i agree spandit a lot of young lads see the bull breeds as a badge to make them look hard these are the people who are getting these dogs banned and they have no iterest in the dogs just a macho image
opinions on dog hunting?
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i agree spandit a lot of young lads see the bull breeds as a badge to make them look hard these are the people who are getting these dogs banned and they have no iterest in the dogs just a macho image
That said, I see so many dogs that are badly trained - people walking them in harnesses or halti collars - teaching a dog to walk on a slack lead takes a little patience but I'm always proud of Jarvis when he does it (especially when he sits down at every kerb to wait for my instruction to cross). Apologies for the thread creep
I prefer to see my mate's cat hunt dog. Seriously funny and would deffo earn me £250 on you;ve been framed. It is semi-feral and mostly hunts for its own food but always brings it back to his house for storage for wet nights when hunting is bad. Not nice to get woken up by the cat crunching on a rabbit's skull!! Anyway it has a complete dislike for dogs but it has no fear. It stalks them then dashes past taking a well aimed swipe before disappearing into the vegetation. The dog I saw it happen to spun round (the wrong way as it had no idea where the pain came from) but its attacker was well undercover. I know its not nice but it was kinda funny. A real hunter for sure. After a few swipes the dog was as jumpy as hell, couldn't settle but despite being on edge it still never saw the cat. Its owner had to put it back in their car. The cat then sat on the bonnet!! ~Not joking, serious.
IIRC there was a documentary on the life of bonobos or some similar, closely related species and they're pretty bloodthirsty animals who favour meat strongly. The meat goes to the strongest and their allies. Its harsh and violent. They are more like us than we care to admit. Sex and meat are their two favourite things and often coincide (like the female who eats the dominant male's piece of monkey meat while he's otherwise engaged).
Dogs are pack animals a form of socialisation which is simple. The bonobos have a higher degree of sophistication in their groups. IIRC Dog packs might recognise say 30 individuals and the average human is supposed to have a "pack" of over 100 people they recognise and remember a chimp has something between 60 and 100.
All I can say is we find dogs useful (particularly in the past days of hunting for food) which has become part of our culture but do not anthromorphise the relationship. It is only the case that the dog at the hearth has its pack and knows its place in it that makes it happy and willing to stay. And on the other side it is only that we still get something back from them that means we keep them. We are not close to them and indeed many people do not know them. The wolf at your hearth is still a good analogy as the dog is still a relatively simple pack animal with a chunk of the wolf instinct still in it.
As for the hunting of the rabbits by the chav guy. That IMHO is not hunting its blooding. Its not much better than the guy who buys a live rabbit as a present for his mate so he can "blood" his pitbull. That is no different to the guy dropping his pitbull into the box with the rabbit to blood it and the guy who sets his dog on the rabbit like it sounds that chav did. This is separate to hunting with dogs. It is not hunting in anyway shape or form. It is not vermin control (if it was the dog should have be set on him) its not hunting for food. It is the taking of another animal's life for entertainment. Is that right in anyone's books? I seriously hope not.
personally this guy should have had a pack of dogs let on him. i see this all the time in Murlough (the natural trust reserve i walk my wee jack russell in) i have on a day counted THREE freshly mutilated rabbit bodies from the local man-boys out with their staffys and bull terriers, its sickening
Sorry if I was a but judgemental above, don't mean to but I dislike irresponsible dog ownership which I think that pitbull owner clearly exhibited.
BTW Staffies and pitbulls are becoming less desirable as the "hard dog" image. Due to legislation and increased dog seizures I think they are not as popular in that culture. They are now breeding them with mastiff breeds. You still get powerful dogs but they are slightly bigger and the head and particularly the mouth of the dog is becoming bigger with the mastiff in the mix. These mixes can be big or smaller like staffies (which IME of seeing them in rescue centres are actually nice dogs in the right hands). However if you've ever seen a pedigree mastiff the jaws are probably capable of taking the head of a small adult or a child or at least the face in a way the smaller pitbulls couldn't.
Whatever is in the mix of the dog it is a sign of being pathetic IMHO to have to have a dog for machismo or image. However you can see the point. IF you kill a guy with a knife or gun you will go to jail for some time. If you set a vicious dog on them and they die you get about £1500 in fines and costs and the dog taken off you. If you have cause to kill then a dog is a good option. Especially so since you can pay off the fine in monthly instalments too!!
Sorry rant over.
BTW Staffies and pitbulls are becoming less desirable as the "hard dog" image. Due to legislation and increased dog seizures I think they are not as popular in that culture. They are now breeding them with mastiff breeds. You still get powerful dogs but they are slightly bigger and the head and particularly the mouth of the dog is becoming bigger with the mastiff in the mix. These mixes can be big or smaller like staffies (which IME of seeing them in rescue centres are actually nice dogs in the right hands). However if you've ever seen a pedigree mastiff the jaws are probably capable of taking the head of a small adult or a child or at least the face in a way the smaller pitbulls couldn't.
Whatever is in the mix of the dog it is a sign of being pathetic IMHO to have to have a dog for machismo or image. However you can see the point. IF you kill a guy with a knife or gun you will go to jail for some time. If you set a vicious dog on them and they die you get about £1500 in fines and costs and the dog taken off you. If you have cause to kill then a dog is a good option. Especially so since you can pay off the fine in monthly instalments too!!
