Bushcraft and homesteading skills in WW3

[forrestdweller]

He said sticks and stones, but i agree with the sentiment.

it was a long time ago i heard this statement, so thanks for correcting me

generally spoken wars will continue for as long as some scumbags make money from it.... (and 'strangely' the countries/ governments who are complaining the loudest about others are those who aren't any better than the ones they criticise...)

you can say about the country what you want, but Dec 1st 1948 the costa rican government decided to disband the military and use the budget for education and healthcare instead -- seems to work so far...

 

[Springchicken]

I have enjoyed the progress of this thread but, thinking about the original premise, the only situation where my bushcraft skills would be of use is if I were to try and escape the conflict and head into the wilds. That situation would be more like what the Bielski brothers did in the Second World War and would allow any bushcrafter the opportunity to make the best of a challenging situation.

In the cited situations - a train, Bondi, Ukraine or even Gaza - bushcraft skills per se would not be of much, if any use. However, the mindset, that of making best use of what's available to you, could prove to be of some service.

All we can really hope for is that sense and tolerance prevail among the world's leaders, to avoid another devastating, global conflict and allow all of us to hone and enjoy our skills in peace.

 

[demented dale]

I have enjoyed the progress of this thread but, thinking about the original premise, the only situation where my bushcraft skills would be of use is if I were to try and escape the conflict and head into the wilds. That situation would be more like what the Bielski brothers did in the Second World War and would allow any bushcraft the opportunity to make the best of a challenging situation.

In the cited situations - a train, Bondi, Ukraine or even Gaza - bushcraft skills per se would not be of much, if any use. However, the mindset, that of making best use of what's available to you, could prove to be of some service.

All we can really hope for is that sense and tolerance prevail among the world's leaders, to avoid another devastating, global conflict and allow all of us to hone and enjoy our skills in peace.

Yes I agree.I think resilience and resourcefulness would be good things to have.
Bush craft is just a small part of what a person might need to draw on in world war 3 . bushcraft would certainly be of use in the sticks. x

 

[HillBill]

I'm trying hard to think what bushcraft skills would be useful in certain situations., such as the recent terrible bondi beach attack, train stabbings, Christmas Market attacks. Etc. Its becoming much more prevalent, so apart from not going to events, or never leaving our homes..tho even that is no guarantee of safety, I can't think of anything apart from, (presuming you are not a victim) trauma first aid .
We saw a very brave young man in aus this weekend save many lives with nothing.g more than his own bare hands and sheer bravery. What a hero!


I feel this sort of thing is the active front line at present.
If you can read between the lines, you'll know what Im, getting at, but can't discuss here due to long standing pre stammer forum rules.

To go back to a more traditional view of war,
What lessons do we learn from how Ukraine is coping and what skills they use? How much of that is bushcraft? How much other sorts of skills.?

THe Ukraine conflict is very similar to the Afghan conflict of the 70s. Its a proxy war, though with different reasons behind it. 70's Afghan was a battle for supremacy between the US and the USSR and, when the USSR lost, basically started the end of the USSR. The Mujahidin were backed by CIA and US interests. And indirect war as it were, fight them without fighting them.

Ukraine is also a Proxy war. But this time over rare earth minerals Trillions of (insert any currency here's worth, Its the future of military dominance and economic wealth). Russia has taken most of where they are. Ukraine has signed an agreement with Western powers to allow them to mine it. Europe wants to fight for it, America wants to negotiate for it, Ukraines already been paid for it, and Russia currently controls it. Its really not hard to wrap ones head around once you know the facts. World dominance for the next couple of centuries at least.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Regarding Ukraine’s loudly publicised rare earth mineral wealth. There are voices, often fairly experienced voices, that disagree with the narrative that is splashed over the majority of news channels. I know little about mining, but they make sufficiently persuasive arguments that it makes me suspicious.

https://www.mining.com/op-ed-unpacking-ukraines-trillion-dollar-rare-earths-myth/

The best authority in the world on resources and reserves is the US Geological Survey (USGS). Ukraine does not have resources (the scientifically confirmed presence of minerals) or reserves (resources that are economically extractable).

