Could you truely survive?

[robin wood]

A Canadian winter would finish me off. Did you see this film http://www.nfb.ca/playlist/winter-across-canada/viewing/cree_hunters/ it gives an idea of what is needed to live off the land through a Canadian winter, cooperation, teamwork, forward planning, laying in supplies for weeks when hunting is unsuccessful, rifles. With shelter, fire and water you can last a month, food I could imagine doing in Summer and Autumn but no chance otherwise.

 

[budgetbus]

Are zombies involved ? lol

 

[pete79]

As someone who lives in a remote part of Canada, I think that most people would perish. A lot of people get the idea that the place is teeming with game and resources, and that's not the case at all. There's a lot of game about, but it's spread out over a large area, and it also wants nothing to do with you. If you got something, then you're in food for a while, but you need the ability to cover a lot of ground to get it.
Mr Wardle was kicking about very close to where I live, and I made a point of watching his TV program. I don't want to start the "Alone in the wild" debate which was going a few months back on here, but I think well done to him for trying (he's a brave guy) but he really should have talked to some more people before he began and he really should have got his ideas straight before he did. I got that sense from his program that he'd entered into it with ideas of abundant game (and in particular rivers full of salmon) and discovered that the reality was different.
I think the majority of people would perish in remote Canada. This includes me.

 

[forestwalker]

As others have stated it all depends, on things like where, when and how long.

I've done -- with the Swedish Survival Guild -- a 10 day trek with no more kit than clothes (minimun extras, no FC sticks, no knives, no matches, etc). This was in July, in south-northern Sweden (Medelpad), so the major point of irritation was the mosquitos. We probably could have added a week or so with no major additional hardship, in particular of we had done less walking and just make a nice camp and hung out. After that it all boils down to malnutrition and/or hypothermia. The merry lads in NI gave the medical researchers plenty of data on how long someone can survive with no food, and that is a surprising amount of time. But longer than 3 weeks or so some hunting or fishing is needed to stay in good shape (you can survive with no food, but you will loose muscle mass quite fast), as well as a good foraging strategy.

This time of year life is harder. Nights down towards -15C, days around 0C, a couple of inches of snow. Without a fire or a proper set of clothes we are talking at most a couple of days before the hypothermia sets in. Friction fire is hard this time of year, it is cold, things are wet, and without a good fire there no way to get dry or warm. In true winter it is even harder; no skis or snowshoes means no effective travel, and nights can be brutal.

Long term? If I hade the tools to kill a grown moose (and they are not quite likely to come wandering into camp and stand there waiting for you to run up to it with a spear I'd have basic food for the winter, but would prefer to add something fattier to that. But then the absolute minimum kit would be clothes (good and proper ones), bedding (sleeping bag, etc), an axe, a knife, some way to make fire (FC is ok) and a rifle (say a over-under combo .222rem/12 ga) and ammunition. A cookpot would be nice, almost essential, as well. And that would assume that I get a moose and that I do not get sick or injured. Alone you are terribly vulnerable. Check out Les Strouds "Snowshoes and Solitude" movie (youtube, or buy) for a two person experiment in this style.

And with that minimal kit making snowshoes means I'd have to make a stone- or bone-tipped drill, before I can begin with the snowshoes, which I can't make before I have the moosehide to cut strips from. And a toboggan will take several days of work with knife and axe. Firewood would be bloody hard work, on a continous basis. A good shelter takes time and effort as well.

Basiclally, I'm better prepared for this than at least 4 nines (99.99%) of the population, and I would in October not give myself more than 10 days at most, I could easilly make it over the summer unless something happens, and no bloody way for the winter without the proper kit (and risky as hell with the kit listed above).

 

[Fin]

Central or South American Tropical rainforest? As long as I stayed disease free then pretty much indefinitely (although the lack of cutting tools would be a serious bummer) the place is one big self service restaurant if you know what you're looking for. I would starve to death in short order were the environment to be Northern forest or even a Western European winter. There would be work arounds for shelter, water and fire, but food would be the real problem.

Bushcraftsman's scenario leads me with an interesting thought...

As a military pilot I am encouraged never to fly without my "go bag" (bug out bag if you like) - This enables us to survive for up to a week in pretty much any environment. Amongst comfort items like sleeping bag, bivi, food and cookset are the other essentials we all know - cutting tools - knife, axe and a multitool plus at least two means of starting a fire. As a passenger on a civilian airliner I am forbidden to carry these items. When flying to the States - airliners generally fly a great circle that takes them over Greenland and Northern Canada. The last time I flew to the States I was looking out of the window at hour upon hour of frozen nothingness. Our destination was Phoenix Sky Harbour and I had packed for Southern Arizona's weather. It occured to me then - "If we have to put down here - we are going to be in serious trouble". It would be interesting to see what survival equipment the airlines carry on board - in denying us the means of personal survival - I hope it's substantial!

