Advice on buying First Defender

[86inch]

Ooh that Patrol is nice!
I ran Land Rivers of all types for 20 years, sometimes as primary car (90/110/Discovery) and sometimes as toys. Our last one was a 110 300tdi but I finally chucked my toys out of the pram when it let us down a bit in France. I vowed at the time to sell it and buy a Patrol or Land Cruiser. I opted for the Patrol and haven't looked back - its fabulous.... We have a 2005 Y61 3.0 SVE

 

[cranmere]

I like the idea of Land Rovers but I like the reliability of my Subaru Forester. It's remarkably competent over rough terrain, much more comfortable than a Defender, not too bad for servicing costs, thirsty on fuel consumption but that's partly because I have the 2.5l turbo engine and it goes like the proverbial brown stuff of a shovel even when it's full of camping gear and diving kit.

 

[Imagedude]

4x4s are an expensive hobby. My Toyota had major issues with the sump rusting through, the radiator failing and many suffer with a fragile gearbox, fortunately mine did not suffer from the injector seal issues. Being a mechanic I managed to nursemaid 180,000 motorway miles out of it. Friends with auto Landcruisers would get no more than 70,000 miles before pipes in the box would crack causing the box to fail. I know several people who had various Mitsubishi vehicles, all had major issues at around five years old. One had a major engine failure at 26000 miles, apparently they over tightened the big ends for a few years and the fault manifested about the same time as the vehicle warranty ended. Nissan had similar issues with their rear axles. My Defender has numerous faults but is 23 years old and mostly keeps on going. The engine was changed from a petrol to a 300TDi and mated to a R380 gearbox. The best Defenders tend to be the 200/300TDi and TD5 models. I had a Jeep in Oman and that didn't fare too well, no major failures but there was always something that needed sorting. I did try to buy a new Fourtrak a few years back only to find out that production had ceased five years earlier! 70'series Landcruisers were OK and Toyota are still dining out on their reputation. They make good money as the new ones aren't cut from the same cloth.
If I was buying new I'd try and find a Lada Niva!

 

[slowworm]

That's what puts me off buying a nearly new modern 4x4, I've also heard a few horror stories about them and they would be very hard to fix yourself. I currently run an old Ford 4x4 and parts and DIY instructions are very hard to find, which would also put me off buying another rare old 4x4.

I'm also considering a Defender, but an old 200/300TDi, that I can work on easily and get parts and help with. For something like £10k I've wondered if I could get a good example and get some of the common problem areas sorted by a good independent garage. A bit of a pipe dream at the moment.

 

[peaks]

Nivas are brill - if you get a good one. I posted this in a similar thread last year......


The Lada Niva/Cossack was brilliant...............as long as you got one that wasn't assembled and QA checked by an Ivan on a Friday after shifting the home brew for the rest of the week........

Had a Cossack from new. When it ran it was amazing. Most of the time it was having something fixed - like the master cylinder for the brakes or being resprayed cos the paint was peeling. Fiat running gear, diff lock, low ratio box and could be tweaked. The heater was more than capable of dealing with Siberian winters. Put Landrovers to shame ( and I've had a few of those).
Best avoided

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lada_Niva

 

[Dogoak]

I'd look for a Land Cruiser.

Seriously, if you are a competent mechanic and welder can do the maintenance yourself, then Defenders make some sense, otherwise, it doesn't.

Very wise words indeed, over the years I 've owned most makes, love Landys, had a couple, good off road, iconic looks etc; but never again!
Like a lot of 4x4's, Patrols used to be good, I've owned 3 and in my experience the build quality has gone down.

My recommendation would be the same as Red, Land Cruiser, 80 or 100 series. (had to sell my 80 and it was the biggest vehicle regret of my life).

Your best bet would be to take a test drive in any possible options and take it from there.

If you want a short wheel base, Jeep Wrangler, reliable, powerful, doors and roof come off and the screen folds down, most fun vehicle I 've ever owned

 

[Trojan]

The best day is the day I bought my 110 XS and the second best day was the day I sold it!

 

[nuggets]

have had my 110 crew cab defender TD 5 for 7 years and never had any trouble apart from the fuel regulator £100 fix

and they hold there prices very well against other foreign 4x4,s also i heard they are going to stop producing the defender at the end of this year so the prices should remain good

 

[sandbender]

This my old girl...

...her name was Tess.

 

[Dave]

My god you were tall back then.

Im taking Bobs advice. Jap motors can go wrong, and as ssloworm says if your paying that much more from a reputable dealer, hopefuly youll be less likely to ecounter the more common problems experienced.
Plus, IMO most of them look bloody ugly next to the defender. If I had the coin Id stretch to a volvo xc70, but dont.

 

[sandbender]

"...My god you were tall back then..."

High heels.

"...Im taking Bobs advice. Jap motors can go wrong, and as ssloworm says if your paying that much more from a reputable dealer, hopefuly youll be less likely to ecounter the more common problems experienced.
Plus, IMO most of them look bloody ugly next to the defender..."

