Cotton kills

[Toddy]

I didn't know that Boatman. There you go, learned something new again
I did know about the brown paper though; we have an ancient 'survival bag' and it's made of paper. It's very like the stuff that the heavy duty recyclable/compostable garden rubbish paper ones are made from.

M

 

[MikeLA]

Just been to the Lake District and wore cotton all the time, always have and norgies. Never had a problem and as long as you have a dry set of anything it's worked fine

 

[Laurentius]

I think it depends whether the cotton is on the inside or the outside, though when you sweat as much as me, modern wicking materials get just as wet. As for waxed cotton, next best thing to PVC for keeping out the driving rain, I have only one synthetic waterproof jacket that has ever really been any good and that is begining to delaminate now, the disadvantage of waxed cotton is that it is not really the sort of thing you can stuff in a pocket or a small back pack in case it rains.

Staying alive depends on moisture management, when you are getting hot and sweaty, better to take a layer off, keep it dry and put it on again when you stop. That being said you can't go wrong with a buffalo special 6 when it is cold enough to justify it.

As for leg wear, I would sooner be wearing shorts than a pair of jeans in a heavy downpour, nothing I hate more than having the equivalent of a wet rag clamming to my legs.

 

[Old Bones]

Just been to the Lake District and wore cotton all the time, always have and norgies. Never had a problem and as long as you have a dry set of anything it's worked fine

But the problem is when you dont. Norgie are basically a wearable towel - warm enough when dry, but they do soak up sweat. And if it turns cold, then moisture is right next to your skin. And if it gets soaked, forget it. Cotton t-shirts are fine until the get damp, and then a cool wind hits - then your wearing a wet rag which turns cold very quickly.

The good thing about wicking baselayers is that they do dry relatively quickly, and thus much more comfortable (and safer) to wear. And while old school materials like waxed cotton or oilskin might keep you dry in driving rain, you sweat like hell. I remember a exercise when I was in the ATC where I had the stupid plan of using plastic waterproofs (like the one for cycling) which were rubber lined. After about 2 miles (even on a cool autunm evening) I was soaked from sweat - I possibly actually lost weight inside an hour - they were so like a sweat suit. They got chucked very quickly.

Wicking, breathable stuff in layers works. I love my Jermyn St shirts, but I'm not going hiking in one.

 

[MikeLA]

But the problem is when you dont. Norgie are basically a wearable towel - warm enough when dry, but they do soak up sweat. And if it turns cold, then moisture is right next to your skin. And if it gets soaked, forget it. Cotton t-shirts are fine until the get damp, and then a cool wind hits - then your wearing a wet rag which turns cold very quickly.

The good thing about wicking baselayers is that they do dry relatively quickly, and thus much more comfortable (and safer) to wear. And while old school materials like waxed cotton or oilskin might keep you dry in driving rain, you sweat like hell. I remember a exercise when I was in the ATC where I had the stupid plan of using plastic waterproofs (like the one for cycling) which were rubber lined. After about 2 miles (even on a cool autunm evening) I was soaked from sweat - I possibly actually lost weight inside an hour - they were so like a sweat suit. They got chucked very quickly.

Wicking, breathable stuff in layers works. I love my Jermyn St shirts, but I'm not going hiking in one.

with a bergan or daysac on Anything I wear next to the skin gets soaked tried them all

 

[Laurentius]

with a bergan or daysac on Anything I wear next to the skin gets soaked tried them all

I have that problem myself, one solution is the old fashioned rucksack frame though the downside of that is that it shifts the weight further outwards from your body and centre of gravity.

 

[Uilleachan]

Cotton is great at keeping a body cool, on the hill in summer when things get hot soaking a tee shirt in a stream ringing it out a bit and then wearing it is brilliant for cooling off after exertion.

Works the same way in the winter, if you get a cotton tee shirt wet. Not good.

Cotton does kill, when worn wet in an ambient temperature of +1ºC to 10ºC. Most people who die of exposure in Scotland die as a result of the effects of the wind.

Sweating from exertion is enough to cause problems when wearing cotton next to the skin in cool windy conditions, no adequate wind proof and a lack of shelter can soon lead to hypothermia and then death.

Without a windproof wearing synthetics or wool next to the skin won't save you either, if conditions are poor.

Stick on a windproof, be it a bin liner goretex ventile whatever, over wet synthetics or wool and your chances of pulling through are greatly improved, yet only marginally so when worn over wet cotton.

