A smaller shelter warms up more from the heat of your body. It also takes less building if you are by yourself.
10 skills that should be learned
- Thread starter Tony
- Start date
Essential skills
How to see (not just look)
How to listen (not just hear)
How to be still (not just unmoving)
How to be yourself (not just part of the groups expectations)
How to be part of a group (not just yourself)
How to laugh
How to cry
How not to be judgemental
How to communicate
How not to be pompous
How to see (not just look)
How to listen (not just hear)
How to be still (not just unmoving)
How to be yourself (not just part of the groups expectations)
How to be part of a group (not just yourself)
How to laugh
How to cry
How not to be judgemental
How to communicate
How not to be pompous
He he, this is proving harder than I thought it would, I think the regional aspects are great, keep them coming and there's a chance I'm going to need to extend this list 
True. But I'd rather have a taller shelter as well.
I'm not sure if it's really relevant if it's easier to heat a smaller shelter with body heat; I mean why would you even want to heat the whole shelter that way? If I were in a colder climate I'd rather the shelter be wind and rain/snow proof and just worry about body heat staying inside my actual sleeping arrangements (bag, blankets, clothing, etc.)
The point about a smaller shelter being quicker or easier to build when alone certainly makes sense though.
Exactly so. I've slept in both; in a cold mountain climate and I prefer the large one. If I want to heat the whole tent I would never depend on body heat.
Personal preference dictated by circumstance
Yes, that's true.
I suppose there will be other factors influencing opinions than just regional/environment differences. I would imagine that Joe was speaking on such shelters as a way of life rather than from a recreational aspect. I would have (and did) enjoy smaller shelters when in my teens. However at my current age and level of fitness I find no joy in the prospect of crawling into or out of a cramped shelter or tent. If it's all I have I'll do it, but it wouldn't be by choice.
What I mean is that the few shelters someone showed me were the kind of shelters our children build to play in. These were made from branches and sticks and not covered with waterproof materials. May be covered with leaves or small branches.
I don't mean to be disrespectful or impolite but if you built one up here you would soon die if you tried to spend a night or two in it in winter anyway (It was minus 36c a few nights ago and windy! - I had to dig the dogs out from under the snow to feed them one morning)
Non of these shelters I have seen would keep rain out nor the wind. So I don't understand how a shelter which lets the wind in can be warm. I wonder whether you have heat in your shelters? We nearly always use a stove but sometimes if we are in a hurry we just use open fire. Our shelters for a night or two are well insulated off the ground - floor covered with cedar where two or three people can move to do cooking and sleeping without discomfort.
Only sometimes would we put up somewhere cramped. Once when me and my first partner first went for several days winter hunting we couldn't reach the shelter built some months before because of bad travelling conditions. We ended up stripping large sections of bark off birch and basswood trees and then used these to cover the spruce roof we'd made. But it kept the snow and most of the wind off. From that day onwards I always made sure i had a large enough tarp on plastic sheet with me on the dog sledge so I could use it as a bed roll/shelter in an emergency.
We believe it is far better to make something comfortable than stay uncomfortable in the cold and wet where you have choice.
If the weather was being kind to us I sleep in the open and watch the night sky.
To us who hunt and travel this is what I thought is bushcraft. Perhaps I am wrong and stupid.
No first nation hunter when on the trail would use a tarp without sides like I see pictures of here in bad conditions - too cold. We'd use the tarp to roll up and sleep in it!!
I never knew the body could produce enough heat to warm up a thin skinned camping tent without fire though.
I don't mean to be disrespectful or impolite but if you built one up here you would soon die if you tried to spend a night or two in it in winter anyway (It was minus 36c a few nights ago and windy! - I had to dig the dogs out from under the snow to feed them one morning)
Non of these shelters I have seen would keep rain out nor the wind. So I don't understand how a shelter which lets the wind in can be warm. I wonder whether you have heat in your shelters? We nearly always use a stove but sometimes if we are in a hurry we just use open fire. Our shelters for a night or two are well insulated off the ground - floor covered with cedar where two or three people can move to do cooking and sleeping without discomfort.
