Adder habits

[janeislay]

Can anyone tell me a lot more about adders - the sorts of places they hibernate/have their young ? Are the young able to feed themselves straight away ?

I'm terrified for my little border terrier - there are so many adders about. And we've just lost a foal which may have been bitten.

 

[Night Phoenix]

I would be happy to tell you all you need to know about adders so long as you dont plan to do anything incriminating.
Either way all vets should be trained in how to deal with adder bites and most contain anti-venom

 

[w00dsmoke]

Try this site

http://www.adder.org.uk/

Here is an adder I found last Saturday in the Kilpatrick Hills.

He wasn't happy about getting his pics taken so I left him too it. They are quite rare in these parts.

I wouldn't worry about adders tbh, they keep themselves to themselves and it's quite rare for bites on stock/pets/people. Generally it's not serious but still requirres a vet/hospital visit.


WS

 

[janeislay]

Thanks Woodsmoke - looks an interesting website.

Night Phoenix: I've just lost a three month old foal; the vets are getting an average of four dogs bitten a week and they don't keep antivenom.

A friend has just lost his dog; a Clydesdale horse is seriously ill - fair's fair. The place is hoaching with adders - and I'm terrified now of losing something else. I must live in adder paradise.

 

[alpha_centaur]

an average of four dogs bitten a week and they don't keep antivenom.

If they're getting that number of bites why don't they keep the antivenom?

 

[Night Phoenix]

I have to say i am quite surprised, the vets in my area keep it and more often than not antibiotics to treat it. I am sorry and i will take back what i said if it is so cleerly wrong, i have to admit i am surprised they dont have the facility to deal with it. I am also surprised that you saw so many foals have died from adder bites and i am sorry but a clyesdale having such ill effects from an adder is a bit of a shocker. I would be interested if you sent me more details about the horse as i have an avid interest in herpetoligy and the toxicity of vipers and pit vipers
Adders are however a protected species

 

[janeislay]

We had a yearling bitten years ago; she eventually had to be pts as she had a badly swollen leg which was troublesome. We were darn cross the vets had no antivenom then.

I think they give steroids, anti inflammatories and antibiotics. The Clydesdale belongs to Balivicar Trekking Centre on the Isle of Islay; I'm sure they'd be willing to give you details.

When we first moved here forty years ago, we had horrendous otter problems - losing some £30,000 worth of sea-ducks. We found that although they were protected, we were allowed to protect our stock and shot one in the act. The following night we lost another bird.

So the lesson we learnt was that we couldn't and wouldn't want to kill every otter - therefore we had to find a way to keep them out. (Islay, we found, has one of the highest populations of otters).

Undoubtedly we have an enormous amount of adders here - and yes, we have killed them when they were found outside our back door and my children were very wee.

I think I need to learn a lot more about them, and either avoid certain fields during their active months or put cow bells on all of my ponies !

 

[JonathanD]

I think I need to learn a lot more about them, and either avoid certain fields during their active months or put cow bells on all of my ponies !

That'll be no good, the little fellas are deaf They will stay well out of the way of ponies though due to their strong footfall causing vibrations which scare adders off. So you need not worry too much, encounters do happen, but are very very rare.

 

[janeislay]

Oh dear ! And what if my foalie is asleep - then wakes up and lifts its neck ? Unsuspecting basking snake will bite in self defence ?

Foals spend a lot of time sleeping.

 

[badgeringtim]

I found this bit intersting;

"When we first moved here forty years ago, we had horrendous otter problems - losing some £30,000 worth of sea-ducks. We found that although they were protected, we were allowed to protect our stock and shot one in the act. The following night we lost another bird."

Firstly as it shows that kiling things probably isnt a answer and secondly since i dont know of a mechanism that 'allows' killing of European Protected Species.
There are measures that can be taken to protect stock but to do anything 'illegal' (and quite a few things are if you are lucky enough to have them around) to EPS you need a licence -and to the best of my knowlage you wont get one to kill them. The Scottish system is slightly different to the English one however so im happy to be corrected!

So i suppose im saying im suprised that you 'found this' and advocating caution.

Its genuinely a shame when there is conflict with the natural and mans activities like this - the natural world tends to fare worst when that happens.

I will try to have a thing of some more practical suggestions though, if your paddocs are very short, or could be managed to be, it could disuade adders from using them so much.

 

[Night Phoenix]

Oh dear ! And what if my foalie is asleep - then wakes up and lifts its neck ? Unsuspecting basking snake will bite in self defence ?

