And it's a fair enough reaction. This wasn't just another bear, she was a special bear for those who followed her story.
A great adirondack legend lost.
- Thread starter Shovel
- Start date
And it's a fair enough reaction. This wasn't just another bear, she was a special bear for those who followed her story.
You are the one cracking out that I'm an "emotionalist" whilst obviously not knowing the first thing about me.
You're also trying to say that sport hunters are conservationists all of a sudden, a claim that I find faintly ridiculous when the shooting of a radio collared bear is concerned.
I'm not the one who needs to justify myself, I also don't need you to tell me if I'm worthy or not. My credentials are well enough known around here.
Hunters not only are conservationists as such; but probably more importantly, their license fees and special taxes on their equipment fund almost all other conservation efforts. Always have and probably always will.
A radio collared bear.
That sort of behaviour flys in the face of any conservationist credentials.
I'm out of here before I really say what I think...
That sort of behaviour flys in the face of any conservationist credentials.
I'm out of here before I really say what I think...
How is that relevant? The radio collar had long since stopped working. And what bearing does that have anyway since the hunters have no access to the data or the signal? That the particular bear was one that had been tagged is nothing more than a coincidence.
Part of the point of capturing and collaring bears at all is so that they can track the number that are harvested when the hunters report their kill. And the average ages. Or didn't your conservation work include tracking harvest rates? If your credentials are so well known, apparently something was lacking in your training.
Last edited:
When you've had black bears wander down from the forest into your town in the middle of summer because they're thirsty and in winter because they're hungry, and your neighbours have seen them saunter over the school playing fields at dusk when out walking the dog, you'll start to see them in the same light as the white-tailed dear that jump in front of a car and scare the driver into crossing the oncoming traffic and causing a pile-up.
Bear populations in parts of NJ, Pennsylvania and NY have increased so much in certain years that there is a real need to cull to reduce numbers to what the woods can really support without them coming down into the towns.
Bear populations in parts of NJ, Pennsylvania and NY have increased so much in certain years that there is a real need to cull to reduce numbers to what the woods can really support without them coming down into the towns.
Personally if I saw any animal that had been tagged or collared I'd probably not shoot it and doing so generally makes hunters look bad as folks have fallen into the Disney trap with these animals. They start to see them as cute cuddly pets. I've been involved in a LOT of habitat conservation and helped in the education of literally thousands of Alberta residents in the importance of conservation and practical conservation techniques. This is real world help to both the environment and the animals and people who depend on or use the natural environment.
Where I come from its the hunters who pony up the most dollars for conservation, it's not Disney, PETA, or green peace....it's the folks who actually get out and make practical use of nature. We conserve vast areas that are not only used for hunting and fishing, but for bird watching, berry picking, hiking, and just plain having fun. It's unfortunate that the non hunter user groups contribute so little money. When was the last time y heard of a bird watcher donating towards habitat?
So to return to the original discussion, yes conservation is more important than emotionalism.
Where I come from its the hunters who pony up the most dollars for conservation, it's not Disney, PETA, or green peace....it's the folks who actually get out and make practical use of nature. We conserve vast areas that are not only used for hunting and fishing, but for bird watching, berry picking, hiking, and just plain having fun. It's unfortunate that the non hunter user groups contribute so little money. When was the last time y heard of a bird watcher donating towards habitat?
So to return to the original discussion, yes conservation is more important than emotionalism.
Last edited:
Thought twice about posting. Emotive subject with temperatures rising already. Cuddly animal. Guns. I see a recipe for disaster after all no one is going to be persuaded from their own view on the topic now are they? Me, I think its a shame animals are killed in (some) slaughterhouses in a far less 'humane' way. Pity this clever bear is killed but would I shoot it if I had access to guns and needed to protect me or mine you bet i would! Indeed I'd poach big game in Africa if I needed to feed my family. Enough emotive statements there to start a plethora of threads until the next button is pushed and a perfectly good thread is closed through lack of restraint over other parties views.
You're probably cross because you actually believe those descriptions. Take them with a hefty dose of salt.
No. Not as such. I think Wayland was under the impression that somehow the hunters had used the radio collar to aid their hunt (and had that been the case I would have likely taken his point of view) However the crew that tagged and studied the bear would never have allowed that. At any rate the radio batteries had long since expired.
IMO tagged bears are just an indication of a problem bear however I'm not experienced in the NYS practices. In reading their bear hunting guide : http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/bbhunting10.PDF no mention was made of tagged vs untagged bears wrt targeting - there is a discussion on avoiding cubs for one of the regions but none wrt tagged/untagged.
Imagedude: Not that I've heard (remember I'm in Florida where bears are still protected) But in states where bear hunting is allowed it's no different from shooting a game bird with a leg band for similar purposes. In fact the tags usually have an adress or phone number to contact the research group so they can collect relevant data.
However It's hard to imagine being close enough for a shot and NOT seeing something as big as a radio collar on a bear.
However It's hard to imagine being close enough for a shot and NOT seeing something as big as a radio collar on a bear.
Last edited:
Most states that tag bears (or game birds, or any other animal) do so as a research tool (particulary with radio collars which are used to track movement and migration patterns) That said I believe that most bears are indeed tagged when they are captured for relocation due to being a problem. But this article doesn't seem to indicate this particular bear was or had been a problem.
Apparently some tags state not to eat the meat from the animal as the sedatives used when tagging aren't approved for human consumption.