Only sometimes would we put up somewhere cramped. Once when me and my first partner first went for several days winter hunting we couldn't reach the shelter built some months before because of bad travelling conditions. We ended up stripping large sections of bark off birch and basswood trees and then used these to cover the spruce roof we'd made. But it kept the snow and most of the wind off. From that day onwards I always made sure i had a large enough tarp on plastic sheet with me on the dog sledge so I could use it as a bed roll/shelter in an emergency.
We believe it is far better to make something comfortable than stay uncomfortable in the cold and wet where you have choice.
If the weather was being kind to us I sleep in the open and watch the night sky.
To us who hunt and travel this is what I thought is bushcraft. Perhaps I am wrong and stupid.
No first nation hunter when on the trail would use a tarp without sides like I see pictures of here in bad conditions - too cold. We'd use the tarp to roll up and sleep in it!!
I never knew the body could produce enough heat to warm up a thin skinned camping tent without fire though.
``John. Wise skills and thoughtful too. You would travel well in our world. Otagwanisan!!
I usually get shouted down when I suggest something other than sticks and leaves for a shelter 
There are two ways of looking at the big tent/ heating it thing though.
The Japanese don't heat the house, they draught proof it and heat the person…..tables are low down with a recess underneath for the feet, and there's a heater in there, for instance. So heat the space, or minimise the rain and wind and heat the person ?
I still think I'd try to build a bender if I found myself stuck, or a convenient dry hedge or rocky bit. We can't just strip bark off trees here Joe, the land's too crowded and it all belongs to someone, but I do carry a lightweight tarp and I know that if push comes to shove I can make a bender that will survive a small fire inside it or reflected into it. Doesn't need to be a massive fire to warm the space and the people, and still cook up something to eat/drink.
Wayne ? I do take your points, and I am mindful about the land and it's produce belonging to someone, or it's over exploitation, but I have excavated sites where pignuts (and I gathered them and weighed them to see) averaged about a kilo weight per three square metres. I dug them up with an archaeologist's wee trowel, but my digging stick does a pretty good job of doing them too. Took me about an hour. I don't know the calorific value of them though. How about the reedmace ? where it grows there's a massive amount of root that just pulls up.
For all the length of time someone's going to be stuck here though, I think finding, and making sure the water isn't going to make you ill, is more important.
M
There are two ways of looking at the big tent/ heating it thing though.
The Japanese don't heat the house, they draught proof it and heat the person…..tables are low down with a recess underneath for the feet, and there's a heater in there, for instance. So heat the space, or minimise the rain and wind and heat the person ?
I still think I'd try to build a bender if I found myself stuck, or a convenient dry hedge or rocky bit. We can't just strip bark off trees here Joe, the land's too crowded and it all belongs to someone, but I do carry a lightweight tarp
and I know that if push comes to shove I can make a bender that will survive a small fire inside it or reflected into it. Doesn't need to be a massive fire to warm the space and the people, and still cook up something to eat/drink.Wayne ? I do take your points, and I am mindful about the land and it's produce belonging to someone, or it's over exploitation, but I have excavated sites where pignuts (and I gathered them and weighed them to see) averaged about a kilo weight per three square metres. I dug them up with an archaeologist's wee trowel, but my digging stick does a pretty good job of doing them too. Took me about an hour. I don't know the calorific value of them though. How about the reedmace ? where it grows there's a massive amount of root that just pulls up.
For all the length of time someone's going to be stuck here though, I think finding, and making sure the water isn't going to make you ill, is more important.
M
I used to work with a fine young man, an eagle scout, who really enjoyed camping/backpacking with his grandfather.
At times we would talk about our kit and experiences, as I had/have little to no knowledge of all the modern, high-speed, lightweight kit out there. Once, I showed him how I prepare trail rations prior to an outing. His response was of the nature of "I'll stick to Mountain Home (? I forget exactly the name) spaghetti and meatballs. Its easier and faster."
I asked him if they ever invented a sofa, TV, vcr, floor lamp and rug that would fit in his pack would he take those, too. "Oh, yeah, I would!" he replied. My response; "Then why even leave home?".
I don't know what motivates anyone to go bushcrafting or camping or anything else. What I do know is that you have to go to it; it rarely comes to you. You make the choice. You choose what (cap)-abilities you wish to accumulate and use. But, and this is IT; every step you take away from your everyday spaghetti life is a test. Sometimes The test. We leave the sofa and TV behind in order to reconnect with some instinctual gottahave. We get what we put in. Sometimes, unexpectedly, we get more than we bargained for.