Sorry rant over.
A lot of assertions, shame there's little fact in them........nice to know your opinions though.
just to clarify ; bonobo (pan paniscus) are in ape terms relatively peaceful. as you mention sex is widely used as a means to dissipate conflict, reinforce family bonds, maintain hierarchecal structure. but meat is a very small portion of their diet and is usually in the form of invertabrates.
whereas ; chimpanzee (pan troglodytes) are psychotic, abhorrant and far too human for their own good. meat in this species is highly prized and there are well documented multiple instances of cannabalism.
anyhoo
rabbits are one of two exemptions to the wildlife and countryside act 1981 (the other being rats)
which places them as vermin and is why they are also exempt from the hunting with dogs act 2004 and why you'll never find them in the general open license and why you can hunt them during the hours of darkness, on a sunday etc.
obviously all this is subject to previous legislature; ie. protection of animals act 1934 and the animal welfare act 2006, regarding humane despatch and methods but in theory they (rabbits and rats) could be put in a cannon if it was a humane despatch.
just thought i'd mention it as the thread had strayed into ''my dog is so well trained'' territory.
i would just like to say all stafford owners are not thugs!! the few of us who do condition and look after our dogs are getting a bad rap because of guys like this letting his dogs run free after rabbits in a public place..the guy who owns this dog is an accident waiting to happen..if you see him again get him reported to the police...
I don't have a problem with hunting with dogs, as long as it's done with a thought to a quick kill. A jack russell on rats or rabbits is quick. A lurcher ditto. A pack of hounds chasing a fox for hours isn't.
Hunting with a cat - now that could be fun. My cat was a dab hand at getting squirrels. He'd wait halfway up an oak tree, spread-eagled on the trunk, for ages. Squirrels hide on other side of trunk - until someone comes past, they run round the tree and . . . crunch.
I never actually saw him take a duck, but he would come in sometimes with a mallard, soaking wet. Don't know if he dropped on them from a tree or swam after them. Either was likely with that cat.
Hunting with a cat - now that could be fun. My cat was a dab hand at getting squirrels. He'd wait halfway up an oak tree, spread-eagled on the trunk, for ages. Squirrels hide on other side of trunk - until someone comes past, they run round the tree and . . . crunch.
I never actually saw him take a duck, but he would come in sometimes with a mallard, soaking wet. Don't know if he dropped on them from a tree or swam after them. Either was likely with that cat.
In your opinion. It is ridiculous to say we are more in common with dogs than our closest species. It is opinion and emotion though and I do agree in some ways that emotionally we are more attached to dogs than other animals but we are not closer to them. My comments do hold in that we are more sophisticated socially than dogs and so are bonobos which are close to us in that respect than dogs are whether you agree with that or not. And it is nice to know your opinions too. Aren't we being polite??
I suggested we had more things in common with dogs than we do with bonobos, (excluding genetics)........as you said it's only my opinion, but I base it on experience & observation...... not emotion
On what basis do you claim that we are more socially sophisticated than dogs.?.....do you have or have ever had a dog.?
I don't know about being polite but other people's views always interest me............cheers.
i think the fella in question was wrong. as to the question, why dogs not guns? in my opinion, people use dogs (or in my case hawks) to catch the rabbit as the quarry has the chance to escape even with a good dog. if your a good shooter that rabbit stands no chance. the way this fella's dog killed the rabbit was inhumane, but probably not trained for hunting and just chased it because it ran. us falconers, when training our hawks on dummy bunny's keep pulling the pretend rabbit when the hawk has caught it until it grabs the head, the hawk learns the rabbit stops when the head is grabbed. this in-turn trains the hawk to grab the rabbit by the head which humanely kills the rabbit.
I've had many, many dogs. More importantly for observing their social structure, I've had (or been around) them in packs. I've personally had packs of farm dogs and bird dogs; my cousin kept packs of coon dogs(Black & Tan Coondogs and Blueticks); one of my hunting group kept packs of deer dogs; and another kept packs of fox dogs (Walkers usually) and more recently a roomate brought a pack of Golden Retrievers which integrated with my Wolf/Malamute.
Yes their social structure is much, much less complex then ours. It's simple really. They have a pecking order in which the biggest, baddest sob among them is the boss and gets 1st choice of everything and the rest follow his lead. The same with the females; she gets pretty much whatever she wants (including taking puppies from lesser bitches if she wants them)
Disputes in the pecking order often result in the weaker dog being killed if an owner isn't there to seperate them. That is pretty much the sum total of their social structure.
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why dogs not guns?
more likely to get stopped with a gun as stated above.
it is more likely the dog will either kill it or miss it completely, whereas a gun can miss but still injure the animal.
the animal stands a chance.
its natural, predator vs prey.
more likely to get stopped with a gun as stated above.
it is more likely the dog will either kill it or miss it completely, whereas a gun can miss but still injure the animal.
the animal stands a chance.
its natural, predator vs prey.
Why dogs & not guns.?......hunting with dogs is more hands on, you're also working in tandem with the dog(s) trying to out wit the prey, it is more violent, more bloody & prehaps satisfies some of our more base primitive impulses.........hunting with guns is more clinical, mechanical,colder, distant.......prehaps it could be likened to an execution.........as for which is better or more humaine, who can objectively say ?
