Anyone a Health And Safety Wizz??

[TeeDee]

Just asking , is anyone a Health and Safety rep/officer etc , to give background gen-inf.

I highlighted a potential genuine H&S issue about 6 months back and after causing a bit of a stink ( after giving the company fair time to react to my concerns and address them ) ,was promised positive action would be taken. Nothing occured.

Roll on 6 months same issue results in two members of staff having injuries to their fingers ( could have easily lost the fingers ), Company H&S rep now seemingly shows interest and promises to address after an ad-hoc meeting with myself to suggest a positive step action.

Roll on 6/7 weeks , nothing has happened to rectify situation, I'm being asked to re-inform the H&S rep of what I have already previously suggested ( even although he was there in a face-to-face meeting ) and to re-suggest a positive action plan ( er?,..isn't that your Job? ).

Long story short , I've had enough and the next person to injury themselves on the offending equipment i want to furnish with all my previous communication and point in the way of a good claims solicitor.


So anyone out there familiar and experienced , because i swear I'm about ready to reach out and lamp my H&S rep for being an incompetent shiney arsed desk mook.

 

[ged]

Your employer appears to be in breach of its legal obligations. You should talk to your local authority. They have an enforcement officer who has statutory powers and obligations to act.

http://www.devon.gov.uk/healthandsafetyservice.htm

 

[Trev]

Hey ,
From what I remember as my time as a union H&S rep , A H&S rep ( justifiably given the injuries and timescale ) can just shut the machine down until it's addressed . If your rep isn't doing his/her job contact your regional rep . This assumes your're in a union . If not your're pretty much screwed because although you can escalate it through the local authority your time at work maybe become both uncomfortable and brief .
Cheers , Trev .

 

[IanM]

I am a recently retired H&S consultant and was at the very top of the game when I left with some 40+plus years experience (even before HASAWA).

This is a very difficult area, but to guide you I need honest answers to the following:
1. Do you have everything you put above in writing, if not it is just fog.
2. There are two sorts of H&S rep, an accredited Union H&S Rep and a non-union elected H&S 'representative for H&S'. it makes a big difference as to which they are. They have different duties, responsibilities and eventually clout. Which do you have?
3. Are you willing to put your job on the line? This is the most difficult question. There are simple mechanisms to report to the HSE anonymously but from what you say it would be obvious that it is you doing the reporting, this could flash back on you.
4. Are you willing to go on working for an uncaring, perhaps dangerous company? Often the best way out for an individual is to walk away from the job but this could be difficult bearing in mind the current job situation (but it means keeping your fingers).

Edit:
Just seen the two previous posts.
Local Authorities do not enforce H&S on manufacturing sites (which I assume this is) that is the HSEs job.
Union reps can certainly shut down plant and machinery if there is an imminent threat to life and limb. This does not sound like that case in that the injuries are infrequent and minor (even loss of a finger is minor and not RIDDOR reportable)(RIDDOR is a piece of rubbish law!).

 

[FGYT]

even loss of a finger is minor and not RIDDOR reportable(RIDDOR is a piece of rubbish law!).

asfar as i remember anything that causes a person to be off work for 3 days or more is RIDDOR reportable in the 10 day limit but yes is treated as minor ie "report filed thanks Bye "

 

[TeeDee]

I am a recently retired H&S consultant and was at the very top of the game when I left with some 40+plus years experience (even before HASAWA).

This is a very difficult area, but to guide you I need honest answers to the following:
1. Do you have everything you put above in writing, if not it is just fog.
2. There are two sorts of H&S rep, an accredited Union H&S Rep and a non-union elected H&S 'representative for H&S'. it makes a big difference as to which they are. They have different duties, responsibilities and eventually clout. Which do you have?
3. Are you willing to put your job on the line? This is the most difficult question. There are simple mechanisms to report to the HSE anonymously but from what you say it would be obvious that it is you doing the reporting, this could flash back on you.
4. Are you willing to go on working for an uncaring, perhaps dangerous company? Often the best way out for an individual is to walk away from the job but this could be difficult bearing in mind the current job situation (but it means keeping your fingers).

Edit:
Just seen the two previous posts.
Local Authorities do not enforce H&S on manufacturing sites (which I assume this is) that is the HSEs job.
Union reps can certainly shut down plant and machinery if there is an imminent threat to life and limb. This does not sound like that case in that the injuries are infrequent and minor (even loss of a finger is minor and not RIDDOR reportable)(RIDDOR is a piece of rubbish law!).

Thanks for the response Ian.

1) Yes
2) H&S Company Rep, No real Union H&S rep although a token Union presence does exist. Paper Tigers However.
3) The Industry I work in is too small and close knit that as you point out and I appreciate it would be career suicide.
4) Not really an Option to walk away.