To my knowledge, and the knowledge of everyone in the mining industry I have asked, there are no economically relevant large scale drilled out resources or reserves in Ukraine of rare earths, graphite, or titanium.

What they have are old Soviet survey’s that indicate the presence of trace amounts rare earth minerals, and a general line that says the entire region could contain rare earth minerals.
…

Ukraine's $500 billion rare earths scam: they don't exist, and we should know better

Bullets:

kdwalmsley.substack.com

The situation in Ukraine is alarmingly similar to Afghanistan, where Pentagon assessments of Afghan mineral reserves dramatically overstated their actual size and market value, while giving war planners additional time and resources to prosecute what was ultimately a losing war effort.

 

[HorseGuy]

I have enjoyed the progress of this thread but, thinking about the original premise, the only situation where my bushcraft skills would be of use is if I were to try and escape the conflict and head into the wilds. That situation would be more like what the Bielski brothers did in the Second World War and would allow any bushcrafter the opportunity to make the best of a challenging situation.

In the cited situations - a train, Bondi, Ukraine or even Gaza - bushcraft skills per se would not be of much, if any use. However, the mindset, that of making best use of what's available to you, could prove to be of some service.

All we can really hope for is that sense and tolerance prevail among the world's leaders, to avoid another devastating, global conflict and allow all of us to hone and enjoy our skills in peace.

I'm tempted to agree with you there, to a degree at least, hence I have decided to add the word 'homesteading' to the title of this thread to widen the scope of discussion a little. In hindsight while I think that bushcraft skills would be fairly limited in most (but not all) war scenarios I do think that provided you're not living right near to a front line having some homesteading skills could be of enormous benefit in a world war scenario.

 

[HorseGuy]

THe Ukraine conflict is very similar to the Afghan conflict of the 70s. Its a proxy war, though with different reasons behind it. 70's Afghan was a battle for supremacy between the US and the USSR and, when the USSR lost, basically started the end of the USSR. The Mujahidin were backed by CIA and US interests. And indirect war as it were, fight them without fighting them.

Ukraine is also a Proxy war. But this time over rare earth minerals Trillions of (insert any currency here's worth, Its the future of military dominance and economic wealth). Russia has taken most of where they are. Ukraine has signed an agreement with Western powers to allow them to mine it. Europe wants to fight for it, America wants to negotiate for it, Ukraines already been paid for it, and Russia currently controls it. Its really not hard to wrap ones head around once you know the facts. World dominance for the next couple of centuries at least.

I think you could be right there.

I do also wonder if the reason there is so much tension between the Venezuela, Iran and the US is because Venezuela and Iran have been cozying upto China and are willing to supply them with all the oil they will need for the rest of this century. Could the reason that the US might want to attack Venezuela and Iran be because they want to cut off their real competitor China from this crucial source of energy which they would require if they were to replace the US as the worlds globally dominant empire? I don't know but it's certainly an interesting theory which fits the data.

 

[Tengu]

Arent there plenty of rare earths in Cornwall?

 

[Falstaff]

I wonder if someone just told Trump there were lots of rare earth minerals in Ukraine, just to keep him interested in semi-supporting it ? (insert suitable smiley here)

 

[Falstaff]

Whilst threats are real, and often always have been, I can’t help but think some people need to spend less time on social media. Algorithms are deliberately trying to scare you.

The world is not as bad as this thread is beginning to suggest. Take a break from doom scrolling. You are being manipulated.

I tend to agree with you, but the head of MI5 has just made her first speech, contradicting that. For MI5 to make such a bold statement is unheard of.
Several other MP/military suddenly seem to be "talking up" the issue, clearly a media manipulating campaign for some obscure hidden political reason.

 

[GreyCat]

Arent there plenty of rare earths in Cornwall?

