Cop for this Darwin.

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HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
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tenderfoot

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May 17, 2008
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no, not really cos they can be just regarded as different ways of modelling an essentially mathematically unprovable set of ideas.And.... you can always remodel your model..
its all down to how you apply maximum parsimony.i supppose you could choose to dissalow anything with inconvenient transomes from your clades?
Or maybe god/ the visitors just spilt some bits?
 

Tadpole

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Nov 12, 2005
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Basically saying that DNA jumps around every now and again, so amphibious DNA can jump into mammals and has etc.
I think I'm reading a different article than the two versions of one that you've linked, from what I understand from that article: possibly some 30+ million years ago there is a possibility that bats may have possibly passed on a virus to several species that damaged, or in someway changed the host DNA or even injected new strands of DNA in to six or seven species. Sideways evolution is not unknown, just not thought to be as common. Barbara McClintock was given a Noble Prize in 1983 for her work in the discovery of “jumping genes”
I’m not sure why that would be one in the eye for Darwin? He was not a geneticist.
 

Wayland

Hárbarðr
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HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
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I think I'm reading a different article than the two versions of one that you've linked, from what I understanf from that article: possibly some 30+ million years ago there is a possibility that bats may have possible passed on a virus to several species that damaged, or in someway changed the host DNA or even injected new strands of DNA in to six or seven species. Sideways evolution is not unknown, just not thought to be as common. Barbara McClintock was given a Noble Prize in 1983 for her work in the discovery of “jumping genes”
I’m not sure why that would be one in the eye for Darwin? He was not a geneticist.

Not just bats, but lizards, primates amphibians etc. I just found it interesting. No Darwin wasn't a geneticist but all this says that his theory of evoloution was at least in part incorrect and that dna from seperate groups of animals can intermingle with each other.

The way i see it is that, if true, mythological creatures become less of myth and more of a possibility and things like that. Which they do indeed IF this is true..


Hoodoo. i aint got a clue what you just said. :D
 

Tadpole

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Not just bats, but lizards, primates amphibians etc. I just found it interesting. No Darwin wasn't a geneticist but all this says that his theory of evoloution was at least in part incorrect and that dna from seperate groups of animals can intermingle with each other.

The way i see it is that, if true, mythological creatures become less of myth and more of a possibility and things like that. Which they do indeed IF this is true..

Hoodoo. i aint got a clue what you just said. :D

Bats were the ‘vehicle’ that passed on the virus DNA altering agent/infection, bloodsucker that they are, to the others, ;) it's not like a frog and an ape were standing next to each other at the bar and swapped a few genes, resulting in a fapge, or a frope.

Darwin theory of evoloution is at least in part 'incomplete', but that has been known since it was first put forward:cool:
 

HillBill

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Actually it wasn't bats if you read it. It was an airborn virus that traveled to different continents. to quote some paragraphs.

The culprit is a kind of "parasitic" DNA found in all our cells, known as a transposon. Study leader Cédric Feschotte says that what he calls space invader tranposons jumped sideways millions of years ago into several species by piggybacking onto a virus.

and

The team thinks that the hAT transposon invasion occurred about 30 million years ago and spread across at least two continents. "It's like a pandemic, and one that can infect species that weren't genetically or geographically close. It's puzzling, scary almost," Feschotte says.

and

It may not be a coincidence that the time of the invasion coincides with a period in evolutionary history that saw mass mammal extinctions. This is usually attributed to climate change, Feschotte says, but it is not crazy to suppose that this type of invasion could contribute to species extinction.

Feschotte's work on the hAT transposon is the first time that a "jumping gene" has been shown to have entered mammalian genomes, and the first time it has been shown to do so in at around the same time, in a range of unrelated species, in different parts of the world.

Feschotte admits that we cannot rule out another transposon offensive occurring in mammals, and thinks that bats are the species most likely to be the source. For some reason, he says, they seem to be most susceptible to picking up transposons - possibly because of the viruses they carry.


