Adding PLCE side pockets to hiking rucksack

[Clickhappy]

@Alan De Enfield thanks for sharing your kit list, really interesting.

@C_Claycomb those pouches look great, I don't really want to destroy my pack but I do have a friend with an industrial sewing machine whose used it to make boat sails. Once the pouches arrive I'll take a look to see if there is any way that they can fit around the front zip. The idea of fitting one to the lid is really interesting, I'll check out the link.

@Erbswurst thanks for all the information, I really appreciate it. Going to order one of those ponchos. I have an osprey dry bag I'm going to try as a pillow with a fleece in it.

@Janne you are almost certainly right regarding just getting a bag that is the right size rather than trying to modify and risk the pack falling apart in use. Also I certainly do take too much kit, need more practice to know what I can leave at home. Adding trousers to the pillow bundle sounds good.

Thanks all for your suggestions, looking forward to getting out and about with more organisation and less bulk.

 

[MartinK9]

Extra pouches can always be added:

Berghaus (9) by martin smith, on Flickr

 

[Janne]

Imo:
By design, a 35 liters backpack is low, top to bottom. Adding volume side to side will (obviously) not add any height.

If you add volume, you will add weight (= add more stuff).

If the hip belt sits properly on the hips, then the top of the backpack will end at lower neck line. ( This with or without extra side pockets).
The shoulder straps will run from the shoulders slightly down towards the bag.
This is ok as the 35L sack can not be made heavy, but increase the volume (+ weight) will make it very uncomfortable.

The function of shoulderstraps is to prevent the bag tipping to the rear. Light bag - not much tipping force.
Of course, if you walk for a few hundred meters or a kilometer or two, it does not matter, but if you walk 30+ km a day in hilly terrain it will.

There is a reason large volume backpacks get the volume from adding height and not width.
If you want to add volume to an expedition backpack you add extra volume on the top, even on a shelf above your head ( for heavy stuff) and bottom, for lighter stuff.

Chrck out old Kelty expedition backpacks online, with the external frame and top shelf.

 

[Erbswurst]

My less convincing slippy pillow is an Osprey 6 ltr dry bag.
Inside the bivvy bag it should work.

Jannes way to do it works too of course. But if you don't have much stuff in the summer to use it as a pillow I prefere using a bag as a pillow, which holds it together.

Different to the Berghaus rucksacks in the photo your rucksack isn't constructed to add such side pouches. I would be very surprised if that would work satisfying.

In my opinion you should open a new thread where you ask about big rucksacks that use this system. Most of us have a small rucksack for summer use and a large rucksack for winter use.
Perhaps you can get a used big rucksack very cheap somewhere.
I agree, that this large side pouches look very interesting.

To add volume to your own pack you should try to attach some straps to put a dry bag on top of it where fits your sleeping bag in.
That is an option, but not the best way in the world.

I do that only if I suddenly get unexpected load in my rucksack, for example much food, if there are some free days with closed shops or if I come along somewhere at a nice hidden surplus shop with rare interesting stuff.
;0)

I don't know your age, but the idea to add that pouches to your bag looks to me a bit like a fault, young people often tend to.

They don't understand the point and try to connect things, that don't fit together. That's a tipical beginners fault.

It's important to understand the whole system, not to look at a single point.

Even if you invest thousands of Pounds you can't make a Porsche from a Dacia.

Experienced people simply buy an old BMW, and it's fine how it is.

You can get such a rucksack you want for round about 100£ or even far less in the surplus shops.
Why don't you buy such a large pack additional to your summer rucksack, an it's fine?

If You try to attach the side pouches to your pack you will loose very fast 5 hours and 50 £ for material. The result isn't convincing.
With the same investment you get a second rucksack from the surplus shop!

I don't have a second calculator, so I can't count together the weight of your stuff.
Please tell me the result of the addition.

If it isn't to much, perhaps the German Army Flecktarn Rucksack 65 litres would be an option for you. It costs only 40€ used and is often sold in perfect conditions. But it has no hip belt and so it is meant for light stuff only.

But there are very cheap Dutch and British rucksacks on the market too! And some have hip belts and use the PLCE system.

 

[Erbswurst]

Grade 1 available for 40 £

Does any body know this pack?

http://www.endicotts.co.uk/content/british-infantry-long-back-rucksack-olive

 

[Erbswurst]

That's smaller and probably the better idea.

http://www.endicotts.co.uk/content/dutch-gen-2-c-sting-rucksack-dpm

 

[Clickhappy]

That's smaller and probably the better idea.

http://www.endicotts.co.uk/content/dutch-gen-2-c-sting-rucksack-dpm

This looks ideal, and PLCE pouches fit it.

 

[Erbswurst]

In my opinion you should call them and ask if it fits to your body size, and if it fits just buy it.
I would take "grade 1" because that's usually the better deal, I expect it being as good as new, because the material lasts for decades even in heavy use.

