Achieving a 15 Degree Edge, Freehand?

[Dave]

Recently got hold of a Spyderco UKPK, [FRN Version]

I can sharpen 'Scandi Grind' on Various Grit Waterstone's no problem.

But have had folders before, and ended up putting too 'steep' an edge on.

Are there any tricks to achieving a 15 degree edge, without buying a £60 Spyderco Sharpmaker?

Any other methods, or devices that you know of?

[If anyone has a sharpmaker for sale, cheaper than retail, I'd be interested]

 

[British Red]

If you have a file with a "tail", create a jig with holes and the tail?

 

[ged]

Fifteen degrees is OK for the bulk metal of a blade, but for the edge itself it's very fine. I'd say too fine, I wouldn't expect it to last very well at all as an everyday user. Razor blades are typically sharpened at 20 degrees (40 degrees total included angle), see this link for example: http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/content.php?r=196-Experiments-on-Knife-Sharpening

Some of the more exotic steels about nowadays might do better with finer angles but I have no real experience of them. For most applications I'd probably go for conservative angles and take the extra edge longevity.

 

[Dave]

Thankyou for the tips. Shall have to have a think about the jig idea BR.
I think I will actually find it quite difficult to retain, any consistent edge, when not sharpening a scandi grind. Whether it be at 15 or 20 Degreees.
Have sharpened a number of scandi grinds Ive owned, puukkos, Alan Wood knives, etc.
My present everyday user is a Paul Baker Bushman TZ. [The older convex version which I reprofiled to a scandi grind using waterstones.]
But not having had much experience with the 'Compound Double Bevel' grind shape, of a folder, its quite intimidating.

Do you guys employ a different grip, or is it just a 'feel' you develop with experience, and it becomes as easy as I would find the scandi grind?
Im sure that's the case for most

Im thinking about getting a spyderco sharpmaker, as even on a scandi grind blade, adding a small secondary [chisel] bevel, makes it a little stronger, and is easier to 'repair' when the inevitable 'dint' mysteriously appears!

But if I can save £60, and just use my king waterstones, [for the ukpk] that would obviously be the best bet

 

[The Big Lebowski]

You would have to look into the angles...
But Global do steel collars that clip onto the spine of the knife, keeping one constant angle and are designed for wetstones.
You also have a choice of two so i assume the angle would be different for each one in relation to the blade vs size of clip.

Just a thought! At-least it would be constant/consistent.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Global-H-4560-Stainless-Steel-Sharpening/dp/B00005OL3H

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guide-Rails-sharpening-correct-angle/dp/B0006A03V0

 

[ged]

Do you guys employ a different grip, or is it just a 'feel' you develop with experience...

Definitely feel. Years ago I bought a Lansky sharpener and I never really got on with it. I think that kind of thing is too inflexible. When I'm sharpening by hand I find that I feel the blade either what I call 'sliding' over the stone when it's really cutting far away from the very edge, or if I lift the back edge of the blade a little it starts to feel like it's 'trying to cut' the stone. Then it's right at the edge, and I back off just a bit.

... and it becomes as easy as I would find the scandi grind?

It seems easy but I'm not sure how easy it is. Sometimes you do things without even knowing you're doing them. I've done miles of stick welding, and to me it's as easy as pie to put a run of weld anywhere, any position. Then I watch someone have a go who hasn't done it much, and I have to think back a loooong time to when I hadn't either to try to remember how hard it was in the beginning. I can't remember. It's weird. It's harder to remember than it is to do a weld. But I have a bit of welding kicking around in the shed somewhere that was one of the first I ever did, I keep it just to remind myself.

Im thinking about getting a spyderco sharpmaker ... But if I can save £60, and just use my king waterstones, [for the ukpk] that would obviously be the best bet

I'm sure you could make a jig with just a couple of blocks of wood. They wouldn't have to make contact with the stone. You could tailor them to the knife and that way they'd probably be better than any mass produced thing you could buy. I bet eventually you'd stop using them.

 

[Dave]

Definitely feel. Years ago I bought a Lansky sharpener and I never really got on with it. I think that kind of thing is too inflexible. When I'm sharpening by hand I find that I feel the blade either what I call 'sliding' over the stone when it's really cutting far away from the very edge, or if I lift the back edge of the blade a little it starts to feel like it's 'trying to cut' the stone. Then it's right at the edge, and I back off just a bit.

Now that is probably the best tip I shall recieve, which I had not considered. Whereas I am used to [sharpening a scandi grind]
by 'pushing' the edge into the stone, [normally described as trying to 'slice' off the top section. You are suggesting exactly the opposite is required. Going from the back to the front.
I.E. In the same way I 'feel' the business edge, I should now try the reverse, starting from the back edge.
[Starting from the back as a pose to the front? If I have understood you.]

I bet that is difficult in practice. I will give this a go, but may still end up getting a sharpmaker.

Cheers Ged and BR

 

[Hoodoo]

A couple thoughs. Firstly, Lansky makes some sharpening sticks that are much cheaper than the Spydie sharpener. The bevels are 20 and 25 degrees. They work great as well. Secondly, a magic marker and a 10x hand lens can help improve your freehand sharpening. Darken the bevel with the magic marker, then make a couple passes on your stone. Look closely at the bevel with the hand lens to see the grinding pattern. Repeat over and over untill you get a feel for holding at the appropriate angle.

 

[Dave]

Aye. Thanks Hoodoo. Thats helpful as well.