How to expand or 'get more room' from a pack?

[iano]

Hi all,

As a bit of a getting-a-degree treat for myself, and because a daysack ain't big enough and an issue bergen is too militant, I got myself a new rucksack yesterday. It's a Lowe Alpine Appalachian 65-85 litre. Tried a couple of packs on in the shop and this seemed the best of the bunch, biggest they had between 2 stores too. 140 notes, but I justified myself by expecting it to last a good few years. Here it is, but not from the store I got it from: http://www.foxsoutdoor.co.uk/rucksacks/backpacking/lowe-alpine-tfx-appalachian-65:85/

Overall I am very happy with it, except for ONE problem:

It's not big enough!

I don't know if it's because I've gotten used to having a 120 litre PLCE bergen to shove full of crap or not. Thing is the bergen is never THAT full.

Here's what I'm packing it with at the moment:

Bottom section: Sleeping bag and bivvi bag, the US issue ones (trying it out with the black, cold weather bag in at the moment, will be better in summer, but as we are moving to a cold country soon I think it's best to try it with this bag, bulky but mega)

Main section: 3 day's rations (will be proper food usually but I feel this is representative)
2 sets of spare base layers (1x T shirt, 1x boxers, 2pr smartwool socks, 2pr thin socks per set, packs down pretty small)
Spare trousers, softshell jacket
Waterproofs (army gtx for representative, but going to get civ soon)
Warm jacket (army softy for representative, but as above)

Side pocket: Hat, gloves, 1pr spare smartwool socks and 1pr thin ones)
Other sidepocket: 58 bottle and mug

Lid: Stove & fuel, water filter, cordage (or shelter, these items being shared between two)
Under lid pocket: Washing tackle

Bungeed to the outside: Sleep mat

My worry at the moment is that there is going to be no/precious little room left for:
First aid kit
Goretex boot liners, survival kit
Canvas emo plimsolls (to let boots dry)
Small trowel for 'shovel recce's'
Microfleece shirt and longjohns in winter
All the other clonk I probably haven't thought of yet
And worst of all, the main section is full without having popped my Camelbak in there! 1x 58 bottle is not going to last long!

I have 28 days to take it back if I decide I don't want it, so I'm thinking to myself how am I going to make this all fit?

I could take it back but there are few very larger and to be honest maybe I need to learn a lesson on packing here?

Or, I could try and jury rig something (zips and clips for a PLCE sidepocket or 2 on the back? Or MOLLE straps?) but to be honest the potential for that to go wrong (pack is not made of mil-spec cordura! or it may just not work, or look ****e) is considerable...

Thoughts?

 

[JonathanD]

How can you not fit that lot in a 85l pack? I can fit that lot in a 45l Sabre with sidepockets.

 

[1234]

have you thought about compression sacks for sleeping bag/clothes
you would have to let them air for about 30 minutes before you use them to let them decompress

waterproof one
http://www.millets.co.uk/rucksacks/compression-sacks-and-stuff-sacks/product/104778.html

or have you thought about keeping you food in another bag, sholder bag at the front

or just buy a bigger rucksack

my 2p worth

 

[sapper1]

Not wishing to be clever but you really should be able to get all that in and more.Where in wales are you ,perhaps there is someone close by who could show you how.

 

[Matt.S]

If the US mil sleeping bag is anything like the PLCE one, it's cheap, warm and tough, but stonkingly big.

I find that compression sacks are a double-edged sword; they can force the whatever into an awkwardly space-wasting shape. Sometimes I find it better to just whack say a sleeping bag in 'as is' and rely on jamming other stuff in tight to keep it to a reasonable volume.

 

[iano]

Believe me I've been outdoors both mil and civ for a while now, not trying to come over as some super experienced sort, but after stuffing it all into a bergen I'm not sure how I could do it any differently, shown or not. It simply does not fit into the 65L I've got. The 'extra 20L' is using up the storm flap and floating lid, I'd rather avoid this if at all possible.

I agree on the compression sacks, they make things smaller but rugby-ball shaped, then you just have a lot of gaps between the various 'rugby balls' in your pack, not ideal. I just roll clothes up tight and use stuffsacks, and swirl the dossbag before putting it in, then cram it in to expel all the air. At least that way it uses 100% of all the nooks and crannies in the pack.

US sleeping bag is indeed on the big side. Like I said in summer it'd work (the green sleeping bag is much smaller than the black). But the black one alone is rated down to -20C. As I'm going to Norway over the entire winter and afterwards am going to be spending a lot of time in Iceland, I think it's a good idea to pack the black one as my 'planning assumption'. To use the summer one only would mean it'd probably be too cold to get out and sleep in it for about 6 months of the year!

 

[JonathanD]

Only one thing for it then. Take it back and get something bigger.

 

[iano]

For what it's worth I'd also prefer avoiding extra bags, shoulder bags and the like. Not ideal when scrambling, leaning into a mountain, that sort of thing.

I could probably get some more space from replacing the sleeping bag, but to be honest, for the reasons above, I want to hold on to the bugger.

Is there anything else I am taking too much of? Softie AND softshell AND waterproofs? My idea was softshell as a do-it-all outer layer and softie as 'warm kit' for when static mainly, or at night, waterproofs for downpours the softshell won't handle.

Cut down to only 1 spare t shirt, boxers and socks? I seem to spend most of my time wearing only one anyway! But not sure what de riguer is for cold climates, having a couple sets of spare dry baselayers are probably a safety aspect more than anything.

 

[iano]

Only one thing for it then. Take it back and get something bigger.

