Romance or Madness (of The Long Distance Defender Owner)?
- Thread starter Klenchblaize
- Start date
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This is what people associate with Land Rovers:
This is what people associate with Toyota:
Which is more effective?............
Well, on the evidence that one appears to need to be delivered by helicopter, and even then the doors fell off, whereas the other appears to have been driven into situ and be an unmodified commercially available vehicle that does not need ridiculous amounts of logistical support then
"The car in front....is a Toyota"
Just as well, because when its throttle sticks open, and the brakes fail, that's where you'd want it to be.
Interesting this argument. Can I just add a few things I know about and have happened to Landies and the other options? I would like to point out that I have bever owned or driven a 4x4 so my opinion doesn't matter but the storied following did happen.
1) A few years ago a relative (who will remain un-named) was stuck on the beach with the tide coming in. She was in her BF's top of the range fully specced Mitsubishi Shogun. From what I understand it was about 3 months old and was the best version they did at that time. Winches etc included. It got stuck so he called the local Mitsubishi dealership. They said no probs we will be round in 10 minutes to fish you out. What did they bring? A 6 year old close to bottom or range /. base model Landie without and winches or additions. They drove it round then attached the guy's tow line to it and drove off the beach dragging the shogun through the now rising sea level and further up the beach the soft, dry sand and back onto the road.
2) A former colleague lived in S Africa and later went back. They always had a Hilux as did most of the people they knew. The reason why was that the landies had poor comfort and when off road or on the minor roads out there were next to rubbish according to them. Landies were not well regarded.
3) I know of a few people who curse their landie on the road but rate them off it highly. One guy had a 1956 former army landie with extended fuel tanks. It was bombproof reliability he says. Put it this way he rarely had to do much work on it and if he did could do it himself. Wish that was true of my 2002 astra!
4) My Dad worked on highways (new build) as a consultant engineer. He was alwaays given as part of the contract a brand new Landie. Sometimes the double cab one but always a good spec. He always said the reason was that they were the best vehicle for a road site. One saturday he had to check a road site where a cuting was done. Involved driving up a 45 degree slope on the side of a cutting cliff that had a vertical drop and cliff either side of the track (which was only a little bit wider than the landie). Anyway since it was raining heavily the track of sorts we were driving up was covered in mud. In fact it was a cross betwween mud and a river. It was going over the bonnet abouthalf way up. Still at no point did the landie appear troubled by it. Even when we stopped so my Dadd could look at something diid it have any trouble. Just started off again and got us out of it. Now anything that can do that IMHO is not a bad vehicle.
5) My Dad later on had a broken window on another landie on another road site many years later. H&S rules meant he couldn't use it. The contractors didn't have any other landie for him so he was given (against his judgement and will) a Hilux pickup. Still he drove it around waiting for a new landie which he later turned down. He was a die-hard landie driver for work purposes (hated in road so rarely drove it on road). In his opinion the hilux was much better off road than any landie he had driven. It was no better on road unless you had a few hundredweight of earth in the back. This is how he drove it. With the extra weight in the back he said it kind of handled like a car on road and the off road performance wasn't used.
Anyway, as you can see from these stories and opinions of people who's opinions I value and who's experience of off road driving is from a working life of doing it, I have no conclusive opinion as to which is best. My only conclussion is thata landie can be very good and can be bad as can the other options. I do think if you want a 4x4 get one and leve the soft roaders behind. Also if it has the bells and whistles it still might not do the business if the most important extra is not up to the job. That most important ezxtra is a driver who can drive it in the conditions that they were made for.
One more thing, in SA the former work colleague said that theehilux or amazon or mistubushis are more popular out there and that is they can come with air conditioning and cruise control for road. not sure how accurate this is but they kind of were telling me that it was the comfort as well as handling that won the foreign cars their favour.