So i think you may have misunderstood a little, the reference to bats is that they are more likely than any other to change mammilian dna in the future. Not all the other ones the article refers to.
 

gregorach

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Sep 15, 2005
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Not just bats, but lizards, primates amphibians etc. I just found it interesting. No Darwin wasn't a geneticist but all this says that his theory of evoloution was at least in part incorrect and that dna from seperate groups of animals can intermingle with each other.

Of course Darwin's theory of evolution was partly incorrect - no-one gets everything right first time, and we've been revising his ideas continuously for 150 years.

The way i see it is that, if true, mythological creatures become less of myth and more of a possibility and things like that. Which they do indeed IF this is true..

Eh? Genetics in the real world doesn't work like it does in Star Trek. Horizontal gene transfer isn't going to give you a Hippogryph.

Horizontal gene transfer isn't a radical new idea, either. Looks like somebody's PR department has been writing over-excited press releases...
 

HillBill

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Maybe. I'm not in a position to say. I found it interesting and thought provoking. If dna from different groups of animals can mix then it will alter both the physical form and behavior of those animals. It will create new species.

Just as an example, if say dna from a lizard or reptile jumped into a primate, that would be the same as an ape mating with a lizard and the genomes of both being permanantly combined. Maybe that is how humans came about ( not saying it is just hypothetically speaking) But either way not one part of darwins theory of evoloution explores or even considers this. So its not a matter of him being a little wrong to start with, more he was never right at all. Where darwins theory says an animal adapts over time to become what it is now with the abilities to survive in its present habitat, this says that animals (some at least) changed not over time but very quickly and by a virus of some description at a time when the world was changing rapidly. Almost like it happened because of how the world was going to be and not how it was. So did all the mammal species that became extinct at that time really die out? Or change into something which we do not relate them to in order to cope with a different earth?

If so, then that begs another question.

The Mayan believe there will be earth changes in 2012 that we are to change with it. If its true that an airborn virus or parasite caused a dna shift because of different dna structures in the virus. Then could that really happen now? swine flu?, bird flu?plenty of different dna in those two that does get into humans. Basing these thoughts on the articles, history and present happenings. It would appear that it is not out of the question of possibility. Indeed it borders on probability that it will happen at some point.

In the article posted(not rocket science) this caught my eye

But Pace has some ideas on those fronts; he suggests that the Space Invaders may have infiltrated the genomes of vertebrates by stowing away aboard certain viruses. There is precedent for that - last year, scientists discovered a piece of DNA that hitched a ride from the genome of a carpet viper into that of a gerbil, by hitching a ride onboard a poxvirus that infected both species. And four of the species that harbour SPINs - bats, opossums, mice and rats - are rich reservoirs of poxviruses that could act as vehicles for mobile DNA

So just last year they found that a gerbils dna was part gerbil part viper. This is taken from the article about the gebil and viper .
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19526125.000-snake-dna-found-inside-a-gerbil.html

The DNA is unlikely to incorporate into the gerbil genome, as gerbils do not carry the required genetic pasting mechanism, Piskurek says. The mechanism is found in some hoofed mammals, and the SINE could pass into the genomes of these animals if the taterapox virus jumps species again. "This is new," Piskurek says. "It can definitely be a method of retroposon transfer between phylogenetically unrelated species."

So according to this then some hoofed animals can indeed fully take up the DNA of the other animal. Most mythological creatures were based on a hoofed animal. According to the article it is indeed possible. Scientists are actually creating animal/human hybrids as we speak, incuding mythological creatures.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0125_050125_chimeras.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/apr/02/medicalresearch.ethicsofscience
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1156069,00.html
 

durulz

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Don't put too much faith in the 'wisdom' of the Mayans. We have scientific instruments capable of looking at both outside and inside our planet and we understand this world better than we ever have before.
If the Mayans were so good at seeing the end of the world then why couldn't they predict the end of their own civilisation? All this 'respect' and 'appreciation' of primitive knowledge and skills often smacks of patronisation.
 

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