Foals spend a lot of time sleeping.

I think the likelihood is very rare and adders will not be sitting there waiting to bite something. They might not be able to hear but they can definately sense the vibrations of hoofs and they can see, i dont think from an adders point of view that it would be content to snuggle up next to anything of that size.
I think it would be good if you could learn more about adders as there are so many myths wandering around out there that it could get very confusing.
If you want i could put you in touch with one of the foremost adder people in Scotland, if that might put your mind at ease and help you find a solution to your problem?
I agree that it allways seems to be nature that comes of worse in these things and it would be nice if we could find a compromise.
Personally i find the thought of you killing adders quite distressing and i think you should leave it to someone that knows a lot more about the species as a whole, no offence but there are groups you could contact, the british Herpetological Society is one. At the very least i would offer to remove them from the area. If there is such a good population of them where you stay then that may help us in the effort to conserve the species, many could be taken away for breeding programmes or relocation
Take care and i hope things work out.

 

[HeltorChasca]

I was saddened to hear that adders have been killed on your property through such a misunderstood fear of this animal.

I grew up in Africa where venomous snakes are responsible for a number of deaths all the time. Normally treading on them on footpaths while they warm up first thing in the morning. Trust me they don't go out to make intentional contact with humans and large animals. They have no purpose in doing so. Rather than attack the problem by killing the reptiles, people managed their land. Snakes had little reason to be too close to human and animal habitation so plants like bamboo was kept away from houses and paddocks. Livestock feed (and straw) was properly stored so large populations of rodents didn’t become pests and as a secondary issue, the rats and mice didn’t attract snakes.

The last person to die on the British Isles was a small, sickly 6 year old girl about thirty years ago so I am told. I understand small dogs have succumbed to the bites, but I am amazed that such a mild venom could kill something as large as a foal. I would be asking your vet for a thorough autopsy so you can make some rational decisions on how to manage the problem. You may be surprised by the findings.

About 100 people a year are bitten in the UK and I was one of the (rather embarrassing) statistics 2 years ago. My snake handling skills were very rusty, and the snake I was rescuing from a busy road to put back into the heath was quicker on the draw than Annie Oakley. I suffered very mild effects: Small blood blisters around my nose, lips, fingers and toes. My fault, however the snake made it back to the safety of the heather. Not once did I contemplate killing it. There was no anti-venom at the A&E I visited. Maybe not a bad thing as this is often what properly finishes off a serious bite victim thanks to inexperienced medical staff. And let's be honest, you aren't going to find many doctors with oodles of snake bite experience in the UK.

I hope you can carry on living on your land with all its inhabitants, domestic and wild, with some sort of reasonable cohesion. My guess is they could all share a bit of your obvious love for animals.

 

[susi]

I agree that adders are more scared of us, and will prefer to run (wriggle) and hide. I nearly stepped on one last Sunday whilst out walking, was one of the rarer black ones. We have more than usual this year, apaprently due to a growth in the population of bank voles, or so someone told me. About 10 work colleagues have seen them in the last fortnight, a friend shot 3 in his yard during the same period (he has two Suomenpystykorva http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Spitz a dog that tends to die when bitten). During the summer it is quite common for people to sleep in the "aitta" , picture here http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aitta during the summer as it is cooler than indoors. A short time ago one lady was bitten twice on the face by an adder whilst sleeping there). Anyway, the advice in Finland is not to kill them, but the law allows you to if they pose a danger to you and your family (i.e. they keep coming into your garden, or one has crawled into your sleeping bag and is nestled under your armpit )

 

[janeislay]

I am the luckiest person in the world to live where I do and to be able to manage my land as I do - with the interests of the flora and fauna as my priority.

My herd of ponies (kept as naturally as possible) was bought primarily for the good of the choughs - (huge mountainous poos = loads of invertebrates).

It just so happened that I've kept horses all my life and this was a perfect excuse to keep ponies - cross grazed with Hebridean and Icelandic sheep (for meat, milk and wool - for our own use).

I'm a keen birdwatcher and botanist; eat a lot of wild food; we butcher our own sheep, fish for mackerel and cull our deer.

But I do believe we have a duty to protect our livestock; I would never kill anything other than for food or if it had become a major pest with numbers out of control.

Balance is surely the key ? And when our shepherd in the 1970s spent every morning making sure the back yard was clear of adders for my children - what mother would blame him ?