1) A few years ago a relative (who will remain un-named) was stuck on the beach with the tide coming in. She was in her BF's top of the range fully specced Mitsubishi Shogun. From what I understand it was about 3 months old and was the best version they did at that time. Winches etc included. It got stuck so he called the local Mitsubishi dealership. They said no probs we will be round in 10 minutes to fish you out. What did they bring? A 6 year old close to bottom or range /. base model Landie without and winches or additions. They drove it round then attached the guy's tow line to it and drove off the beach dragging the shogun through the now rising sea level and further up the beach the soft, dry sand and back onto the road.
2) A former colleague lived in S Africa and later went back. They always had a Hilux as did most of the people they knew. The reason why was that the landies had poor comfort and when off road or on the minor roads out there were next to rubbish according to them. Landies were not well regarded.
3) I know of a few people who curse their landie on the road but rate them off it highly. One guy had a 1956 former army landie with extended fuel tanks. It was bombproof reliability he says. Put it this way he rarely had to do much work on it and if he did could do it himself. Wish that was true of my 2002 astra!
4) My Dad worked on highways (new build) as a consultant engineer. He was alwaays given as part of the contract a brand new Landie. Sometimes the double cab one but always a good spec. He always said the reason was that they were the best vehicle for a road site. One saturday he had to check a road site where a cuting was done. Involved driving up a 45 degree slope on the side of a cutting cliff that had a vertical drop and cliff either side of the track (which was only a little bit wider than the landie). Anyway since it was raining heavily the track of sorts we were driving up was covered in mud. In fact it was a cross betwween mud and a river. It was going over the bonnet abouthalf way up. Still at no point did the landie appear troubled by it. Even when we stopped so my Dadd could look at something diid it have any trouble. Just started off again and got us out of it. Now anything that can do that IMHO is not a bad vehicle.
5) My Dad later on had a broken window on another landie on another road site many years later. H&S rules meant he couldn't use it. The contractors didn't have any other landie for him so he was given (against his judgement and will) a Hilux pickup. Still he drove it around waiting for a new landie which he later turned down. He was a die-hard landie driver for work purposes (hated in road so rarely drove it on road). In his opinion the hilux was much better off road than any landie he had driven. It was no better on road unless you had a few hundredweight of earth in the back. This is how he drove it. With the extra weight in the back he said it kind of handled like a car on road and the off road performance wasn't used.
Anyway, as you can see from these stories and opinions of people who's opinions I value and who's experience of off road driving is from a working life of doing it, I have no conclusive opinion as to which is best. My only conclussion is thata landie can be very good and can be bad as can the other options. I do think if you want a 4x4 get one and leve the soft roaders behind. Also if it has the bells and whistles it still might not do the business if the most important extra is not up to the job. That most important ezxtra is a driver who can drive it in the conditions that they were made for.
One more thing, in SA the former work colleague said that theehilux or amazon or mistubushis are more popular out there and that is they can come with air conditioning and cruise control for road. not sure how accurate this is but they kind of were telling me that it was the comfort as well as handling that won the foreign cars their favour.
D
Dagan
Guest
for my sins, i work for a landrover dealer(don't stone me just yet), and have obviously seen a few pass through the doors, in my experience, general reliability is comparable to most other cars as capable, the problem is that there are just some landrovers that are complete pups(yes definately more than the japs!)! if you get a good one, it will serve you well for years to come, but, if you get a pup, it will be a money pit, and every thing you fix will just lead to more problems, age seems to have no bearing on this. so if you need the abilities of a landrover, check the history, if it's had nothing major go wrong, it's prob a goodun, also, strangley, if they're used of road, they seem to leak less, don't know why.
This is what people associate with Land Rovers:
This is what people associate with Toyota:
Which is more effective?............
Currently?
Looks like the Toyota doesn't need as much regular maintenance and runs better.
I wouldn't have a modern Land Rover given unless I could flog it.
