Cyclists, bikers and cars!

[Paul_B]

Just been reading about cyclist deaths in London and comments by drivers. Comments like, they shouldnt be on the road, or they ride dangerously and its their own fault. Just realise that some of my comments about bikers ring similar to the less extreme comments about cyclists. Sorry!

I live near Devils Bridge, Kirby Lonsdale. A notorious bikers spot where a lot of bikers meet especially leading to the TT week. There are a lot of racer wannabes around the roads around there so ive a few bad experiences colouring my view.

The point of this ramble is how do we get road users to see things from the viewpoint of other users? I am trying to understand bikers, think bike! Which always wound me up as i thought bikers should think car! Car drivers need to accept cyclists and vice versa, not just if youre in both camps. We need to think of the true road heirarchy being flipped on its head. Truck look out for cars, cars for bikers and so on down to pedestrians. If youll do more damage to them than you to them then you need to take more care.

Here endeth my preaching. Whats your views on sharing roada and keeping them safe?

 

[david1]

sorry but some cyclists around here wont live long the way they ride. For some reason they think they can ride 3 a breast on a very fast country lane, strange thing is the blind corners offer them no protection from the fast cars :-(

 

[decorum]

Whats your views on sharing roada and keeping them safe?

We all pay for road use (public roads are paid for by central taxation and the ring fencing of 'car tax' for roads was ended by Churchill more than 70 years ago ) ~ so you're missing out horse riders, working animals, pedestrians etc


It's not the number of wheels or limbs that's the issue, more the skill level and attitude of the 'controller' .

 

[Pterodaktyl]

sorry but some cyclists around here wont live long the way they ride. For some reason they think they can ride 3 a breast on a very fast country lane, strange thing is the blind corners offer them no protection from the fast cars :-(

Of course the blind corners could equally conceal a horse rider, a family out for a walk or a farmer moving livestock. Not in any way condoning the actions of the cyclists who should be in single file, but on a country lane a driver should be travelling at a speed which allows them to stop within the distance they can see ahead of them.

 

[david1]

Of course the blind corners could equally conceal a horse rider, a family out for a walk or a farmer moving livestock. Not in any way condoning the actions of the cyclists who should be in single file, but on a country lane a driver should be travelling at a speed which allows them to stop within the distance they can see ahead of them.

hey tell that to the fast cars... the guys on the push bikes seem to think the same as you LOL

 

[Pterodaktyl]

We all pay for road use (public roads are paid for by central taxation and the ring fencing of 'car tax' for roads was ended by Churchill more than 70 years ago ) ~ so you're missing out horse riders, working animals, pedestrians etc


It's not the number of wheels or limbs that's the issue, more the skill level and attitude of the 'controller' .

It also has a lot to do with the amount of protection your chosen mode of transport offers you - if two cars bump wing mirrors the worst outcome is likely to be a few £10s of pounds worth of damage. If one of the parties involved is a cyclist a fatality is entirely possible. My personal view is that cyclists have every right to be on the road, and those that are should be treated with respect and given the room they need to ride safely. I think the wisdom of launching schemes to encourage more cyclists onto roads is questionable given how vulnerable they are.

 

[decorum]

hey tell that to the fast cars... the guys on the push bikes seem to think the same as you LOL

https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-riders-103-to-158/control-of-the-vehicle-117-to-126

And, from the above:

126

Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear.

I've been a driver and also a cyclist and know the complete pita of losing the flow of the drive waiting to safely pass a cyclist (as both driver and cyclist :yikes: :

[h=2]66[/h]You should

• never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends

 

[decorum]

I think the wisdom of launching schemes to encourage more cyclists onto roads is questionable given how vulnerable they are.

Do you not think that an increase in drivers who cycle regularly would increase the understanding of the needs of both sides?

 

[British Red]

Whats your views on sharing roada and keeping them safe?

My view is there are too many road users of all types packed onto the roads - particularly in cities - so the most vulnerable tend to get squished. More people = more congestion = more frustration = more road death. As with so many of our problems, the problem is a symptom of over population

 

[Shewie]

The good old A65 on a Sunday morning It's not so bad when they're overtaking you, I pull over and give them room if I see them coming up behind, it's those guys cutting the corners coming head on that scare me

 

[Pterodaktyl]

Do you not think that an increase in drivers who cycle regularly would increase the understanding of the needs of both sides?

I'm sure it would help, yes. But humans are imperfect, and no matter how good an understanding all the parties have of each others needs there will still be moments of inattention or carelessness resulting in accidents where the cyclist will inevitably come off worst. After all, drivers presumably understand the needs of other drivers and yet road collisions are still common. I certainly think cycling on the road can be made safer, I just don't see any way if can be made safe when compared to walking, public transport or driving (or cycling on a dedicated cycle path of course!).