Go on, you'll love it...

...and then you won't.

 

[andyxedos]

i've had a 2007 Suzuki grand vitara (new shape) for a year. Seems a pretty capable motor but i haven't done any serious off-roading in it. Mines petrol as i heard there has been loads of issues with the diesel so i only get between 28-30 mpg...not the most refined car but has plenty of go and cheap insurance and seems fairly easy to work on

 

[Bluebs4]

Dave youll be better off getting knobblys for your cycle.

 

[Laurentius]

There is a way of looking at things. Landrover parts are easy to find and they are easy to repair, but the likelihood of you needing a repair is considerable
Japanese parts are hard to find and expensive but the likelihood you will need them is much less than if you own a landrover. This is something I found out the hard way.

Basically a landrover series or defender is a copy of a jeep without the quality control, whereas something like my Pajero is an improvement on a Jeep and lots of quality control.

If Landrover had built everything with a galvanised chassis and frame from the start and had a decent engine, yes Landrover all the way, but they didn't did they?

 

[Dave]

How come the defender has been the go to vehicle for our forces, and major expeditions for the last sixty years?

 

[Laurentius]

Another thing I would suggest is that landrovers are overpriced for what they are. I paid just under a grand for my current pajero, and I got a lot for my money. There is plenty to be had for rock bottom prices if you forget about the green oval.

 

[Laurentius]

How come the defender has been the go to vehicle for our forces, and major expeditions for the last sixty years?

As far as the forces go I would say lack of common sense and a hankering for tradition. As for expeditions, well if you consider it, an expedition lasts a matter of months not a matter of years, long term durability is not the issue.

 

[rorymax]

I seem to have double posted, sorry.

 

[rorymax]

How come the defender has been the go to vehicle for our forces, and major expeditions for the last sixty years?

The Defender (American saying I think) was, the best out of the box 4x4.

In saying that, it is a dinosaur in so many ways, it was never developed much more than to be anything other than what it was, and yes, it was very good.

Dave, the military do not concern themselves with cost, money is (rightly so) inconsequential when you have an imperative objective to achieve.

Much as I would like to praise Land Rover, the fact is that Land Rover failed to develop a formidable product, the product was milked (and in a sort of way still is) to death.

As a 4x4, the Land Rover is a 3rd rate vehicle, how long has it been since the once incredible Range Rover parted with live axles and true off road capability.

The Nissan Patrol as used by many forces is a superior overall vehicle, out of date, but used in great numbers by many forces, it is without some megabytes of engine management systems etc, therein lies one of it's attributes.

Limited slip electronically controlled differentials and Abs systems and a host of other off-road electronic enhancements simply do not cut it in real terms.

This illustrates the reason that the humble Citroen 2Cv has gained positive remark in associated discussions.

Compared to the new Range Rover Evoque, the 2CV would be a ground breaking achievement in off-road ability, a comment that I never thought that I would make.

I wish it were not the case, but as an off-road vehicle, Land Rover is not worth consideration anymore, more's the pity.

I owned and enjoyed Land Rovers, I should have given up on them long before I eventually did, it almost seemed like a betrayal of heritage in doing so, but better to face the truth than endear a false ideal.

rorymax

 

[cbr6fs]

Limited slip electronically controlled differentials and Abs systems and a host of other off-road electronic enhancements simply do not cut it in real terms.

This illustrates the reason that the humble Citroen 2Cv has gained positive remark in associated discussions.

Compared to the new Range Rover Evoque, the 2CV would be a ground breaking achievement in off-road ability, a comment that I never thought that I would make.

I've driven both a 2cv and a evoque off-road so feel i can comment here.

Sure the evoque is no off-road demon, but we put ours through a fair bit of abuse and it was pretty good.
The standard OEM tyres are terrible on anything other than tarmac, but with some off-road tyres fitted it did 75% of what the defenders did.

ABS isn't really a problem on all but the most extreme off-roading as if your touching the brakes while descending your doing it wrong anyways.

The 2CV is the worst car i have ever driven, as i'm driving different cars all the time that's a fair old cross section to pick from as well.
It handles like a pram on jelly, it's slow to point of being dangerous, it's second only to burning parachute in safety, they don't even go well off-road, they're ok on hard packed rough ground (mainly because the suspension is so soft it makes melted butter seem like an anvil) through any mud at it though and unless you've got paddles for tyres it's not going anywhere, even with paddle tyres you soon run out of ground clearance.


Best bet is to sit down and work out what the car is for.
If it's going to be used mainly on the road and your not the type that enjoys laying under cars having hot oil drip on your head then a defender is not the car for you, it's second only to the 2CV for being one of the worst cars on the road.

IF on t'other hand it's going to be used mainly off-road then it's a better choice.
If you plan on taking ANY car off-road often though you really really really need to start doing your own spannering though, cause things break and fall off on a regular basis when off-roading.