Quite possibly, as "rare earths" are not actually that rare in occurance. Certainly there's lithium deposits in Cornwall which are apparently economic to mine by injection of hot water/brine. [Lithium is not a rare earth but is used in batteries so one of the "stretegic" elements.]

The issue with rare earths isn't so much their mining as the refining. They occur at trace levels even in the best ores, and the refining is energy intensive and leaves a lot of waste. The issue is that over 95% of the refining is done in China- hence their control of the refined elements. I find it strange that the greenies are keen on windmills (which need rare earth magnets to work) but not nuclear.... yet one of the waste products from refining rare earths is radioactive thorium...... there's some interesting books looking at all this, have to see if I can dig them out for the details if anyone's interested.

There's also the mining of cobalt (needed for batteries for EVs). Whilst quite a few countries have ore, most comes from the Democratic Republic of Congo where they have very rich deposits. Much is mined by "artisan" miners i.e. family units where the kids do the grunt work. (Although according to some sources that is becoming more commercialised/mechanised).

There may well be rare earths in Ukraine.... or maybe "just" things like copper, cobalt, lithium etc.

However, it's not just about where the minerals are, but also about whether they can be extracted and refined. In western countries, the legislation effectively won't allow extraction/refining due to environmental and safety requirements, so the production goes to countries with rather fewer quarms about destroying the environment, causing worker ill-health or using child labour.

GC

 

[TeeDee]

I guess clearly we are allowed to cover off Politics now? As we are naming world leaders and countries intentions?

 

[Falstaff]

I guess clearly we are allowed to cover off Politics now? As we are naming world leaders and countries intentions?

Tricky huh? I think Horseguy's original first statement applies, hoperfully we are not expressing firm political views but informing each other factually, and speculating on potential outcomes and their impact.
This then leads to their effect on bushcraft and homesteading skills and needs. e.g. if lithium batteries become very expensive or scarce, and the fragility of our networks. For those forum members in Europe this has even more relevance.

Me, I need to find and buy some C1 keroscene fuel for my Aladdin heater and Tilley Lamp in case it gets in even more short supply and even more expensive. I expect that might happen if Europe goes tits up, even a little bit, like when the Russian gas taps got closed.
And make friends at the street neighbours group Xmas party this Friday.

 

[Chris]

I guess clearly we are allowed to cover off Politics now? As we are naming world leaders and countries intentions?

Seems to have veered quite far indeed from practical bushcraft skills.

 

[TeeDee]

Seems to have veered quite far indeed from practical bushcraft skills.

Just for clarity I have no immediate objection as long as its a clear and free playing field for all.
Before someone takes umbrage to what another says - because it doesn't coincide with their own beliefs

 

[forrestdweller]

Arent there plenty of rare earths in Cornwall?

reminds me of a pic i once saw: a NASA robot lands on some alien planet with two of the aliens watching and one asking the other: "do we have any oil?!"

 

[Keith_Beef]

If I might be so bold as to try to drag the thread back on-topic...

Power cuts, shortages of fuel oil and petrol and disruption of food supply would be very unsettling for most people.

Like many people of my age on this forum I've lived through those kinds of events without war.

Living by candle light, heating the house with a wood fire, cooking a full Christmas dinner on a charcoal BBQ... BTDT

Lighting a coal fire is something that I learnt as a child with my grandmother. Then in cubs and scouts I learnt how to gather tinder, kindling and wood, how to light a fire and cook over it.

I have some basic first aid skills, but I suppose I should lay in some more supplies and build up my stock of medication for my diabetes and OH's blood pressure.

I live in the forest (that's fuel sorted), there's farmland nearby (potatoes, onions, green veg) and I can drive a tractor, so I could go and work for food, at a push. There's a big river (I wouldn't give the fish to growing children, but an adult could eat a kg or two per month).