 

[Lupin Rider]

you'd want to have read samuel hearne's "journey to the northern ocean". . .

 

[Whittler Kev]

I recon I could fashion a sharp from stone and could light a fire by friction so I recon I could survive for a fair while, but not live as this takes much more effort. At least a year to set up IMHO

 

[Ray Britton]

JonathanD

Thanks for answering that. It is basically what I would have said. To be honest, I wasn't planning on dying in the first minutes, but rather would not last more than a month due to the finite (as mentioned by JD) amount of medication.

In reference to the original scenario, a plane is a bit too easy to ensure you have multiple supplies. In fact it it were a large passenger aircraft, the fire lighting supplies etc would be more than enough for months of daily use (more than a year for very large aircraft. While many folks come up with usual ideas such as fuel and (oddly, unless it is a very small aircraft...As in where would you start to look for a battery on a 200 seat multi jet engined airliner!) batteries. Once you were on the ground, it would soon be discovered that large parts of the aircraft's structure are very flammable, not to mention there may be some stored oxygen to be found (yet again, if you know where to look), which will turbo boost any fire!. Lastly on batteries, if you remove the power source, then you will not be able to run the navigation/anti collision lights, which are excellent night time rescue aids.

It could also be said that if the aircraft came down in a good enough condition for you to survive, then instead of ripping out the battery, simply use it to power the radio(s) and call for your own rescue, and give your EXACT position using the aircraft's GPS system.

To make our survival harder, assume we have fallen out of a boat (you can still have your suitcase) which then sailed off down river, and your starting point is an unknown river bank.

 

[forestwalker]

To make our survival harder, assume we have fallen out of a boat (you can still have your suitcase) which then sailed off down river, and your starting point is an unknown river bank.

Here and now (-6 C in the air, probably +1 C in the river) I'd be dead within 30 minutes at most in the river (depends on what I was wearing). Out of the water before I get hypothermia, manage to start a fire, with the stuff I have in my day-pack when out hunting and te clothes thay goes with it; a week or a few (since I then have proper and plenty clothes, knife, axe, firestarting kit, etc).

If I was going to work, my car goes over the side of a bridge, I get out and swim to the shore, bringing only my work day-pack (I don't love my macbook *that* much, but ok), then life is much harder. I probbly would nort be wearing my wool beanie, and the best I could come up with for firestarting is a FC on the keys in my pocket and a lockblade SAK in my pocket. No axe, no extra socks, no nice wool pants and matching undies. Again, if I managed to start a fire and keep it going I could survive, but this time for a few days at most (not enough tools, not enough clothes). In summer, well then we would be talking "over the summer, at least a month, perhaps two".

 

[durulz]

I think I have the skills to provide shelter and warmth. In that respect, I'd give a good account of myself.
But I think lack of food and water would take me down. Also, I'm not sure I have the right mind-set - prone to melancholy at the best of times.
So, no - I wouldn't survive for any real length of time.
That said, I think human beings are incredble animals and you have no way of knowing what privations and hardships you are capable of enduring until you have to undergo them. That goes for readers of BCUK/bushcrafters as well as those with no interest in the subject. Just because you read BCUK doesn't necessarily give you a head start. Humans are clever and brave animals and since time began have shown an ability to adapt and survive.
Until you have to, you will ultimately never know - whether you are into bushcraft or not.

 

[Andy B]

Hi,

An interesting question.

I think if you had practised skills and learned what works and what dosnt work then you would have a better chance. Shelter's easy compared to hunting and fire. I think insects for food would be best. If these is no stone you could make a knife with it would be very difficult. Even with flint making anything without much practise is very hard compared to using steel.

If you had nothing but your clothes in anything but high summer you would find it hard as hell.

 

[forestwalker]

I think I have the skills to provide shelter and warmth. In that respect, I'd give a good account of myself.

I think one thing to remember is that this can be anything from easy to bl**dy hard. It all depends on where and when you are.

And that kit is important (at least in some places), and that the plane in itself is enogh kit to last for a long time. And numbers is important, alone you are vulnerable, one bout of disease, one injury...