 

[Robbi]

A65 ? thats a BSA street scrambler isn't it ?

 

[Goatboy]

I'm sure it would help, yes. But humans are imperfect, and no matter how good an understanding all the parties have of each others needs there will still be moments of inattention or carelessness resulting in accidents where the cyclist will inevitably come off worst. After all, drivers presumably understand the needs of other drivers and yet road collisions are still common. I certainly think cycling on the road can be made safer, I just don't see any way if can be made safe when compared to walking, public transport or driving (or cycling on a dedicated cycle path of course!).

Other countries manage to have lower accident rates, mainly through better education, stricter tests for drivers and vehicle condition.

 

[British Red]

Other countries manage to have lower accident rates, mainly through better education, stricter tests for drivers and vehicle condition.

You might find this interesting - road deaths per capita

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

 

[Goatboy]

You might find this interesting - road deaths per capita

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

Wow that's interesting Red, I'm pleasantly surprised. Shows I shouldn't base conceptions on old data, that's a marked improvement as we used to be a lot higher up the scale, especially in the Northern European countries. Cheers.

 

[BearInTheWoods]

There are maniacs using every mode of transport. Driving home from the hospital today, after dark, in swift succession I saw a car make a very tight overtake of a cyclist, forcing her into the gutter where she had hurriedly to dismount, then a youth on a bicycle (unlit, dark clothes), tried to nip past me on the inside as I turned left after giving very clear indication.

I would suggest more rigorous enforcement of the sort of 'minor' driving/riding offences which very quickly become lethal when someone's luck is running low. Perhaps also require drivers to be re-tested every ten years or so.

 

[neoaliphant]

There are maniacs using every mode of transport. Driving home from the hospital today, after dark, in swift succession I saw a car make a very tight overtake of a cyclist, forcing her into the gutter where she had hurriedly to dismount, then a youth on a bicycle (unlit, dark clothes), tried to nip past me on the inside as I turned left after giving very clear indication.

I would suggest more rigorous enforcement of the sort of 'minor' driving/riding offences which very quickly become lethal when someone's luck is running low. Perhaps also require drivers to be re-tested every ten years or so.

<rant warning>
Lanes are one of my gripes, I go usually at max of 30, as has been said, so I can stop in time to the distance I can see.
I often have to swerve in to the hedge and come to a standstill as another driver zooms past at 60 with no hint of slowing, for them the lane is a 60 zone after all.

My father fell off his bike on his way to visit me sunday, if a mad driver had been zooming along the lane then.......

Dont get me started on cars in bike lanes! got knocked off more than once and even shouted at for having the audacity to be in bike lane when cars wanted to drive half in bike lane/half on pavement to jump traffic queue.

And then theres the texting while driving lot, bluetooth/speaker phones give as much of a distraction, my phone sends a txt reply and goes to quiet mode every time im driving automatically.

And then theres asleep at the wheel white van drivers... my mother was killed by one some years ago

</rant warning>

 

[crosslandkelly]

I would suggest more rigorous enforcement of the sort of 'minor' driving/riding offences which very quickly become lethal when someone's luck is running low. Perhaps also require drivers to be re-tested every ten years or so.

The problem is, policing the roads is now done by camera, as a revenue generator. The cameras are no substitute for being pulled over for bad driving.

 

[Mesquite]

The other thing to bear in mind is how the recent spate of cyclists deaths in London occurred.

I'f I remember rightly the greater majority of them were caused by lorries turning left at junctions and the cyclist happened to be in the drivers blind spot.

So it's clearly error on both parties, the lorry driver for not making sure his nearside was clear before he started turning and the cyclist for positioning themselves in what is know to be a dangerous place to be around a lorry.

I've driven a fair bit in London and there's no way I would want to ride a bicycle there. I see it as being simply to dangerous.

Someone mentioned attitude of drivers. It's equally bad on both parts I feel. I lost count of the number of times I've nearly been knocked over by a cyclist running a red light at a pedestrian crossing. Even when traffic is stopped and the beep is going they still feel they have the right to continue. As for red lights at junctions, a lot of cyclists treat them not as a stop sign but as a 'proceed with caution' sign

I did laugh once though at a cyclist who pulled this stunt whilst a police motorbike cop was in the queue. I saw them a hundred yards or so down the road and the copper was clearly booking the cyclist for failing to stop

 

[British Red]

I think you raise an excellent point Steve. My friend's father was left permanently handicapped having been run over by a cyclist whilst on a zebra crossing.

Perhaps we should consider having a licence for cyclists on our congested roads to "level the playing field"?

Maybe also we should be quicker to remove those who endanger others from road use altogether - be that cars overtaking too close, motorcycles "white lining" or push bikes undertaking on the left?

If we genuinely want to save lives, then there will have to be a tougher regime for all - if that is what we really want.