Modern vs Old materials

[Viking]

Nowadays most of us use modern materials like Gore Tex and fleece these things are light keep you dry and warm. All these clothes made of these materials have modern zippers here and there that makes them easy to take on and off. If something gets broken we just buy new because it cant be fixed.

Older clothes is made of materials such as cotton, wool and leather they don´t have zippers and only have few simple buttons. If these clothes get ripped or lose a button we can easy fix them with some needle and thread. Something that we even can fix in the field. These clothes will work in most weathers, gore tex will only down to -20 and then stops working cotton will work fine in -40 and in +40. So why is it so hard to find clothes that are made old style and in natural materials?

Personally I always looking for clothes in natural materials and that are made in the old style. The places to find things like this is in surplus shops and second hands shops, but you wont find any modern materials in these shops because they dont last so long...

The downside with the old style stuff in natural materials is that they are often very heavy and take some more time to dry. But there are many things that were a lot better before. Rucksacks for example I have tried a 70 l frame rucksack from the 70´s made of cotton and aluminium and with a carrying system that even a chiropraktor said was better then many modern ones. This rucksack was lighter and more comfortable carrying then many modern ones and the best part, made of cotton and leather made it very easy to repair.

I know the big companies make a lot of many on producing all these new clothes and kit but why do they not also make the old style?

What items in natural materials and in old style have you used and what was the bad good with it?

 

[Keith_Beef]

I know the big companies make a lot of many on producing all these new clothes and kit but why do they not also make the old style?

What items in natural materials and in old style have you used and what was the bad good with it?

Vanity, ignorance, fashion.

I heard a story about a historian who was researching what he called the "first industrial revolution", that gave us the plough, water mill, windmill, winch (early crane), among other things.

These were mostly re-discoveries of machinery made of wood, leather, hemp rope, bronze and iron that the Romans had developed and which were lost in the dark ages.

It was the rediscovery of these that made it possible for people to start building large structures in stone again.

Now, this historian saw several applications for these "primitive machines" in developing countries, particularly for irrigation and agricutural projects in rural Africa.

So he spent a long time adapting the designs to local materials and conditions, and then approached several African heads of state and showed his ideas.

The heads of state refused to look at his designs for "primitive, backward, wooden machines". Too primitive, too patronising.

So he went back to the drawing board, replaced the wooden parts with extruded or cast aluminium, the plant fibre ropes with steel cable, the bronze bushes and bearings with nylon and teflon, and went back to the heads of state, where his plans for high-tech aeolian pumping systems were welcomed with open arms.

Many people are like these heads of state. They think that because the materials are modern and the designs are new, then they must be good.

After all, when a company spends hundreds of man-years and millions of Thalers on research, the product just has to be good!.

When further millions are spent on advertising, that just proves how much confidence the company has in its product!

And you said it yourself:

If something gets broken we just buy new because it cant be fixed.

Our culture is caught in a cycle of "wear out quickly and replace often" that is heightened by "fashion".

Keith.

 

[Pappa]

As Huxley wrote in 1932:

"But old clothes are beastly," continued the untiring whisper. "We always throw away old clothes. Ending is better than mending, ending is better than mending, ending is better …"

"Ending is better than mending. The more stitches, the less riches; the more stitches …"

 

[Wayland]

I have to admit I am far more comfortable outdoors in "old" clothing than new. For me old clothing is anything pre 1066.

I do think the cloak is overdue for a revival......

 

[JimH]

Vanity, ignorance, fashion.

Keith.

Agreed. Glad I'm smart enough to see how vain everyone else is

Our culture is caught in a cycle of "wear out quickly and replace often" that is heightened by "fashion".

Keith.

Indeed. I'd argue we have "advanced" to the point where our entire society and its continued economic viability are predicated on that very cycle continuing (at increasing pace)

Prolly a bit too political, though

To attend to the thread, clothingwise I try to use natural fibres/materials where possible/practical. There is a fair bit of weight penalty, but I'm no fellrunner so not bothered.