There are plenty of wood pigeons and turtle doves around and our garden is a decent size for growing our own food. I could get some geese for eggs and meat; previous owners of the house kept ducks during WWII and there's still the "duck sex pond" in the garden, although it's dry right now.

We don't grow much at the moment other than a few squash and tomatoes in the summer, and a bit of sorrel year round for salads; the apple and pear trees have only been in for a couple of years and haven't given us any fruit yet.

And if the brown and sticky really hits the fan there are several hundred horses within a spitting distance. When hay, straw and hard feed become unavailable or prohibitively expensive, they'll become fresh meat on the hoof rather than cherished companions.

 

[GreyCat]

Seems to have veered quite far indeed from practical bushcraft skills.

I suppose it depends on what "Bushcraft" is to you.

For me it's primarily homesteading, so having some idea of what could impact things like heating costs is helpful in life planning. For example, what baseline level of coal/wood to store- buying extra now hits cash flow but is also a hedge for possible price rises in gas (when we have the the coal fired Rayburn lit, the gas central heating is hardly used neither is the electric cooker, and similarly we have the living room log burner lit for a couple of hours in the evening rather than blast the central heating). If we get conflict in key shipping lanes, or an Arctic blast with Dunkelflauten conditions for that matter, I will be glad of having a backup coal/wood reserve. And that's just one example.

But, as ever, YMMV.....

GC

 

[TeeDee]

How would your bushcraft or homesteading skills be of benefit to you if we were in a direct war.

Let me give you an example. One of the things which would be likely to happen would be electricity blackouts. Whether these would be permanent for very long periods or just intermittent for a few hours or days at a time it is something which would be highly likely to happen during in a war. Most normal people would struggle if it came to preparing some wood and starting a fire then using it to boil water for cooking or drinking purposes but with your bushcraft skills it would would be a doddle for you to do.

So how else do you think that your own bushcraft or homesteading skills and tools could be adapted to be of a benefit for you and your family in a war time situation?

Bushcrafting skills? Hmmm - Not much in my opinion as Bushcraft seems to be a very broad range of undefined skills and hobbies related to doing 'things' in the greater outdoors. Drinking beer from a folding chair whilst butchering a piece of hazel into a spoon which whilst whittling become more spork and then more knitting needle as time goes by.

Homesteading skills - probably more so , at least Homesteading seems to indicate one is practising a skill that removes them from the grid system we all enjoy - removal of normal day to day modern conveniences and connection to various utilities.
I guess if one is a homesteader of sorts one may have acquired more equipment and skills to have some durable resiliency. Probably a larger pantry , maybe some chooks and a veg/fruit area if thats what modern Homesteading is.

Not sure what the overlap of Bushcrafters and Homesteader types is ? I know there is some possible skill and tool/use overlap but if one is talking about Nuclear war I don't think anyone is going to strengthen their position be them Uncle Mears wannabes or those set on the River Cottage original romance.

Would most as you say ' Normal people' struggle to light a fire? Part of me wants to be more charitable and be flag waving but equally the other side of me is nodding my head and agreeing.


Whilst typing this I've had three quick power cuts in succession - fortunately I have prepowered lanterns , headlamps , secondary cooking source , additional food tucked away , means to purify food , means to keep warm.
I'm not trying to 'flex' ( as I believe the kiddos say ) but it occurred to me its a good example.

I don't think I'm just a bushcrafter , and I don't think I'm a full Homesteader ( although I'd like to be ) - I guess I'm at a trifecta edging along into the self-resilience side of things because I like to be able to function and provide for others in my charge when things go a little sideways.

But Nuclear war? Nope - I'd prefer to sit that one out if at all possible.

 

[TLM]

Hmm ... I may have to find my Aladdin lamp, I think I saw it some years ago somewhere. Gives reasonable ligh with good efficiency and no noise. Otherwise my cottage is fairly self sufficient even without electricity. I have about 6 hectares growing firewood, do not run out easily.

I guess I have to buy some reserves.

I still do not really see much help from bushcraft hobby or in this case from military experience either.