Chatting with colleagues when I was last in Jo'burg, I mentioned my LR addiction (have had 90, SII, 110, SI, 127, currently eyeing up a new 90). They laughed their a*ses off. Made it clear that in their opinions if you entrusted your life to something with a LR's reliability then you're going to end up dead - not out in the bush (any mug can get himself killed there by poor preparation), but shot by the side of the road when it packs up on an urban highway. That's a country where reliability is everything...
Indeed - but they don't - all three Landies I had needed their doors replaced and on a Station Wagon that's a lot of money, even using second-hand ones. The bulkheads went as well and the last one I had really needed a new chassis and that one was only 12 years old at the time. They all had gear-box problems at about 90,000 miles and the all (V8's) had cam problems.
They all leaked, rattled and required constant fettling and fiddling. And I miss all of them.
Mike.
The Landrover thing is inexplicable to me. I am currently driving a 59 plate 110 hardtop for work. I curse its gearbox and clutch daily, I get swollen knees from pushing the pedals while I do yet another 7 point turn, my ears start to ring if I push it above fifty, I rant at the imbecile designer who put the window handle just in front of your shin. I watch as this less than one year old vehicle corrodes before my eyes, and am amazed to see the places where they have had to leave out some of the rivets because the bodywork doesn't fit together properly.
Yet, inexplicably, I love it. I know that when I have to give it back I will be choked.
Point it off the road and onto the mud to do a job of work and it just goes and does it. I have towed out broken and stuck jap pick-ups from the job site and can count on the Landy to happily drag a few tonnes of trailer to places where it is hard going to even walk.
Would I buy one? Yes, tomorrow; the older the better. Would I rely on one as my only wheels? Never.
Z
Yet, inexplicably, I love it. I know that when I have to give it back I will be choked.
Point it off the road and onto the mud to do a job of work and it just goes and does it. I have towed out broken and stuck jap pick-ups from the job site and can count on the Landy to happily drag a few tonnes of trailer to places where it is hard going to even walk.
Would I buy one? Yes, tomorrow; the older the better. Would I rely on one as my only wheels? Never.
Z
Always driven Landrovers in my book you cant beat them , my wife drives a Freelander 2 (her 2nd one) and mines a 110 crewcab , also have a 101 ambulance and a series 2 , 3 x series 3 and a 90 ..........change to jap crap.....not a chance!!
Which is fine in the uk were if you break down the rac or aa can get to you anywhere . But when your life depends on it you would
be a fool to use anything else than Jap crap.
No you wouldn't... you'd be a fool to use anything which has been under maintained. That includes plastic fantastic soluble and disposable pretend 4x4's made in Japan.
Actually that is one thing you can say in favour of japanese 4x4's... the plastic bits and alloy engines don't rust much.
Actually that is one thing you can say in favour of japanese 4x4's... the plastic bits and alloy engines don't rust much.
Landrovers used to be built in the UK, the chassis made from rustproof Birmabright.
When Ford took over after British Leyland and Jaguar, manufacturing was moved to Brazil, they are now owned by the Indian Tata Motors and components still made in Brazil.
75% of British made Landrovers are still in use, allegedly!
The British Army favored the all mechanical 2.5 litre 4-cylinder 300TDi, Tata stopped the production of this in 2007.
When Ford took over after British Leyland and Jaguar, manufacturing was moved to Brazil, they are now owned by the Indian Tata Motors and components still made in Brazil.
75% of British made Landrovers are still in use, allegedly!
The British Army favored the all mechanical 2.5 litre 4-cylinder 300TDi, Tata stopped the production of this in 2007.
Well i have been twice to Morroco in the 110 and no problems a return journey of 2,200miles each time , so i stick by my original thought of Jap crap!
I'll take Jap technology over Indian owned, sweat shop made, British badged any day! I've had both and run both for decades. I got bored with cars where rust proofing is an after market add on
Still made in this country at the moment , Freelander 2 will start to be made over in India at the end of this year!