Should it not convince you in the long run, usually such a pack can be sold for the same price you bought it.

If you open an own thread about it, you probably find someone who can tell you something about it.

I would ask them if they have the side pouches in the fitting colour. They should be cheap too.

It is a nice idea to have 4 of them with different content for different adventures, so one would have just to change the pouches.
But I never really thought about if that works in reality. Perhaps it's a stupid idea.

Ask them if your pouches really fit!

 

[Erbswurst]

With 55 liters it has the size Janne recommended.
Janne is Swedish and lived in Britain. Probably he knows better than me, what's optimal in UK.

Because the pouches have 10 liters each, you reach 75 litres and can attach another flat pouch of 5 litres to the MOLLE straps if needed.

In my opinion 80 litres is enough of space in the UK in winter times, if you collect light and compact equipment instead of buying everything in the surplus shop.

And in my opinion 80 litres of food and equipment are heavy enough.
If you want to carry more, you need real training to do it.

 

[Janne]

Used to live in UK.
The bushcrafting I did there differed a lot from what I did in Sweden.
Much less trekking, more short walks and stationary.
Less equipment needed, as it is much warmer.

A good way to practice and prepare the body is to take long walks on foot paths with increasingly heavy rucksacks. Fill it with waterbottles.

If you discover after 5 hours you get aches somewhere, just empty the water and lighten the load.

 

[Erbswurst]

Is the weather in Coventry like in Hannover, just with a bit more rain?
Or is it windy and rainy and cold like in Oslo?

I looked this rucksack up at another homepage.
You have to know, that the weight with side pouches is 3400g.

That is a bomb proof rucksack made from 1000den Cordura Nylon, constructed for airplane transport too, good for international traveling, and lasts a life time.

But the German Army Rucksack 65 litres, 40€, is made from the same material, weights only 1400g !!!

It has no hip belt and is less good if you want to carry food for several days, saw and axe.
But if you pack after my list it should be OK.

3400 g empty is half the weight of my rucksack in three season use full!!!
(Exclusuve water and food)

What is optimal for you really depends of your body size and fitness, and what you mainly want to do with it.

The Dutch is perfect for going a relatively short distance in the wood in cold conditions with a bit extra toys like axe and potatoes and barbecue grill and folding bow saw and lots of water and extra cordage and extra large tarp, and a polish lavvu and a warmer jacket and a cotton smock to stay there and play in a camp with some friends.

The German 65 litres rucksack would be better if you pack after my list and go with a minimal kit for long distance trekking and stealth camping from evening to morning and breakfast just at the next place half an hour later, dehydrated food, gas kitchen use. Fast and long distance.

 

[Erbswurst]

Here are a few others

https://www.militarymart.co.uk/rucksack/

 

[Erbswurst]

https://m.asmc.de/bw-kampfrucksack-flecktarn-gebraucht

This is the original 65 litres German army rucksack. 1000 den Cordura nylon , 1400g

They usually come in nearly new conditions. ( If you see it new, it is a bad copy, you should take the used original!)

The PU lining of the snow flap usually is destroyed, but that doesn't matter just take and throw it away. The main flap has a perfect fit and is waterproof enough.

Between lower compartment and main compartment is a fabric wall, closed by a draw string. You can easily open or close it, depending of what you want to put in it.
Zipp pouch under the visible pouch on the flap, zipper towards the person, (not so easy to steal from it like at the Berghaus Munro.)
Inner compartment to the back of the person must be filled with German Army folding mat, 425g, exists only in used conditions, new ones are bad copies. The mat costs round about 15 € and you should buy it with the rucksack.

https://m.asmc.de/BW-Isomatte-faltbar-gebraucht

In the side poches fit easily every 1 litre plastic bottle from the supermarket, the shape of it doesn't matter.

(In the top pocket fits perfectly the Decathlon Solognac Organizer S, where fit perfectly in Copmass Silva Ranger SL, Petzl e-lite head torch, washing line 2mm, Esbit titanium folding spoon and fork, and other small stuff, like Aspirin, Micropour forte, spare batteries, sewing kit or what ever you need.)

The rucksack is constructed to attach a NATO winter sleeping bag in a dry bag on top of the flap.

It is no problem to attach there the complete Snugpak Special Forces sleeping System.

But if you do that, the rucksack without proper hip belt comes to its borders.
This is constructed for light equipment!
It is strong enough to carry heavy load, but then it becomes uncomfortable. The army caries heavy equipment additional at the seperate webbing belt!
But if you use mainly modern civil light and compact equipment, it's no problem to use this pack and put some extra warm layers and a warm sleeping bag in it.

If you connect the upper buckles with the lower ones, the rucksack can be compressed to the size of a day pack, let's say 35 litres. If you do it like that, the flap over the zipper of the zipped inner pouch in the main flap is orientated in the wrong direction if you tighten the webbing. Here water could enter in heavy rain, but I never got this problem.

