Advice to Newbie on Bushcraft Knife purchase

Jedadiah

Native
Jan 29, 2007
1,349
1
Northern Doghouse
Hi,
as it says in the title, i'm new to the scene and after extensive research am now prepared to buy a Knife (HurraH!)

Could i ask you for the benifit of your experience and wisdom?

On a budget of approx £100, i think i may go down the Fallkniven route (other recommendations more than welcome) but have some questions.

1. The models i am looking at are the F1 with micarta handle, or the S1. I cant help but think that the S1 may be too big and i'm not sure about the spear point blade profile. Also, could the F1 be too small and what are the advantages of a Micarta handle?

2 They are descrbed as having a 'convex ground edge. Is this going to be a problem when i come to maintain the cutting edge?

3. As the blade seems to be made out of VG steel (Very good?) what would be the best method of maintaining it (whetstone, oil stone, strop?).

4. If anyone has experience of these knives or viable alternatives, please could they explain the positives and negatives, however, please remember, i am a newbie and am still not 100% familiar with 'Jargon' (although i'm not an idiot, though some might say 22 years in the forces hints otherwise!)

Can i also say, it's been very enlightening and amusing reading the posts on this forum and it's what made me make the jump into this field(!)
 

Bushcraft4life

Full Member
Dec 31, 2006
868
6
Rochester, Kent
Buy a MORA mate. Fabulous knife and a great starting point for a newbie. I am guessing by your thread that you have not had a knife before now. £100 for a first knife is silly because say you damage it due to lack of experience you are going to feel p***ed off.

But if you are stubborn like myself :D you may want to check out this bushcraft knife on outdoorcode

http://outdoorcode.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_23_24&products_id=635

It looks a fabulous knife and i would start there and plus the guy who runs outdoorcode is really helpful and a member of this site so maybe you should look him up. :D
 

singteck

Settler
Oct 15, 2005
565
6
52
Malaysia
www.flickr.com
I use to lush after an F1 or a H1 but now that I have the chance to hold one in my hand, I would never buy any of them. The blade is 4mm thick!!!!! Looks strong but I can never use it for kitchen work. Any knife that can't slice an apple is useless to me.

But if I want a knife to pry open a safe then the F1 would be the first one I reach for........ if I don't have a crow bar.

YMMV

singteck
 

Ed

Admin
Admin
Aug 27, 2003
5,977
38
51
South Wales Valleys
Start with something cheap like a mora for now ;) get some expierence at using the knife for everything (woodcarving to food prep) and you will have a better idea of the sort of knife you may want to get in the future. Also unless you have had alot of practice at sharpening and taking care of your blade, you dont want to shell out £100 as you'll only end up with a blunt, corroded knife not much good for anything :( .... you wont mind killing a £10 knife.... call it a learning curve.

:D
Ed
 

oetzi

Settler
Apr 25, 2005
813
2
64
below Frankenstein castle
Yep, get a cheap one. It will serve as good as ther most expensive one.
And you will really use/abuse it as it should be with a knife without worrying about scratches, breaking or simply loosing it.
Plus, you can spend the balance on a weekend trip or course.
For example, I work in an outdoor shop and can get lots of knives of many brands wholesale from here http://www.herbertz-messerclub.de/
Click on the left on "alle Hersteller" or "alle Messermacher"to get an impression.
Still, my favourite as far as overall performance and value-for-money is concerned, are these:
http://www.herbertz-messerclub.de/shop.php?Article=702
http://www.herbertz-messerclub.de/shop.php?Article=701
But I wouldnt dream of trying to sell them in the shop. Not fancy enough.
 

Ed

Admin
Admin
Aug 27, 2003
5,977
38
51
South Wales Valleys
I collected some good threads here to help you find the right direction -
Knives for Newbies!
Thats a good collection of threads you have there :D Maybe you should get one of the staff to make that thread a sticky so it's easier for folks to find.

:)
Ed
 

sam_acw

Native
Sep 2, 2005
1,081
10
42
Tyneside
I was kinding of intending it as the start of a sticky - there seems to be a 1st knife thread on here most weeks but I only went back a couple of months. There are other good threads going back further.
 

