A welome and a plea for help

[Biddlesby]

Hello. My name is Harry, and I'm quite new to the 'scene'. I've been camping in fields and whatnot before, but Ray [The God] Mear's series has enlightened me.

I'm 16, and live in rural Norfolk. I've got some wooded areas around me, and quite a big garden, so I'm hoping to hone my skills there. I've recently bought a Bushcraft book to help things along, which is very interesting. In the future I hope to take part on a bushcraft course, then go to Norway, Sweden, or perhaps canada.

Now for the help. I'm planning a trip to Scotland next month, with a friend. I've climbed mountains in the Snowdon range before, but never camped on any, which is what I'm hoping to do with the Southern Uplands. I'm stubbornly refusing to take a gas stove, but I'm not confident in my abilities. It's only for three or four days, so if i do starve i reckon i'll live through it, but I don't particularly want to fall back on that ^^.

Firstly - are there many woods in Scotland? We're not sure of destination - near Dumfries or Kroydart perhaps. And, would it be likely to rain? If so, would making a campfire be near impossible? This is the end of June, so I'm hoping the weather will be mild.

Secondly, will there be adaquate drinkable water sources?

I know these questions are vague, but so is my knowledge. I welcome any wisdom about mountains to travel. Ideally it needs to be near a town so I can get a train or a bus there.

This brings me to equipment. A tent shouldn't be a problem, nor should cooking or axes (will I need one for firewood? I've got a small one if necessary...). I do however, need:

• A knife
• A rucksack - 35 litre
• Footwear
• Perhaps some clothing

Any advice on these things would be helpful, or any links to similar advice that I've missed. I'm really looking forward to the experience - it's going to be good. I'm also looking forward to become part of this wonderful community (*sucks up*). I just regret not getting into such things from an earlier age, but I hope I'll still have enough experience to become at least a half-competant bushman.

Thanks for taking the time for reading this (unless you've skipped to the end - ya ******* ).

 

[Graham_S]

it's scotland so it's going to rain, you can count on it.
as to knoydart it's a lovely place but a little difficult to get to. you need to get the train to mallaig then get a ferry to knoydart. iirc the ferry only goes to the peninsula once or twice a week. treat all water as suspect no matter what anyone tells you.

 

[Slimey]

Good luck with your adventure. I can't really make any usefull suggestion other than be carefull.

What I really wanted to say was that you're 16, I waited until I was 39 to go on a bushcraft introdutory course in April this year.

I wish I'd done something sooner.

 

[Biddlesby]

I'm hoping to really get into bushcraft, and I'm glad you finally got onto your course .

About this water - if I treat everything as suspect how will I drink during the trip? Sterilising? When I went up Snowdon, we found a nice running stream with a waterfall. We drank bottles of it, and it tasted wonderful.

Assuming it will rain; how hard will it be to light a campfire? Is that perhaps a bit too ambitious? I really want to avoid a gas stove. Keeping on this matter - will it be easy/difficult/impossible to find firewood on Knoydart?

 

[Lost_Patrol]

I'd recomend taking some good waterproofs - when it rains, it really rains !
You'd be wise to invest in a good sleeping bag and mat too - or lots of blankets. If you aren't warm at night then you won't sleep, and life gets pretty grim.

Good luck mate

 

[Graham_S]

last time i was in knoydart we filled our water bottles with water, took a large drink, then 50yds upstream found a dead deer in the burn. just because you're in the middle of nowhere doesn't mean it's safe.
the terrain in knoydart includes large amounts of moorland without significant amounts of wood. that said there are woods there. however, i would take a stove with you if you have one.
it's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
and don't forget insect repellent, the midges are as big as dogs up there

 

[bambodoggy]

I hate to be the voice of control here my friend but if you are as under experienced as you appear to be from what you have said in your post (and I'm not for a moment condeming you for that...we all started somewhere and it's brilliant that you have found Bushcraft) I would say that you'd be far better off spending a week in Thetford forest and honing your skills there.

Snowdon isn't a bad grounding for mountain adventure but heading up to Scotland at 16 with just one mate, new boots and no stove is, I'm afraid to say, bordering on negligence.

As some of the Scotish members on here will tell you, it can be almost as horrid up there in the summer as it is in the winter and if you're not kitted out properly and with only two of you then it could easily turn into a drama.

Imagine one of you broke an anckle, the weather closes in and you can't even make a hot brew because you didn't bring a stove and your bushcraft skills aren't up to starting a fire on the side of a flooded mountain... Seriously mate, I'm not saying this to put a dampener on things and by all means do what you like (as I would have done at 16 too ) but you asked for our help and mine is to tell you that from what you have said you are biting off more than you can chew.

Why not practice your skills at home, then chat to some of the scotish members and find out when their next meet up is and go along...or I also know the lads over in East Anglia have regular meets and are all nice helpful souls.... then maybe go up and do the trip you're planning next year....

Oh and as a side point; the taste and clarity of water is NOT any sort of garentee that it is safe to drink. I too drink of clear mountain streams in both Scotland and Wales and so again I'm not saying not too...just that it can still be full of nasties and taste lovely.

Hope that helps and hasn't put you off at all.... I wish you all the best in whatever you choice to do but please remember not to under estimate how hard it can be up in Scotland.

Cheers,

Bam.

 

[Biddlesby]

Well that's always been one of my fears. Perhaps camping in the Lake District would be more agreeable?

Thanks for your warnings .

[edit] I'm now swaying towards taking the stove. It would be horrible without warmth.

[edit2] I re-read your post. Going up with some other experienced people sounds great - I'd like to get in contact with somebody if possible.

[edit3] If I can't drink the streams, what could I use as a water resource? Would I have to carry all of my water in one go?

 

[baggins]

I have to agree with bambodoggy, I've been teaching winter climbing in scotland and newzealand, and frankly, Scotland is the tougher to the two. The weather is severly unpredictable, even in midsummer. Aid is much further away, should you have a problem (god forbid). Due to the amount of grazing, many of the water courses are tainted (although boiling will solve that)
I really don't want to put you off though, just taking some sensible precautions, especially on your first trip, may mean the difference between having the first of many exciting trips and one miserable, damp week.
Get some boots now. Good quality leather boots (goretex insert if you can afford it), the high leg exarmy boots are ok and make sure they are well waxed and you've worn them from now till you go. Blisters are a killer!
Some Gaiters really help stop the socks getting wet in boggy ground.
How is are your navigational skills? you really need them. Good maps and a compass (and knowing how to use them) could save your life. They've saved mine on more than one occasion.
The best waterproofs you can afford, they don't need to be technical mountain garments(£300 is alot) but a good 3/4 length breathable jacket and some trousers.
Hat and gloves are and absolute essential as are several pairs of dry socks.
Any rucksack that is comfy is ok but make sure you put all your kit in seperate waterproof bags (even the expensive sacks leak in scotland)
A good first aid kit and finally plenty of mosquito repellent. Scotish midges are REALLY REALLY VICIOUS!!!
Take a gas stove, you don't have to use it but keeping a fire going on a damp, windy hillside when you are wet and cold is very hard and miserable.
Have a really great time mate, i know it sounds like alot of kit to carry but until these really are the basics.
If you've got any more questions just ask mate. i spent a month when i was 16 in the caingornms and i had the best time ever (thanks mainly to my old man who taught me alot)

 

[Graham_S]

[edit3] If I can't drink the streams, what could I use as a water resource? Would I have to carry all of my water in one go?

you can drink the water, just make sure you purify it either with chemicals or boiling.

you also might think about getting a folding saw for cutting firewood. it takes a lot less effort than an axe.

 

[Biddlesby]

Thanks for all your help. I just wanted to point out that I'm planning on the Southern Uplands (if i do go to Scotland). I'm not saying because of that I expect the weather to be nice, I'm just wondering if there's any weather difference and if it affects your comments at all. Anybody care to comment on the Lake District as a location? a) Would it be populated 'too much' and b) Are the rules on fire-lighting far more stringent?

Comments/advice are great . Keep them coming.

 

[moko]

Hi Biddlesby,
Take the sound advice from baggins and bambodoggy. They know what they are talking about. Mountain environments are serious stuff and even the best mountaineer can come un-stuck, and often do. Plenty of people get in big trouble on the peaks and in the foot hills, especially in the Lakes.
Like you I am a big Ray Mears fan but remember, this man is an expert. He has spent his entire life building his skills and yet you still see him learning new skills from other experienced woodsman. Ray first began to developed his skills on the North Downs in the sunny South ! You dont have to go to the ends of the earth (especially at this early stage) for a true bushcraft experience.
Like you, I am new to bushcraft. However, I have years of camping, trekking and mountaineering experience from all over the world and yet I wouldn't set a foot on a mountain slope without the right kit and an experienced buddy who I new I could rely on if things got bad.
Sorry mate if I sound a bit like your old man, I dont mean to.