Mostly just frustrated/angry/hacked-off that 'proper' H&S issues get ignored and swept under the carpet or blagged off. Don't Know if its a UK perspective that staff are resources to be used and abused ( Oh look , this ones broke , go and get a new one...) and although h&s IS a cliche buzz word of the current time it really ( as seemingly explained above ) has zero serious influence for the average man on the street without same self man potentially losing his ( or her ) job.

Many UK companies must spend thousands on getting outside instructors to teach 'safe lifting methods' on a regular basis but won't lift a finger to spend those same thousands on rectifying glaringly obvious safety issues.

Sorry , still in Rant mode.

 

[TeeDee]

Sorry Gents , Forgot my manners , Thanks all for the various inputs- appreciated.

 

[Challenger]

Hi,
I am a Health and Safety professional, starting from being a trade union H & S rep to now being an H & S manager. From the brief information provided it seem that your company does not have an effective accident investigation process, measures should have been implemented following the first accident to have prevent reoccurrence.
Your H & S representative does have a right to request information from the investigation (some information might be legally privileged) and also carry out their own investigation, you could ask for this information, this would prove if your company did carry out any form of investigation.
Your H & S rep should have been elected (regardless if they are trade union or not) and should be representing you. You can contact the Public Concern at Work 020 7404 6609 who will give you free advice. You are protected by law for informing on your company by the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998.
One point regarding RIDDOR any amputation is reportable under RIDDOR, fractured fingers are not reportable

 

[Mesquite]

Tee Dee... you say 'company H&S rep' do you actually mean they are employed by the company to manage H&S?

It's just that usually the term H&S rep is applied to a duly elected union person to represent their members in the company.

 

[TeeDee]

My apologies , this guy is NOT union , NOT elected , I guess H&S company Officer would be the correct title. My bad.

 

[nuggets]

so whats the situation ?? how are peeps risking losing finger,s ?? without compromising your identity /company!! what machine,s are you using ?? can,t you fit a gaurd to protect yourself and others ??

 

[Mesquite]

My apologies , this guy is NOT union , NOT elected , I guess H&S company Officer would be the correct title. My bad.

That explains why he doesn't seem to be doing much. He advise's the company managers as to what's needed but at the end of the day it's only advice and they can choose to ignore it if they wish but at their perill especially when a good solicitor gets all the paperwork.

 

[TeeDee]

Not even a machinery issue , which as far as im concerned makes it worse! The problem sounds trivial , and is ( really ) , but could cost someone their fingers.
Its just paperwork Control racking ( Lots of it ) which has been semi fixed in a dangerous manner on the walls that when it requires moving can then have the possibily of being dropped and trapping fingers. Its an issue of something mostly inactive and inert becoming dangerous due to the smallest amount of action.
The farce is that we employ full time tradespeople that are not related to our direct 'bread and butter' business for estate managment and repair,so they will get paid the same regardless of job or task.
To rectify would cost material wise, say less then £500 , the time for labour is already covered , if someone does lose and finger and going for the legal claim route how much would that be £xxxx's???

Guess I just frustrated with people, that on a less family friendly forum i would describe as something thats sounds very similiar to "Duck-Mitts"....

 

[nuggets]

Not even a machinery issue , which as far as im concerned makes it worse! The problem sounds trivial , and is ( really ) , but could cost someone their fingers.
Its just paperwork Control racking ( Lots of it ) which has been semi fixed in a dangerous manner on the walls that when it requires moving can then have the possibily of being dropped and trapping fingers. Its an issue of something mostly inactive and inert becoming dangerous due to the smallest amount of action.
The farce is that we employ full time tradespeople that are not related to our direct 'bread and butter' business for estate managment and repair,so they will get paid the same regardless of job or task.
To rectify would cost material wise, say less then £500 , the time for labour is already covered , if someone does lose and finger and going for the legal claim route how much would that be £xxxx's???

Guess I just frustrated with people, that on a less family friendly forum i would describe as something thats sounds very similiar to "Duck-Mitts"....

what we talking about here ?? peeps slamming draws on there fingers or half ton reams crushing them ???

 

[Challenger]

What you have described unfortunately is not uncommon, companies do not always understand their legal duties under both civil and criminal law, and will put cost before safety. It is possible that the managers do not want to hear the H & S officer advise or he as given the wrong advise and the managers might feel that they do not need to act. The racking is covered under PUWER and must be safe for use. There should be a risk assessment for the use of the racking, identifying all the signifcant risks, any body using the racking should have access to the risk assessment, which should have been reviewed following the accidents.

Unfortunately you are correct it will probably take someone to lose a finger before they will act, and only after being taken to court for a civil claim, most of these costs are paid by the insurance company. The HSE have limited resources and will only act if they have been made aware of any incidents. I am lucky I work for a large company in a regulated industry that does take H & S seriously, which makes my job a lot easier.

 

[nuggets]

can anyone tell me !! Has china got all these H+S regulations as well ?? just so they can compete on `our` level playing field ????????-snigger !!!