 

[MikeLA]

And that's the key for me at least still wear cotton in those temperatures BUT put a fleese or wind proof or any dry top on when you need to. Either letting the cotton dry or putting back on when moving, use your common sense at the end of the day and carry a dry spare top

 

[MikeLA]

I have that problem myself, one solution is the old fashioned rucksack frame though the downside of that is that it shifts the weight further outwards from your body and centre of gravity.

might go back to using a frame still got an Alice pack could sell in the garage. As long as I am not tempted to over fill on a day walk probably will solve some of this

 

[santaman2000]

.....Cotton does kill, when worn wet in an ambient temperature of +1ºC to 10ºC. Most people who die of exposure in Scotland die as a result of the effects of the wind....

I found a conversion chart for wind chill factor. You'll need to do your own conversions to celsius though:

 

[Uilleachan]

I found a conversion chart for wind chill factor. You'll need to do your own conversions to celsius though:

Good stuff.

As a rough guide to conversion from Celsius to Fahrenheit; double the ºC figure and add 30. So 16ºC becomes 62ºf which is only a little out, 1.2ºf. Works in reverse, deduct 30 and half the remainder. 36ºf becomes 3ºC, again thats just a little out and should be 2.22ºC. Not exact but more than close enough to be getting on with.

 

[Toddy]

Good stuff.

As a rough guide to conversion from Celsius to Fahrenheit; double the ºC figure and add 30. So 16ºC becomes 62ºf which is only a little out, 1.2ºf. Works in reverse, deduct 30 and half the remainder. 36ºf becomes 3ºC, again thats just a little out and should be 2.22ºC. Not exact but more than close enough to be getting on with.

Can we no' just find a Celsius one ? For the life of me I have never understood farenheit.
Celsius is easy, 0 is freezing and 100 is boiling. We're 37 and 20 is very comfortable indeed

M

 

[santaman2000]

Can we no' just find a Celsius one ? For the life of me I have never understood farenheit.
Celsius is easy, 0 is freezing and 100 is boiling. We're 37 and 20 is very comfortable indeed

M

I did look for a celsius one. No joy though. You might have better luck than I did.

 

[Toddy]

I wasn't getting at you Santaman2000, just it seemed a simpler resort than Uilleachan's arithmatic

M

 

[Mesquite]

Can we no' just find a Celsius one ?

Here you go Mary

I did look for a celsius one. No joy though. You might have better luck than I did.

10 seconds of googling celsius wind chill chart turned up a multitude of them...

 

[Uilleachan]

Nothing wrong with sums

It's a balmy 15ºC here today, 2x + 30 = 60ºf, minus a wee bit, so 59ºf

Which is hot enough with a sweater on, or in my case my cotton tee shirt and the stove cranked with half a bucket.

However here's a couple of Centigrade windchill charts:

http://www.sat.dundee.ac.uk/~arb/durc/windchill.html

and there's a graphical version half way down this page:

http://www.mountainsafety.co.uk/Weather-Wind-Chill.aspx

 

[Laurentius]

Cotton is great at keeping a body cool, on the hill in summer when things get hot soaking a tee shirt in a stream ringing it out a bit and then wearing it is brilliant for cooling off after exertion.

Works the same way in the winter, if you get a cotton tee shirt wet. Not good.

Cotton does kill, when worn wet in an ambient temperature of +1ºC to 10ºC. Most people who die of exposure in Scotland die as a result of the effects of the wind.

Sweating from exertion is enough to cause problems when wearing cotton next to the skin in cool windy conditions, no adequate wind proof and a lack of shelter can soon lead to hypothermia and then death.

Without a windproof wearing synthetics or wool next to the skin won't save you either, if conditions are poor.

Stick on a windproof, be it a bin liner goretex ventile whatever, over wet synthetics or wool and your chances of pulling through are greatly improved, yet only marginally so when worn over wet cotton.

I don't think it is being wet on the inside itself that is so much of the problem as the fact that the wetness is conducting heat away from your body more rapidly than a dry layer, however if you have a layer of insulation between you and the outside then that isn't going to be so much of a problem, isn't that how wetsuits work? There seems to be something magical about some materials though, you can wear wool next to the skin in the wet and still feel dry. I tried this experiment during a downpour with a woolen cape not a tight weave even, just honest to goodness Welsh wool.

 

[KenThis]

just honest to goodness Welsh wool.

Obviously Welsh Wool is just superior!

 

[Toddy]

Nothing wrong with sums

I don't mind the sums, just I cannae ay mind the working for the farenheit one

15C is easy

M

 

[Laurentius]

Obviously Welsh Wool is just superior!

Quite possibly, not all wool is alike, it keeps the Welsh sheep warm and dry anyway.