Why not all wool?

[mark a.]

Roughly speaking, wool is great at everything. It's warm when needed, cooler when needed, doesn't feel clammy, doesn't smell, is comfy (esp merino), warm when wet, breathes, can be washed and tumble dried (merino), is environmentally friendly and could probably make your breakfast too. There isn't a layer where it wouldn't work, from underpants and socks to thick wooly jumpers.

So, apart from a shell jacket and waterproof trousers for when it's chucking it down, why should anyone wear anything else?

(I'm obviously simplifying things somewhat here, and I enjoy my Buffalo, Goretex etc, but really, I can see few reasons why wool wouldn't be great for most things.)

 

[shep]

I think the main reservation a lot of folks have is the weight/warmth ratio. Polartec wins on that alone.
Personally, I shed weight wherever possible, but still go for almost all wool insulating/wicking layers for all the reasons you mention above.

 

[Toddy]

Wool is an excellent material but it gets a bit too warm and it doesn't do well in sweaty conditions. That's why the advice is linen under wool next to the skin. Linen is also more easily washed and dried than wool which though it can be washed, really isn't best washed too often or too roughly.
That apart, yes wool is an ideal fabric for our cool, damp climate, especially if layered with natural fibres.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Ogri the trog]

My quote is from the first paragraph of Mors Kochanski's book "Bushcraft".

"If you were dressed in the old European tradition with numerous layers of fluffy wool adequate to deal with the bitter cold, you would likely be wearing nine kilogrammes or 25 pounds of clothing. If you were unable to dry your clothes out, within five days you would be carrying six kilogrammes of accumilated frost. The efficiency of your clothing would be so impaired by this frost build-up that you could die of hypothermia within a week."

So we know that wool has its place so long as we can clean and dry it periodically, and your proviso of "shell jacket and trousers" largely covers its shortcomings. But we also know that high quality wool garments are expensive to buy and can be heavy to carry. Our convenience led lifestyles allow us to choose materials that, on the grand scale, are less capable - but for short-term excursions to our hobby sites, more convenient, less expensive and "fit" better into our ideals of what clothing should offer.

I'm not defending modern materials over wool, I just think that most materials have their place.

Ogri the trog

 

[Lithril]

I do agree with you and I definately have my share of modern clothing...
Here is a thing though, do you think that modern woolen clothing would have improved now over the Old European traditional clothing due to modern manufacturing techniques?

Matt

 

[Toddy]

I think so. The treatment that removes the scales and effectively inhibits felting and shrinkage, is in itself a great leap forward, the is the process that makes "New Wool".
The process that produces fluffy fleecing of the upper surface contributes much to the newer lightweight fabrics that have at least as much warmth but are much lighter than the old "blanket" coats and shirts. All good things.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[spamel]

I totaly rate woollen kit, blankets, shirts and coats. I am looking to get some proper woollen socks and maybe trews as well, even if they are under trousers or long shorts/breeches or whatever you call them. Pendletons shirts are very good as a base layer, the Swanni range also do well, and my Woollen Mills jacket is fantastic. I have woolen mittens and fingerless gloves which are great, woolen watch caps for those cold winter morns and woollen army blankets are very good to top up a sleeping bags rating by simply throwing it over the top of the bag.

 

[big_swede]

My quote is from the first paragraph of Mors Kochanski's book "Bushcraft".

"If you were dressed in the old European tradition with numerous layers of fluffy wool adequate to deal with the bitter cold, you would likely be wearing nine kilogrammes or 25 pounds of clothing. If you were unable to dry your clothes out, within five days you would be carrying six kilogrammes of accumilated frost. The efficiency of your clothing would be so impaired by this frost build-up that you could die of hypothermia within a week."

So we know that wool has its place so long as we can clean and dry it periodically, and your proviso of "shell jacket and trousers" largely covers its shortcomings. But we also know that high quality wool garments are expensive to buy and can be heavy to carry. Our convenience led lifestyles allow us to choose materials that, on the grand scale, are less capable - but for short-term excursions to our hobby sites, more convenient, less expensive and "fit" better into our ideals of what clothing should offer.

I'm not defending modern materials over wool, I just think that most materials have their place.

Ogri the trog

Hej hej!

Okay, I think there are some misconceptions here. First of all, NO material will work properly if you can't dry the moisture (frozen or not) out. Doesn't matter if it's down, synthetic or wool. Likewise shell garments won't work if they aren't regularly DWR-treated and washed. Proper care applies to all textiles. I've done a 21 day skiing trip in the frozen arctic and experienced frost buildup in synthetic garments and sleeping bags too, I think it is important to keep this in mind. (That's why it is recommended with a vapour barrier bag in extreme cold, this is also customary in alpine climbing shoes and expedtion skiing shoes). I hade virtually no frost build up in my woolen thermals, while the guys in microfleece were always shivering at all breaks (until the put on their down jackets that is..).