I use a saw to cut wood at home. I don't need one out on the ground (we refer to being out in the field as being " out on the ground "), as my needs there are vastly different. The backpackers 30 years ago used to say " Nothing bigger than your wrist. If you can't break it without cutting it, its too big to burn." They were recycling an idea much older than their sport. I have never not been able to find enough downed dead branches to fulfill my fire or shelter needs. If a larger diameter branch presents itself at the fire, we either burn it in half or push-log it.
I don't pack a tent, either. Nor do my rations even need to be heated (plenty of fast-moving, cold camps). Hot food and a warm fire do feel good, though .
It's a test. We choose to take it. We choose the subject. We even have a modicum of control over the questions. Our biggest choice is what we study. Adjust your studying burden to the test chosen/expected (I'd love to try one of those pub to pub excursions someday. I think I'm ready and it sounds like a blast ).
At times we would talk about our kit and experiences, as I had/have little to no knowledge of all the modern, high-speed, lightweight kit out there. Once, I showed him how I prepare trail rations prior to an outing. His response was of the nature of "I'll stick to Mountain Home (? I forget exactly the name) spaghetti and meatballs. Its easier and faster."
I asked him if they ever invented a sofa, TV, vcr, floor lamp and rug that would fit in his pack would he take those, too. "Oh, yeah, I would!" he replied. My response; "Then why even leave home?".
I don't know what motivates anyone to go bushcrafting or camping or anything else. What I do know is that you have to go to it; it rarely comes to you. You make the choice. You choose what (cap)-abilities you wish to accumulate and use. But, and this is IT; every step you take away from your everyday spaghetti life is a test. Sometimes The test. We leave the sofa and TV behind in order to reconnect with some instinctual gottahave. We get what we put in. Sometimes, unexpectedly, we get more than we bargained for.
I use a saw to cut wood at home. I don't need one out on the ground (we refer to being out in the field as being " out on the ground "), as my needs there are vastly different. The backpackers 30 years ago used to say " Nothing bigger than your wrist. If you can't break it without cutting it, its too big to burn." They were recycling an idea much older than their sport. I have never not been able to find enough downed dead branches to fulfill my fire or shelter needs. If a larger diameter branch presents itself at the fire, we either burn it in half or push-log it.
I don't pack a tent, either. Nor do my rations even need to be heated (plenty of fast-moving, cold camps). Hot food and a warm fire do feel good, though
.It's a test. We choose to take it. We choose the subject. We even have a modicum of control over the questions. Our biggest choice is what we study. Adjust your studying burden to the test chosen/expected (I'd love to try one of those pub to pub excursions someday. I think I'm ready and it sounds like a blast
).
I'll start abusi.....er.....training my body.
I usually get shouted down when I suggest something other than sticks and leaves for a shelter
There are two ways of looking at the big tent/ heating it thing though.
The Japanese don't heat the house, they draught proof it and heat the person…..tables are low down with a recess underneath for the feet, and there's a heater in there, for instance. So heat the space, or minimise the rain and wind and heat the person ?.....
I'm with you and Joe on the leaves bit. We used to build that type of thing as kids as a way of playing. It would never stand up to a real heavy rain.
I also like the Japanese approach you mention.
I have made a "debris shelter" out of nothing but brambles ... it is pretty well proof against the rain we get in Wales - density of debris thatch is the controlling factor not the materials when it comes to water-resistance.
I still think I'd try to build a bender if I found myself stuck, or a convenient dry hedge or rocky bit. We can't just strip bark off trees here Joe, the land's too crowded and it all belongs to someone, but I do carry a lightweight tarp
M
Exactly what I'd do; at a push some form of bender against a hedge or wall etc. has never let me down and I've always carried a tarp with me........
A lot of the other items but as I want to live in the wild if only in imagination as well as sometimes for real, I would aim to have the same living standards as they seemed to have had at Star Carr but with the skills. so:
Make a bow and arrows
Build some form of boat
Make cordage
Recognise wild food plants
Recover salt from sea water
Make a bow and arrows
Build some form of boat
Make cordage
Recognise wild food plants
Recover salt from sea water
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