Be safe what ever decide to do. Have a good one.
I

 

[ChrisKavanaugh]

Anyone who goes bushcrafting can get an incredible life insurance policy for no more expense than the very paper it's written on. Let your family , friends,employer know your plans, destination, expected time away and phone numbers of the local police or emergency services. When you get to your destination a courtesy visit to those agencies with a brief explanation of your plans and family's phone numbers is also helpfull. Nobody can help you in an emergency if they don't know your out there. It's also smart to stick to your plan. Going off to find the meteor you saw come down last night is potentially placing you outside of a search area based on your information. Save something for your next visit. If I was going to Scotland ( or anywhere else) appropriate clothing and a quality sleeping bag would be my highest priorities. Theres a reason the Romans stopped at Hadrian's Wall

 

[stotRE]

Hi Biddlesby

Be careful mate and listen and take on all advice given and remember to train safe
A very good friend of mine nearly died when we were on selection together because he broke his leg and couldn't walk to safety but luckily for him we found him just intime and he had a bergan full of kit!

Never think that you will not need it because it could be the piece of kit that saves your life

But enough of the scare mongering, after all its about enjoying nature and being a free individual.

Make sure everything is individually waterproofed and that you let somebody who you trust( parent, friend etc)know your intentions.

Keep your powder dry and your hatchet razor sharp!

 

[Mike Harlos]

Thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth

My experience is in Canada, usually in heavily wooded and mountainous areas. I'm fortunate enough to live a couple hours' drive from some beautiful lakes and woods; in fact, my wife and I and our three "kids" (youngest is almost 18... not exactly kids anymore ) are heading out for a three day trip this weekend).

As stated in earlier posts, I would definitely treat all water before drinking it. You might find the following article interesting. Although it's a couple of years old, the journal is reputable. Click here for a public domain abstract. The article title is:

Medical risks of wilderness hiking
Boulware DR, Forgey WW, Martin WJ 2nd.
Am J Med. 2003 Mar;114(4):288-93

They studied health-related complications of people hiking the Appalachian trail for at least seven days, and ended up surveying 280 hikers having a combined 38,940 days outdoors. The results give some insight into what we all should work towards preventing when in the bush... injury, skin blisters/breakdown, bone/joint pain.

Interestingly, the most common medical reason for premature termination of the hike was diarrhea. This was 7.7 times more likely in those who drank untreated water from streams or ponds. In contrast, those who practiced "good hygiene" had 0.46 (i.e.. less than half) the risk of the overall group.

Reinforces the need to be attentive to water quality. What a disappointment it must have been to end a hike early because of giardia or other water-related nasties. I have the best pump/filter that I could find... supposedly recommended for travel in areas of very poor water quality... and so far, so good. The last canoe trip we took, when we scooped the water bucket in the lake, the water was teeming with little critters. We poured the water through a cloth to get the big guys out, then pumped it through the filter, then added purification tablets (likely overkill). We could have just boiled it, and had critter stew.

Here in Canada, and likely in Scotland, you need to have appropriate layers to deal with the variable temperatures, as well as the fact that you will be rained on. (I like various thicknesses of merino wool, and a waterproof shell).

A first aid and personal survival kit is nice to have.

What are the fire restrictions in Scotland? In some areas of Canada, at certain times of the year you need a stove, since no fires are allowed.

I would also suggest that you have a conservative goal, and stick to it... don't be tempted to push yourself to your physical, mental/emotional, or technical limits. Relax, enjoy, and practice the fun stuff of bushcraft!

I try to have a mental checklist - I do some solitary hiking as well, where there isn't much room for being casual about safety (although some would say that hiking alone is being casual about safety, I don't agree as long as prudence is taken):
- do I know where I'm going? (maps, navigation)
- do others know where I'm going and when I should return?
- do I have a means addressing the common needs if things go wrong: first aid, warmth (fire, shelter), signaling, water, fear/panic, food (not as urgent as the others)
- have I set realistic goals; if so, be disciplined enough not to try to exceed them.

Sorry for the long post. I think I'm all enthusiastic on your behalf! Have fun!

Regards,

Mike

Edited to add: Speaking of enthusiastic... just six weeks or so until I start the one-week wilderness skills course with Mors Kochanski!!!

 

[Ogri the trog]

Also, not wanting to urinate on your fireworks,
Can you get permission from the landowner to have a fire and do your "thing" in his woods?
The idea of spending some time with the local bushcrafters sounds good to me, get used to what goes on without being too far away from "civilisation".
Start small, build solid foundations, learn from those that have gone before.

And most of all enjoy yourself -its good to know that not all teenagers are out stealing cars for fun.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[Toddy]

Well I am going to rain on your parade. You haven't camped before, you are aiming to camp in an area you know nothing of, and you don't know the abilities of your kit. There's a hell of a difference between the Southern Uplands and Knoydart and even in good weather either can be treacheous.

The good points: You're young, fit & healthy, and you've asked for information.