Non-clothing kit seems trickier, and the weight penalties often pretty severe (tents spring to mind) so I'm a bit more up to date.

Jim.

 

[jamesdevine]

It's been said before I known and JimH has just touched on it and that is not everythink old is great and not everything is an improvement.

Balance between both is needed(my Basha for instance a lot lighter the a canvas tarp or tent). That said I do prefer natural clothing and the simplest and durability ofsome old outdoor equipment is certainly more favourable the new complecated idea's. Theremarest springs to mind. Expensive and from what I have heard prone to a puncture. I toss my £5 foam mat about it's weightless and with a little bit of time some leaf litter underneat I have comfy matress. Fo me the foam matress is a perfect example of the balance of old and new.

I have also been looking a the cloaks. Again simple and proven as well as having multiple uses.

James

 

[Moine]

I don't care if it's new or old. I just want my gear to do it's job well.

For me, Gore-Tex is not breathable enough. In slightly cold weather and light rain, the Swannie does it for me (old gear). In a heavy shower, I dig out a Ferrino poncho with a reflective inner side (modern gear). Once soaked wet, Gore-Tex is not breathable anyway. I prefer leather for a knife sheath (old gear). But I love cordura and strong nylons for my packs (modern gear)... I don't like cotton for packs. I love cotton for super-cold weather though...

The list goes on...

David

 

[Gary]

Old materials can still be used to make new clothes! Take Swandri's for instance.


The problem is bushcrafts probably make up less and 1% of most outdoors companies customer base and as such they aren't going to bat an eyelid about dressing us!

More of a concern to me at present is dressing in a manor were I dont look like a wanna be soldier - as a soldier we used to take the michael out of such sad saps - for now the last thing I wanna do is become that which I joked about for so long when I was serving!

 

[Ogden]

For years I used Polartec thermal pro, and Brynje as base layer, but I returned to wool (woolmix / ullfrotte). My gaiters are still made of canvas, shoes are always heavy leather. I don´t use gore-Tex, my shell is a polycotton overall. But my new mid-layer is a sleeka light! Cotton or wool on the head, but hightec gloves.
my backpack has an external frame, but it´s combined with a 109 l Ortlieb.
Tent and sleeping-bag always as modern and artificial as possible.

 

[JimH]

The problem is bushcrafts probably make up less and 1% of most outdoors companies customer base and as such they aren't going to bat an eyelid about dressing us!

Especially as most of the stuff we want never wears out!!!

More of a concern to me at present is dressing in a manor were I dont look like a wanna be soldier - as a soldier we used to take the michael out of such sad saps - for now the last thing I wanna do is become that which I joked about for so long when I was serving!

Never served in any capacity whatsoever, but I appreciate your point, as I'd rather not be taken for some kind of fantasist/merchant banker(for the Cockneys) who thinks he's in the SAS. Consequently I won't wear DPM or much current UK surplus. The Swedish stuff, OTOH, seems more sort of generic greenish than overtly military, so somehow I think that's OK

Real Swedish army members are, of course, free to take the mickey. Seems only fair, as I now own most of their QM branch...

Dressing as Ray Mears on a (semi) continuous basis is, of course, perfectly rational and in no way the kind of idolatry that would have my late (Methodist)grandparents reaching 1500 RPM .

Jim.

 

[Viking]

Real Swedish army members are, of course, free to take the mickey. Seems only fair, as I now own most of their QM branch...

Jim.

The good thing with the swedish army clothing is that it´s only the uniform (jacket, trouser and cap) that are in camouflage and wearing that will make you look like a soldier. The rest of the clothing is green and used by most people that has served. Then there is the old m59 system were the whole uniform is green and that still is very popular (especially the trousers and shirts). Some parts are still in use like the shirt and cap and after watching som episedes of RM´s Bushcraft I can see that he also likes the old m59 shirt and cap.