Jedadiah

Native
Jan 29, 2007
1,349
1
Northern Doghouse
I did'nt expect so many replies so quickly! Thank you all for taking the time to send me your sage words of wisdom. Just to clarify a few points, i have had many knives before (i bought a Chris Reeve Jereboam from Silvermans in the late '80's when i was at Catterick). I've had MoD survival knives, Cold Steel, Buck, Gerber and even a Sykes Faibairn (dont ask, it was issued) but, to be honest, they may have been handy/shiny/gucci (delete as applicable) and when i was single i must admit i had more money than sense (anyone else). I have limited experience of survival training, but i feel (rightly or wrongly) that survival is a different bucket of frogs to bushcraft, and i say that as a fresh faced 37 year-old new to the scene.

In my life i have found out time and time again that the quality of equipment is usually in direct relation to price (to a certain point!). In the Forces today a lot of the equipment is procured down to a price rather than up to a standard. In my experience, things usually fail you when you need them most (shoe laces, body armour etc).

I usually do a lot of research into anything and everything I Intend to purchase so as to ensure i get the most suitable, most reliable and the sexiest looking (goddamit) available in my price range.

I can 'aquire' some useful items from work, but i have been told the second most useful thing in bushcraft is a good knife (the first being the wobbly grey thing between your ears!) Both items must be used properly and i do listen to experience and very much appreciate your advice.

Next question, Frost Mora, Which Model? Are they available with a wooden handle (what is the advantage or is it objective?) or am i going to have to learn how to make one?

Keep this advice coming peeps, i love good intel!
 
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TheGreenMan

Native
Feb 17, 2006
1,000
8
beyond the pale
Hello Jed,

This may seem a little odd to some, but I’m actually going to try and answer the questions that you have asked (weird, or what? :)).

Jedadiah said:
...1. The models i am looking at are the F1 with micarta handle, or the S1. I cant help but think that the S1 may be too big and i'm not sure about the spear point blade profile. Also, could the F1 be too small and what are the advantages of a Micarta handle?...

The F1 is a nice sized knife for general purpose use (remember, the F1 is a lightweight aviator's survival knife, and not a bushcraft knife per se). The Thermorun handle is meant to prevent ‘freeze injuries’ (hence no metal parts on the handle) in extreme sub-zero temperatures, as those found in Artic winter conditions, and when using the knife without gloves (you would be doing this for minutes only in these conditions, as frostbite could result in 'pretty short order'). The handle has a chequered pattern on it to improve grip with cold and/or wet hands, or indeed underwater (a really bad combo of circumstances in sub-zero temperatures), a lot of bushcrafters find that under temperate conditions, and without gloves, the chequering can produce blisters on soft skin, with prolonged use. A lot of bushcrafters don’t like the thickness of the blade at the cutting edge as it tends not to bite as deep into wood as other kinds of edge grind.

The Mircarta handled F1 will be a lot more comfortable during prolonged use.

Jargon fact: the F1 blade shape at the tip is called a ‘drop point’.

The S1 is designed to be used for working with wood. The arcs of the convex grind form a more acute edge than the F1, and will bite deeper into wood and so is more suited to whittling. You still have the problem though of potential blisters with prolonged use if you have hands that are as soft as a nun’s bum.

Jargon fact: the S1 blade shape at the tip is called a ‘clip point’ (not a spear point)

In summery, the handle of the Micarta F1 will be more comfortable than the handle of the Thermorun S1 when using for prolonged periods, and if you have soft skin.

The longer blade of the S1 may be advantageous when batoning wood.

My personal solution to this dilemma would be to buy an S1 blade (blade only) and make and fit a handle of your own preference and choice. Obviously, if you don’t have soft skin, then there is no dilemma.

Jedadiah said:
...2 They are descrbed as having a 'convex ground edge. Is this going to be a problem when i come to maintain the cutting edge?...

The convex edge is very easy to keep sharp if you know the right technique. The convex grind worries a lot of people. It worried me when I bought my first convex. I find it the easiest of all grinds to sharpen freehand (along with the Nordic grind).