Yeh, my thoughts at the moment. I sounded it out when I got it as I wasn't sure if it was big enough, fair do's, they (Cotswolds) were very good with it and said it would be fine. That's the biggest they have in the shop but online I found a larger Lowe Alpine one, very similar just a bit bigger. Maybe I'll see if they can get one in for me as 'swapsies'...

 

[JonathanD]

I can't imagine you spare clothing will make a drastic difference. Besides there will always be a time when you need some extra kit you have not catered space for, or need to carry something extra you pick up along the way, Best to have too much space than not quite enough.

 

[soulstar1963]

Leave out the boxers

 

[iano]

Leave out the boxers

Maybe I should start wearing a man-thong, less material, less pack size

 

[JonathanD]

You've not even catered for bevvies.

 

[SimonM]

It sounds like you have already made up your mind TBH...the bag is too small for your needs. If you aren't happy now, it will just fester and you'll end up keeping the bag but buying another bigger one soon.

Change it now while you have a chance of a refund is my advice.

Simon

 

[sapper1]

If you take it back ,consider the shape of the bag you get.Climbing packs tend to be tall and narrow . A decent size and shape bag for general use should have a rectangular shape,and be wide and tall.

 

[iano]

Just looked on LA's website and rang Cotswolds. Theres an 80-100L one they do, 'Fitzroy', but it was a one-off and unavailable now. There are several 75-95L ones though, including one in the same model as the one I got (Appalachian), just a little larger.

It's an extra 10L, and of the 'stuff I have in my bergen but don't have room for in this one', I've realised that all except the hydration (an extra 2L) fit inside, you've guessed it, 1x PLCE sidepocket (pretty much 10L). Case closed.

I think going for the 10L bigger version is a better option than faffing around with trying to add extra bits and pieces to a good but slightly small pack and getting it wrong.

And you're right, lack of space for brewski's ain't too good...

 

[J4C3]

Its cos its new and your not used to the best layout for that shape and style,perhaps your used to being to just put your kit in and it will fit due to the spare room in your previous pack.

I have just gone to a 100ltr plce bag and have found it harder than my 25ltr rush 24 to fill,its just because i was so used too the way it packed up.

Keep messing with it and itll come good,also consider dry bags,they add a touch of size and weight BUT they pull the contents in nice and tight but also they are slippy(i use the alpkit lighter ones,very slippy indeed),this allows them to slide about and makes putting in and getting out a lot easier.


I went out Friday and then repacked the bergen on the Saturday using the dry bags and found i have loads more room after,as a bonus its all colour coded so that i know whats what at a glance or in poor light.


Id say keep trying different ways of packing it,the rush 24 i used you layed out on the floor then peeled it open the bergen you pack and push contents down,which means more faffing IMO.


I may got back to the rush i have 2 of everything so have packed a light summer and a heavier cold weather set up so i can just grab and go

 

[Large Sack]

100l + is what you need especially when it comes to clunky 4 season bags..they just take up so much room.

 

[Shewie]

Is this for a couple of nights ? If so I'd ditch a few things

Bottom section:
Sleeping bag
Bivvi bag

Main section:
Sleep mat rolled into a tube and drop in the pack, everything else goes inside it.
3 day's rations
1x T shirt, 1x boxers, 2pr smartwool socks, 2pr thin socks
Waterproofs
Longjohns
Wool jumper
Water filter
Cordage
Goretex boot liners
Survival kit (what is this, do you ever use it ?)
Canvas emo plimsolls

Side pocket:
Stove & fuel
Hat, gloves
58 bottle and mug

Lid:
First Aid Kit
Tarp

Under lid pocket:
Washing tackle

Does that sound doable ?

The biggest problem is probably the US doss bag, I had the similar issues when I packed my 4 season Snugpak and underblanket.

You might be over doing it with the spare clothes but that's completely a personal choice. If you honestly get through that many then you need them.

A good way to reduce your load is make a list of what you've packed for trips, then just think back or do it when you get home and mark off stuff you don't use. Eventually you'll realise there are bits of kit you never use and are just out for the trip.

 

[Ratbag]

I agree with Shewie's comments. And pay attention to your food as well, that can take up a lot of room if you're taking "fresh" food. For mainly dehydrated food like noodles or couscous and a few energy bars or flapjacks, you can keep the weight and bulk right down.

I just did a 2-day mountain marathon (in a team of two, admittedly) - all my gear fitted in a 35-litre rucsac and was a run-able weight, even with 3 litres of water. Obviously I made some trade-offs between weight and comfort but I think the idea of doing less with more translates into bushcraft too.

If I was going to edit your kit list to try to save weight I'd suggest:

• Edit your food as discussed above
• Ditch the second spare pairs of socks - wear one set, whilst you wash and dry the other set
• Ditch the water filter and use a chemical tablet purifier like Puritabs
• Ditch the survival kit full stop - you're taking 3 days food!
• Ditch the plimsols - just loosen your boot laces when you're around camp and kick them off when you can.
• Edit your wash kit down to a toothbrush, small tube of toothpaste and a sliver of soap
• Edit your first aid kit down too, keep it relevant. I just take a few plasters, a bandage and safety pins
• Swap your 4-season bag for a summer one and wear your long johns and jumper to bed
• Seriously think about ditching the bivi bag if you're taking a tarp anyway

.

Just a few ideas. Try a limited-kit night out - you might be surprised how uncomfortable you aren't Try to eliminate things that you don't use, and think about whether things can be used for more than one purpose. Ultimately you need to decide whether toting extra weight is a good price to pay for the extra comfort you enjoy in camp.

HTH

Rat