It is very very nice to use it as a day pack on a longer journey and suddenly open it to a full size trekking rucksack for the little adventure in between. Just a plastic bag of food from the supermarket on top of the well chosen ultra compact equipment in the day pack and ready to go in the wilderness for a couple of days!

I think, fully compressed and with empty pouches it's allowed as hand luggage in most airlines, something that should be interesting to Inselaffen.
But if you pull every webbing as tight as possible and wrap the ends tight around and fix everything as tight as possible it survives the automatic transportation system of airports as well.

Best Regards and with love from Germany
;0)

 

[Janne]

If you do very short walking, you can use anything, even Waitrose and Lidl bags.

Also, everything depends on the shape and size of your body.
Most of hose vintage/antique backpacks were designed before WW2, or copied a such design.
People were shorter. Had shorter back.

I have had the dubious [pleasure of having to use the (oldfashioned) 35 LK for training sessions up to 2 days.
I was 180 cm in those days, and suffered. I have a long torso

So, somebody having a short torso or is generally speaking 'short' might find those fairly comfortable.

 

[Erbswurst]

No, Janne, this rucksack here is the old Bundeswehr mountain troop rucksack (in the last version in Cordura nylon) that I use. That's the 34 litres rucksack I wrote about in the beginning.

http://www.endicotts.co.uk/content/german-gen-3-mountain-pack-mid-olive

This rucksack has a short back and I mainly can use it well, because it weights full less than 6kg plus 1,5 litres of water and some compact food. I am 185 cm tall.

The 65 litres Flecktarn rucksack is the newer version, constructed in the late eighties, and it has a long back. It's made for people between 175 and 185 cm or something like that. I think, people who are 190 cm tall also have no problems with it.

..........


Yes, my first idea was that he tries to reduce his stuff so long until it fits in the rucksack he owns!

I think, he should use it in the summer for hiking and buy another one for cold weather.

 

[Janne]

Ah!
I am getting confused, so many backpacks looking so similar....

I am waiting for somebody to replicate the Coleman polymer frame.
The most comfortable frame I have ever used.

 

[Clickhappy]

Is the weather in Coventry like in Hannover, just with a bit more rain?
Or is it windy and rainy and cold like in Oslo?

I looked this rucksack up at another homepage.
You have to know, that the weight with side pouches is 3400g.

Coventry is more like a rainy Hanover.

Wow that is a heavy rucksack, I'll stick with my current bag for this summer.

 

[Janne]

Sounds like his Turkish friend he met in Ankara packed it for him before he flew home....
3.4 kilos is incredibly heavy for any size backpack.

 

[Erbswurst]

Yes, BUT all the PLCE system rucksacks have that weight!
(Or am I wrong?)

Essl produces relatively light Rucksacks.
Designed in Austria, made in Chech Republik, allowed to use but not issued in the Austrian Army.

In this 40 litres rucksack fit 1,5 litres plastic bottles from the supermarket in the side pouches, the third outer pouch is made for the Austrian/Dutch/German mess kit. Additional pouches in flap and hip belt.

Integrated rain cover.

40 litres - 1650g

I don't own it, but it will be the next I buy.

http://army-warehouse.com/essl-rucksacke/1055-essl-ru5026-kaderrucksack-40l-oliv.html

Only 80 € for the NEW rucksack!

 

[Erbswurst]

Different cut, different material, different quality, different price, different Idea.

One of the lightes 50 litres rucksacks at the world market in the sensible price segment:

Decathlon Solognac x-acess 50 litres.

1000g without rain cover (60g)
30£ NEW, 2 years warranty.

It probably will not last a life time, but it is pretty tough. It has a surprisingly thin fabric.

The X-access system is mostly compatible with the MOLLE system.

It has a zipp pouch in the flap they forgot in the description.

Designed for persons between 175 and 185 cm.

In the price included is an orange rain cover, that is needed in heavy rain to protect the side pouches.

It would be a good Idea to add a few little eyelets in the side pouches to drain them, because it rains in there if you have bottles in there.
That's a French product, and they count with good hunting weather!

It's made to carry such a sleeping bag you sit in if you wait for the deer, I don't know the English word for it.

That means you can use it with a light equipment. It isn't made to carry it full of beer bottles.
I mean, maximal 10 kg all together are comfortable. Less is of course more comfortable.

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/backpack-50l-20-khaki-id_8382535.html

The very cheap Decathlon 2 persons tent Arpenaz 2 fits exactly between side pouch and flap under the strap or in the rucksack.

The tent weights without pegs only 2 kg and costs only 20£.

It is made in a very good quality but only wind resistant until 40 km/h. That means, it isn't made for open country and mountains, you have to hide it behind a hedge or wall.

But it's absolutely convincing for that low price.
Every French student owns one, I own three of them, and they sell it in France every day like the bakers baguette.

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/arpenaz-2-tent-2-man-green--id_8293539.html