of the savannah that were most likely to have aided our ancestors’ survival and well being.* These features include:

· A high diversity of plant (especially flowers) and animal life for food and resources.

· Clustered trees with spreading canopies for refuge and protection.

· Open grassland that provides easy movement and clear views to the distance.

· Topographic changes for strategic surveillance to aid long distance movements and to provide early warning of approaching hazards.

· Scattered bodies of water for food, drinking, bathing, and pleasure.

· A “big sky” with a wide, bright field of view to aid visual access in all directions.

The Prospect and Refuge has a strong influence on how we feel outdoors and helps explains fear of the dark and dark, enclosed spaces.

Most of the time we simply choose a spot to camp coming from a number of conscious and subconscious decisions. Next time you are sitting next to the fire have a think about why you ended up in the spot you did or why that glimpsed view out over a still, tree lined lake from a open grass glade, near a clear stream was so satisfying

 

[jakunen]

Most of the time we simply choose a spot to camp coming from a number of conscious and subconscious decisions. Next time you are sitting next to the fire have a think about why you ended up in the spot you did or why that glimpsed view out over a still, tree lined lake from a open grass glade, near a clear stream was so satisfying

Very interesting quotes there MR.

Aside from the reasons outlined in your quote for picking a particular spot, there are the other, in some ways for me more fundamental reasons for many of us - that of escapism.

Part of the reason I get out and do bushcraft is to get away from modern technology - pcs and mobiles, and the things that cause me stress - comms engineers and the parent company I work for. Being otuside away from e-mail and phones helps to 'recharge my batteries' and by just being out there, and not here tapping away on a keyboard with a headset attached to me ear and stress levels rising.

I don't really care exactly where the location is, any place will do so long its not here - a river or lake bank, a hillside, the sea, a woods.

But obviously the esoterically better the location, the faster I unwind and the deeper my sense of well being.

 

[Moonraker]

I don't really care exactly where the location is, any place will do so long its not here - a river or lake bank, a hillside, the sea, a woods.

As a conscious decision jakunen but if you think about it, little is random in our choices especially outdoors and our subconscious is busy analysing all the parameters without us ever knowing.

The 'need' to get out is also entwined with our desire to re-connect with nature and away from our 'everyday' environment.

Whilst focused on considering nature in our built environment, this article has some interesting info on what and why we have this need.

source:The Need for Nature, Part II. Why nature should serve as a model for built environments. by Julie Stewart-Pollack

Independent studies overwhelmingly illustrate that when it comes to what we need and want from our environments, it is all about survival. What we have always needed from our environments -- survival advantage -- is what we have always wanted from our environments as well. It still is. The biophilia hypothesis, which holds that we have an innate, hereditary need to experience and affiliate with the natural world, suggests that these fundamental needs and wants are still as much a part of our deep survival instincts as the "fight or flight" response or the need to "protect your back." They produce automatic, unconscious responses and behaviors, which may explain why we recognize the feelings certain environments evoke in us, but not necessarily the causes.

The first article is here:

The Need for Nature, Part I

 

[Jack]

Don't want to throw a spanner in the works of Rev Maddave, but do you all think that we could, starting from Jan 1st, start to use the word 'wood/woodland' instead of forest :?:

As forest, ( historically) has nothing to do with woodland :shock:


Cheers.

Jack ( who is now waiting to be stoned )