May I suggest a camp closer to home to get used to not only your kit but your companions? Get an idea of basic camping skills *before* you inflict yourselves on some poor unsuspecting landowner.

Take next weekend, camp out, even on a commercial campsite, maybe in a country park, and suss out cooking, how much water, how good your sleeping equipment and waterproofs are.....and take your mobile phones with you. Tell someone where you are and where you are going. Walk the local hills and woodlands, see what you find. One of bushcrafts' greatest skills is discrete invisibility. You don't need to be screaming, "Look at us, we're doing a Ray Mears". (sorry Ray) Just quietly get out and there and learn, and there's no need to travel hundreds of miles to do it. 200 yards off the beaten path and there'll be no-one else there.

When you finally do get North, I hope you're not only ready for it, but prepared to safely enjoy your jaunt.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[PurpleHeath]

i agree with Toddy last year when i was 16 i went to scotland on a semi bushcraft hoilday with my sister who was 19 at the time, we decided to walk the great glen way, which we found out was quite popular. we had a great time! we are experinced campers but you are not allowed to wild camp on the footpath so we had to stay in commerical campsites, but we both had a great time! now we both know now what our limits are but we found out in relative safety because so many people use the footpath.

my advice is to go to scotland like you plan but take a gas stove (there not that heavy really!) and stay in a proper campsite close to a footpath where to can enjoy the place and most of all go explore!!

 

[R-Bowskill]

I know some parts of the southern upland way verry well, especially the section from Sanquar to the top of the Lowther hills, There is no guarantee of decent weather, the midges can drive you insane but it is beautiful in it's own way.

Things have tightened up alot in recent years, I used to have open fires on the gravel bars in the rivers but now the estate sends wardens round every couple of days to stop that.

Take a stove, it's re-assuring to know you've got it and as most of the woodland is commercial plantations they won't appreciate you lighting a fire in them. As for water, take it from as high up as you can, making sure there are no dead sheep or drums of chemicals upstream, filter and purify it. The change in water etc will probably affect your system for a few days anyway.

If you're planning to go off the paths be careful, have a map & compass as the clouds can descend below the hilltops, and often do. If you're taking a mobile, save the battery and don't expect to get a signal all the time.

Finally, take it steady, it's not a race, enjoy the views and the experience, and take a pair of bino's and a camera, one to see the wildlife and views better the other to record the trip so you can put some pics on the site for us to see.

Best of luck, have fun.

 

[AJB]

Hi, Biddlesby

God bless you for not wanting to break into my house or pop a cap in my bottom! It restores my faith. God I feel old. I’m only in my mid 30’s and although I’ve been watching the God Ray for years and have bought loads of kit I’m only really a camper with dreams of Bushcraft.

However, I WOULD STRONGLY echo the words of “bambodoggy”. Think this through, it could go very wrong, of course it could be brilliant, but don’t try too much the first time.

I haven’t camped much in Scotland but have around Loch Doon
(http://www.e-ayrshire.co.uk/local/ab/locations/loch_doon.htm).

Plenty of fire wood, some nice walks, all in all not bad. But the Lake District is easier (and cheaper) to get to and has more of a safety net should things go wrong.

Yes it will rain and when it doesn’t you will be plagued with midges. Take some repellant and a head net.

I understand your resistance to take a stove but you may regret it. A compromise might be a hexamine cooker. Small, light, effective and very, very cheep.

Water, is a pain. If you don’t have a fire it will be difficult to boil as much water as you need. You’ll need to use sterilizing tablets or Iodine. Unless you feel rich, then a filtration pump is the way to go, but I can’t justify the expense, being only an armchair bushcraft enthusiast. I have bought an army filtration system which screws onto the British army water bottle. It is very difficult to find. I have found two places that do them, one at £70 and one at £29! I can’t remember what the company is called. They’re on-line and have a shop in Chester, but if you want to know I’ll dig out their info when I get home (in the office and supposed to be being grown up!)

A knife, I got the training knife from Ray’s site. It’s perfectly good enough for me and I would suggest for you at the moment and it’s only £10, but I would say everything else on the site is over priced compared with the competition. I would go for a folding saw as well. They are expensive if you get them from a bushcraft supplier, but B&Q do a few which are more than adequate and quite cheap.

I don’t have any suggestion on rucksacks or boots, but clothing, yes take some or you’ll be cold and in a cell! Make sure you have a good torch and spare batteries, more matches than you think you’ll need and a lighter or four. A good first aid kit, something to do (cards) and a mobile phone but don’t rely on the signal. (I read a good tip the other day, if there is a poor or no signal, turn your phone off, as it will be trying like hell to find one and will flatten your battery.)

Have fun, stay save, don’t make a pain in the **** of yourself and tell us how it went.

AJB