 

[Andy T]

Does anyone think they could not only survive but actually live in this country ? I suppose the obvious place to go would be the coast, there are plenty of caves around our shoreline. A couple of possible problems i think would be a, could you afford to really make any cave comfortable to live in without someone coming along and nicking all your kit b, i reckon i would need around £20 a week to buy things that don't grow very well in this country i.e coffee and tobacco.

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

firstly forget about your bushcraft survival kit it's expendable...yeah...imagine that....gone! forever!

When i was working for a well known survival company, often around the camp-fire this discussion would come up,
there are several considerations:

Availability of food vs. energy spent collecting it/making it palatable, and ability to store food. (i.e. fruit/nuts/veg are only available some of the year).

I think it's possible, there are many examples of people surviving sometimes for years in inhospitable places with little practical experience. but modern day life I think increasingly makes this harder.
living as a pre-history "hunter gatherer" with the additional modern knowledge about chemical reactions, bacteria, health, physiology, I think it might be harder than we think!
I think there's a certain freeness that pre-history people had like:
Animal (in fact anything that moves) is food
Bacteria & germs do not exist.
Help/support will not come.

for us (for an indefinite period) we'd have to change:
we'd have to be mentally very secure.
we'd have to be able to cope with health issues as they came up.
we'd have to make life saving decisions and live with the consequences.
we'd have to instantly drop a lot of modern concerns like: Time, H&S(the taught things), legislation (which is harder than you think).

There has been some sort of study can't quote it but it mentioned something like for a person to survive for an indefinite period and having enough space to hunt, grow crops and forage a single man would require 1 square mile (or was it more than that 10 square miles?, i don't remember) anyway technically speaking there isn't enough space in the UK for everyone to do this.

Given a TEOTWAWKI (The end Of The World As We Know It) situation oh you know, plague, zombie apocalypse... half the problem would be trying to fight off the other survivors scavenging your supplies as you try to start a bushcraft hunting/farming community...

but me, on my own, in the wilderness, forever, I like to think so, but , lots would change in a persons character, and you'd need lots of luck and an unending supply of will power!....I can't say.

 

[sandbender]

Does anyone think they could not only survive but actually live in this country ? I suppose the obvious place to go would be the coast, there are plenty of caves around our shoreline. A couple of possible problems i think would be a, could you afford to really make any cave comfortable to live in without someone coming along and nicking all your kit b, i reckon i would need around £20 a week to buy things that don't grow very well in this country i.e coffee and tobacco.

If you are asking, could someone live in a coastal cave and survive indefinitely simply by foraging, fishing and trapping, then the answer (IMHO) is no. Could you survive indefinitely elsewhere in the UK? No again. You might be quite good at what your doing and be able to get by for a fair bit but ultimately the elements and diet will take a toll. This of course presuming that someone doesn't report "some freak living in a cave" to the authorities and you find yourself getting sectioned.

Now if you can pool your resources with other like minded individuals, many family groups working together for the benefit of all, having enough land to grow crops and raise livestock and simultaneously somehow managing to cope with how the outside world might want to interfere in your chosen way of life, then you might be onto something. Think 'the Amish' rather than 'John Rambo'.

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

If you are asking, could someone live in a coastal cave and survive indefinitely simply by foraging, fishing and trapping, then the answer (IMHO) is no. Could you survive indefinitely elsewhere in the UK? No again. You might be quite good at what your doing and be able to get by for a fair bit but ultimately the elements and diet will take a toll. This of course presuming that someone doesn't report "some freak living in a cave" to the authorities and you find yourself getting sectioned.

Now if you can pool your resources with other like minded individuals, many family groups working together for the benefit of all, having enough land to grow crops and raise livestock and simultaneously somehow managing to cope with how the outside world might want to interfere in your chosen way of life, then you might be onto something. Think 'the Amish' rather than 'John Rambo'.

with a sprinkle of Ray mears and a healthy chunk of Bear Grylls (for the bad harvest days lol)

 

[Bushwhacker]

I don't think I could survive long term just die slower

Probably the best answer I've ever seen.

 

[superc0ntra]

I would survive but that's about it. Wouldn't lead a comfortable life and from experience know I'll be hungry all the time. I'm better at keeping warm than my belly full and know I can start and keep a fire running as well as how much fuel is needed etc. Know some around 10 to 15 edible plants but how I'd manage would be largely dependent on what's around. On my plus side I don't have a sensitive stomach so taste would be less of an issue.
Edit: The above applies to southern. Outside that area I'd probably be dead.

 

[JonathanD]

Nope, I'd die.

 

[Toddy]

Could I survive ?

Don't know, but I do know I'd give it a damned good try

cheers,
Toddy