Jedadiah said:
...3. As the blade seems to be made out of VG steel (Very good?) what would be the best method of maintaining it (whetstone, oil stone, strop?)...

Peter Hjortberger at Fällkniven recommends Arkansas stones or the Fällkniven Diamond/Ceramic Whetstones (DC3/DC4).

I use the DC4 for all of mine, and for all other blades including axes, machetes, Goloks, Mora knives, and blades made from 01 tool steel, various types of stain resistant steel, to great effect. Just follow the instructions on the back of the DC4 box, to get you going. And the more you practice with the Whetstone the more you will learn and refine your sharpening technique.

A leather strop, I have discovered (in the past couple of weeks), is superb way of putting a very sharp edge on a knife. I would recommend using the strop after the ceramic side of the DC4 (don’t use the diamond side of the DC4 unless you have chipped the edge of the blade – unlikely with normal use). The common misconception about sharpening a knife is that you have to remove a lot of metal. All you need to do is polish the edge smooth with the ceramic side of the Whetstone. The more polished it is at the edge the sharper it will be.

Jargon fact: VG-10 is a stain resistant steel (no ‘stainless’ steel is ever totally stainless, it can only resist staining to a greater or lesser degree) that was developed for easier sharpening. Some stain resistant steels can be difficult and time consuming to sharpen due to the toughness of the metal. VG-10 is both tough and easy to sharpen.

Best tip ever: buy a loupe so you can see what is happening at the cutting edge of a blade. There is a lot more happening than you can see with the naked eye.


Jedadiah said:
...4. If anyone has experience of these knives or viable alternatives, please could they explain the positives and negatives, however, please remember, i am a newbie and am still not 100% familiar with 'Jargon'...

Other knives worthy of consideration (and some close to your budget :))

Bush Knife:
http://www.jls-wednesbury.org/id52.html
Paul Baker:
http://www.bushmanuk.co.uk/index.html
Dave Budd:
http://www.davebuddknives.homestead.com/Bushcraft.html
Steve Cox:
http://swc-handmade-knives.com/
Nick Johnson:
http://www.knivesbynick.co.uk/custom_knives.htm
Mike Keogh:
http://www.mikesknives.co.uk/3.html
Mick Spain:
http://msknives.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/
Mick Wardell:
http://www.wardellsknifesupplies.com/

Moras:

Frosts SL-1 Laminated carbon steel blade. It comes with either a plastic sheath which is good for neck or belt wearing, or a Scandinavian type leather sheath. The blade is a little under 3mm thick, which is the thickest blade of this type that Frost’s make). By the way, it has an unfinished birch handle, which is nice if you would like to put your own finish on the handle.

Frosts 780 Triflex modified carbon steel blade. This is a useful choice because it has an ambidextrous sheath. Also I notice that it has a thicker blade than the carbon/stainless/military options (Known as the 740, 760 and 760MG respectively) and it’s thicker than the Clipper.
Jargon fact: the Triflex steel has a differential temper, meaning the edge is tougher than the rest of the blade, so you get the benefit of a hard cutting edge with a flexible knife.

Moraknife 711 Laminated carbon steel blade. This has a very comfortable grip should you need to use it continuously for several hours, and it has a handle that is suited to larger hands. The standard colour is black, but it can be obtained with a green handle and sheath (711G). Again, at just under 3mm, it’s the thickest blade that Mora of Sweden make of this type (The green ones I own, have the makers name as K J Eriksson on them - K J Eriksson are now known as Mora of Sweden). There is also a stainless option available.

By the way, I was whittling some seasoned birch a few weeks ago, and it chipped and rolled the edge of a Clipper very badly. Won’t be buying another one.

Hope this helps :)

Best regards,
Paul.
 

Dougster

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 13, 2005
5,254
238
The banks of the Deveron.
For that sort of money you could have one made to your specification by someone here or on British Blades.

I started off with a Mora to learn how to sharpen and it made a bit difference ruining that one to my £60 one.

Now I'm making my own more expensive ones.
 

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