Much of my natural fibre clothing is just as easy to was as synthetic ... but stays "sweet" longer than synthetics so needs less frequent washing
Weird isn't it. Some people on here are saying that natural fibres are best but I've maybe had one single weeks work inside a building this year (the rest being outside and most of it on a roof) and wearing natural fibres I've not ended up smelling like a swamp donkeys backside.
For the most part it is significantly cheaper (don't get to waffling on about charity shop buys cos you might have time to amble about those with you're brain in neutral but I don't) than natural fibres and washes better.
Think there's maybe some bamboo fibre socks that were about the only natural fibres I've worn for work and that's about it. To be fair those socks are very nice.
I'm putting a fair bit of the way we on this forum do things as Bushcraft fashion then.
???
Do you actually mean that or are you saying you were wearing synthetics?
Synthetics work very well when you are not moving much and only a day away from the next laundry.
Many here work around camp fires and synthetics can present a higher fire risk in those sorts of situations.
Another factor for a few of us is that on a longer expedition, synthetics can rapidly develop a very unsavoury stink whereas wool in particular does not.
In the end it's horses for courses but I have gone mainly for natural fibres for my own kit.
Snip> (Also, do not forget that the original question was posted in the "Sub Zero" forum so we can assume that is the environment that is being considered.)
I think you are spot on with your evaluation.
As far as "warm, waterproof, breathable and spark-proof", that was my point about layering problems. Most of us separate our insulation layers from our shell layers. It doesn't make much sense to have them combined in a wilderness environment. However, I wouldn't put Ventile in the "waterproof" category. It is a soft shell. If you make any soft shell material thick enough, it will be water resistant, but it is not actually a waterproof material like GoreTex. It is breathable when dry, although like most materials I've tried, it is not so once it gets wet. There are no perfect materials. They all have some pretty serious disadvantages that one has to deal with. My priorities are portability and drying time because of what I do. I couldn't care less what people at the airport or some town in Norway think of me. I make my choices accordingly. They would not be the same for everyone.
I started out climbing with an old 2nd hand ventile climbing jacket (late 60's or early 70's vintage I think) I bought from a friend when I was around 16, he'd replaced it with an Rohan silk high altitude wind proof for his first winter alpine season, this was around the time of the goretex event horizon although it was another couple of years before it became commercially available, post the rotten 1st generation stuff.
Prior to the ventile jacket it was a borrowed proofed 8oz nylon cag, I didn't fully appreciate that first ventile jacket until it was gone (lost stolen mislaid???), despite owning a 2nd generation goretex jacket from around the age of 18, I still preferred the ventile for actually climbing in, that was due to a couple of factors, a) it didn't feel anywhere near as slippy on frozen rock, bridging up chimneys etc, and b) I wasn't worried about the potential for damaging (although I wasn't aware of it then, the ventile jacket was considerably more expensive by comparison, only discovered that fact when I tried to replace it after its loss some years later).
People talk about the wet, the rain etc, I say; come to wester ross to get experience of the true deluge. The south of england is experiencing "our" weather at the moment courtesy of a misplaced jet stream, that weather is the norm for us, so I know the wet, like a parent
So the wet is a fact of life for me, whilst ventile isn't a true water proof, it certainly is a true weather proof material, in it's double format. I've never been properly wet in the Hilltrek jacket I've been using for the past 10 years (in double ventile), I've been wet round the cuffs & hem etc, but thats normal for any jacket. I've been caught out in some truly dire weather in it. Dripping wet, looking drowned, yet the inside of the jacket is still dry. I haven't pushed it out in that jacket, as it isn't really a winter hill/climbing garment, but in my first and subsequent ventile and similar (Berhaus JPR cotton Jacket, left on a train by a friend) jackets, I did, and on many occasions, and again whilst I got quite damp at times, I was never soaked through even on multi day ventures.
People moan about the material getting stiff when frozen, but I loved it when that happened, once I got going though the material loosened off where it needed to. I like the feel of frozen ventile, I feel protected, like having an armor shell.
Goretex by comparison, works well in all manner of situations, but I never feel protected in the same way.
My goretex jacket, berghaus, is getting late in years, and when I replace it (when I have a spare £400) I'll replace it with a Firemore double ventile "pioneer" jacket, with internal rather than bellow pockets, partly because I'm going to struggle to find a suitable "long" goretex jacket, and partly because since I've had it I've been harking back after my original ventile jacket, as they're very similar in cut.
Expensive but effective
I've done loads of longer (15+ days) outings in natural fibres and PE/CO clothing. Never bothered by the weather one bit. From spitsbergen and lapland to SE asia and northern africa... Sure I've been cold, wet and miserable, but so have I been in gore-tex, sympatex, fleece and event as well.
Wool does retain its isolating properties when wet not because it absorbs moisture but because of the structure of the fibre. It is not a rumour. I recommend fabric reference by humphries or basically any academic literature on textiles if you don't believe that. There is also thousands of peer review articles confirming this and even more thousands of end users with that experience.
Here is a nice review of a natural plant fibre as an alternative to down: http://www.academia.edu/1112857/Com...ces_of_Kapok_Coats_and_Traditional_Down_Coats (although it would have been more interesting comparing goose and eider down rather than duckling...)
Another issue, I have a few icelandic sweaters (that is sweaters knitted in yarn from iceland and with a round knitted yoke) that are 10+ years old, they have been darned here and there but are still very functional as midlayers and outerlayers if it's not too windy. I have also a few fleeces and fibre pile jackets that are of the same vintage. Even though PE and PA is said to be a lot more abrasion resistant they look like sh1t. Pilling like crazy and worn thin around the usual patches. The sweaters have been worn a lot more but still look okay. Weird, but they have given me a lot more wear for the money.
I like wool too. On the fiberpiles jackets, the HH field jacket simply doesn't wear out, getting hard to find these days, hardly surprising HH don't push it more, who wants to sell a product that's near indestructible in normal use?
To see true differences we have to look at tests under more extreme conditions.
No you don't. Indeed for people who have no intention in using their clothing in those conditions that would be pointless. For some of us, longevity of clothing really matters - we prefer to invest in something that is tough enough to last for years in a hard work environment in a variety of weathers - not the latest go faster "tacticool" clothing for infrequent hobby use.
I see lots of mention of "Natural Fibres" which almost always get clarified to be Cotton and Wool. At risk of a slight thread hijack, what is peoples view of linen as a fabric for outdoor clothing?
J
+1 :thumbup:Im a big fan of linen and hemp. Cooler than cotton in summer, it also dries faster and is slow to pong. A decent base layer too. All in all very versatile stuff.