As for wools shortcomings, I don't quite agree, wool is still the best material for thermals IMHO. Natural antibiotic, good moisture repellent properties etc. Haven't come across any synthetics with similar specs. But as you say, some things are maybe more used for the 'fit' onto our ideals. A fleece pile gives a lot better warmth-weight ratio, as does down (a natural material..) and primaloft etc. An important factor for most of us here though, is also the ability to withstand sparks, were wool exceds well beoynd most customary insulation textiles (nomex excluded, but then again, nomex isn't very warm in itself).

I think one of the great values with wool is the 'basic' feeling of it. One shouldn't underestimate that. If you can be comfortable in 'primitive' clothing and gear, it always gives a sense of self-satisfaction. As we all do this for recreation I think that is a great plus. Any old fool can go out with their great down parka, hi-tech heated tent, and be comfortable, but to do it in a wool blanket, woolen clothing and a great big fire requires skill and dedication.

\Over and out!

 

[canadianwildman]

i dont make enough money to wear just wool im on a budget

 

[ads677]

I've tried a couple of brands of merino underwear and, contrary to their blurb, found them itchy! I remember as a kid being forced to wear a woollen bobble hat which also itched like mad. Woollen outerwear I find great though. S'pose I'm just a sensitive soul!

 

[andy_e]

Will have to try linen next to my skin - linen works really well in hot, humid conditions - so it makes sense that it would work well under wool - which can get a bit sweaty.

 

[Lithril]

I swear by my Patagonia merino boxers, fantastic, just expensive.

 

[Ratbag]

Itchy...... bah

Rat

 

[spamel]

Itchy...... bah

Rat

You big girl!

 

[John Fenna]

Personally I wear a silk shirt under my "itchy" Swanni shirt - luxury and natural....and stylish!
I think the debate should be "Why not all natural" rather than "all wool"
Silk, Linen, Wool, Cotton (Ventile - not denim ) Bamboo, Hemp are all great for outdoor wear and are natural plant products.
I have heard tell of Nettle fabric being produced again.....now is THAT itchy?

 

[xylaria]

I far I know wollen garmets from prehistory were oil-in and were therefore pretty water proof. But I have on good authority that pakistan hill tribes that use oil-in felt to sheild there homes from the cold stink of sheep. That may go some way explianing how people managed to live iceland 1500 years ago without gortex.

Big girls! moaning about the itchyness you should try sitting in church for 1 1/2 hours with wolly tights on, child cruelty that was. The pyscological scars will last a life time you know.

 

[andy_e]

I have heard tell of Nettle fabric being produced again.....now is THAT itchy?

It'll certainly warm you up

 

[Bushcrafter1]

Here's an interesting quote from "Eye Deep in Hell" by John Ellis about World War 1, "Ironically, one of the mens most valuable possessions, the great-coat, could prove a dreadful liability in wet weather. The coats weighed approximately 7lbs. After a couple of days of rain, they were capable of absorbing an extra 20lbs of water. According to the official history (medical) it was quite common for the combination of mud and water to amount to an extra 34lbs."

 

[jojo]

I was watching something about recycling on the box just now (shame on me, I know) And it started me thinking that all the natural fibre garments will degrade quite nicely at the end of their useful life, but, all those artificial, man made fibres on the other hand will just leave a pile of toxic waste, won't they ?

 

[mark a.]

All useful information - thanks. As with all points of view there are easy counter-arguments, so my assertion that we should all wear 100% wool is, of course, baloney. I could easily have started a thread about "Why not all synthethic?", extolling its virtues of light weight, robustness, compactness, recyclability (if you're Patagonia, that is) and so on.

However, having spent a lot of time in the mountains with both synthetic and wool (most of it merino), I've learned quite a lot and really think wool is excellent for so many things. My synthetic shirts were essentially ignored. My Buffalo mountain shirt is great when the conditions are right (i.e. freezing cold, heavy cloud and generally very nasty) but the merino comes out when I need the flexibility. My synthetic Bridgedale socks were only used when my Smartwool socks really, really needed a wash!

I still use synthetics over wool in some places. My mountain hat is synthetic, but that's mainly because it still works (and has nice ear flaps) so I haven't needed to replace it. My thin liner gloves are synthetic too - my wife's Icebreaker ones quickly ripped to shreds as soon as we started scrambling. Plus of course the Goretex shells would be hard to beat.

I haven't tried merino underwear (although my wife has and thinks it's great) although I suspect for mountaineering synthetic might be better (all mine is unfortunately cotton which is horrible when it gets wet) nor do I have wool trousers. But I'd like to try!

I wouldn't like to try linen under the wool. The idea of getting to the top of the mountain and have saturated linen (or cotton or whatever) freezing me to death doesn't really appeal. Maybe it's a good technique when ambling around in the summer.

Thanks again for all the thoughts.