There aren't any laws that I know of prohibiting a person from shooting tagged animals. If you shoot a radio collared animal the biologists request that you turn in the collar as its illegal to possess the collar itself. You're costing the game department thousands of dollars shooting a collared animal, as its not cheap to get the collar onto the animal. That in itself is a bit of a dilemma. If we find collars on dead animals (wolf killed etc.) we're requested to turn them in too.
I guess Wayland didn't want to discuss this anymore, the facts must have gotten it he way of the rhetoric. It's too bad though, I'm always willing to calmly and factually back up my views on sustainable hunting. I've learned a lot about the British hunting mentality and traditions since being here and it's been a great education. I'm always willing to discuss North American traditions and environmental views, hopefully to help understand why we do things like we do.
There aren't any laws that I know of prohibiting a person from shooting tagged animals. If you shoot a radio collared animal the biologists request that you turn in the collar as its illegal to possess the collar itself. You're costing the game department thousands of dollars shooting a collared animal, as its not cheap to get the collar onto the animal. That in itself is a bit of a dilemma. If we find collars on dead animals (wolf killed etc.) we're requested to turn them in too.
I guess Wayland didn't want to discuss this anymore, the facts must have gotten it he way of the rhetoric. It's too bad though, I'm always willing to calmly and factually back up my views on sustainable hunting. I've learned a lot about the British hunting mentality and traditions since being here and it's been a great education. I'm always willing to discuss North American traditions and environmental views, hopefully to help understand why we do things like we do.
Last edited:
Incorrect.
Also incorrect.
Do not assume to know my mind when you are obviously ill equiped to do so.
Then why do you have a problem with the collar? They aren't meant to protect the bears and info collected from hunters harvesting them is part of what the researchers are after. It's not like there's a shortage of bears in the Adorondacks.
I can understand if you have a general aversion to hunting (I don't share it as such though; as I said, I'm not yet ready to hunt bears) but there's no basis I can see in conservation.
I can understand if you have a general aversion to hunting (I don't share it as such though; as I said, I'm not yet ready to hunt bears) but there's no basis I can see in conservation.
Last edited:
Speaking of bears here's a little story.
We were moose hunting about 4 years ago, my buddy from South Africa (who now lives in Alberta) and I had back packed into the mountains a little ways and set up a spike camp. From there we would head out each day and do our little moose calling thing. Wayne had his self bow made of hickory and shooting about 70 lbs. I had a modern longbow so we were armed fine for moose but had no rifle with us. Anyway the first day when we hiked in we met a couple of guys coming out on horses and they had shot a moose and were packing the meat out. We chatted a it but I guess I should have asked where they shot the moose.
We hunted hard the first day but only saw one cow moose, I had a bull tag though. Towards midday we hiked up high to look for elk and when we came down an old logging trail (from the '30's) there was a big bend with some thick willows at the bottom. This is exactly the kind of spot to kill a moose. So I started a nice lonesome cow call and the bush exploded with movement. We both stalked in for a closer look and darned if there wasn't a pi$$ed off grizzly and he was literally hopping mad. I guess we had stumbled onto the gut pile from the moose, but not before the Grizz did. Buddy Wayne who isn't scared of any animal in Africa was deathly afraid of bears and especially grizzlies. He started to run away and I said "Wayne don't run, if there's ever a time to walk this is it". So we slowly slipped out of the area.
When all was clear Wayne turned to me and said "sorry, I wasn't running, my legs just wouldn't go any slower!" I think it's a funny story now but it was terrifying at the time. We were about 12 yards from one of the biggest grizzlies I've seen, We'd seen his tracks earlier and they were longer than my hiking boot. I still hunt that area and I hope if I ever run into that bear again that he'll remember me and cut me a little slack and just let each other pass on our way.
We were moose hunting about 4 years ago, my buddy from South Africa (who now lives in Alberta) and I had back packed into the mountains a little ways and set up a spike camp. From there we would head out each day and do our little moose calling thing. Wayne had his self bow made of hickory and shooting about 70 lbs. I had a modern longbow so we were armed fine for moose but had no rifle with us. Anyway the first day when we hiked in we met a couple of guys coming out on horses and they had shot a moose and were packing the meat out. We chatted a it but I guess I should have asked where they shot the moose.
We hunted hard the first day but only saw one cow moose, I had a bull tag though. Towards midday we hiked up high to look for elk and when we came down an old logging trail (from the '30's) there was a big bend with some thick willows at the bottom. This is exactly the kind of spot to kill a moose. So I started a nice lonesome cow call and the bush exploded with movement. We both stalked in for a closer look and darned if there wasn't a pi$$ed off grizzly and he was literally hopping mad. I guess we had stumbled onto the gut pile from the moose, but not before the Grizz did. Buddy Wayne who isn't scared of any animal in Africa was deathly afraid of bears and especially grizzlies. He started to run away and I said "Wayne don't run, if there's ever a time to walk this is it". So we slowly slipped out of the area.
When all was clear Wayne turned to me and said "sorry, I wasn't running, my legs just wouldn't go any slower!" I think it's a funny story now but it was terrifying at the time. We were about 12 yards from one of the biggest grizzlies I've seen, We'd seen his tracks earlier and they were longer than my hiking boot. I still hunt that area and I hope if I ever run into that bear again that he'll remember me and cut me a little slack and just let each other pass on our way.
Last edited: