Much of my natural fibre clothing is just as easy to was as synthetic ... but stays "sweet" longer than synthetics so needs less frequent washing
Traditional fabrics
- Thread starter cockney greg
- Start date
-
Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.
I never shop with my brain in neutral - I dash into charity shops, know what I am looking for and if it ain't there I am out again in seconds .. much like any of my shopping trips to any shop ... and I come away with bargains.
There are some big holes in your argument in this post....
Oops, yeah. Meant synthetics but my grand daughter was coming over and I was in a rush. Edited it now.
Anyway, I've worked outside for most of 2014, in synthetics and don't smell like a wet gundog. That's putting the large cut roof on a lifeboat station (lots of weather there) and shuttering concrete at Barrow in Furness. Pretty much everyone else working in the same places were using synthetic waterproofs of some sort.
I've remained mostly dry* and warm enough. Not saying that means that every single man made fibre is better than every natural one but I will dispute that they are the spawn of Satan. Not exactly sure how the people on here are so different from the other people who work outside and go walking on the hills either but there you go. Opinions differ.
*Waterproof jacket but not wearing waterproof keks sometimes means after prolonged rain that my keks get wet. I could put my waterproof keks on but they aren't the best fit and if I'm bending down a lot they irritate me. Railspec orange Hi Viz Gore tex salopettes next purchase, most likely a verboten colour and fabric for the herbaceous bordercrafter fashion police.
There is a similar argument that goes against the "synthetics are great" argument. People survived for years in cotton shirts, wool jackets etc. working hill farms, fishing boats etc. Be it wool reefer jackets or tweed caps, people worked outdoors, in the worst of British weather, for centuries without synthetic fibres. They seem to have thrived.
I detest synthetics next to the skin (do you really wear polyester undercrackers? Nasty!). Most guys I know who work outdoors wear cotton T shirts and boxers, cotton or wool socks, leather boots. So a fair amount of natural materials. Most wear Polycotton strides - so not one thing or the other. Most also wear all synthetic fleeces and waterproofs as required. So basically only the coats are (all) synthetic.
Red
I detest synthetics next to the skin (do you really wear polyester undercrackers? Nasty!). Most guys I know who work outdoors wear cotton T shirts and boxers, cotton or wool socks, leather boots. So a fair amount of natural materials. Most wear Polycotton strides - so not one thing or the other. Most also wear all synthetic fleeces and waterproofs as required. So basically only the coats are (all) synthetic.
Red
Of course there will be many examples of people wearing their own favourite clothing in their own environments and living to tell the tale.
There is always going to be more than one solution to any problem too. Everyone's personal experiences should lead towards their own particular solutions as you would expect.
My personal experience, for what it is worth, has predisposed me toward natural materials, particularly when choosing clothing for Sub Zero environments (and that means in Fahrenheit as well as Centigrade) but my sleeping system in that same environments utilises mostly synthetics. Choose the fabric that does the job where and when it is required. (The reasons for my personal choices can be found on my web sites for anyone that is actually interested.)
The fact that someone has tried one solution with a degree of success does not then invalidate or reduce to a "fashion choice" the advice given by people with rather different experiences. Personally I carefully examine and usually test the various options before dismissing any. I believe that makes good sense, particularly in environments where a bad choice could potentially put your life at risk.
I am currently planning a trip to Iceland during the Spring which will likely include very changeable temperate weather conditions. It will be no surprise to those that know me that the clothing choices I make will be very different from the choices I made in the Arctic Winter or the choices I will make for Mongolia in the Summer.
I started out climbing with an old 2nd hand ventile climbing jacket (late 60's or early 70's vintage I think) I bought from a friend when I was around 16, he'd replaced it with an Rohan silk high altitude wind proof for his first winter alpine season, this was around the time of the goretex event horizon although it was another couple of years before it became commercially available, post the rotten 1st generation stuff.
Prior to the ventile jacket it was a borrowed proofed 8oz nylon cag, I didn't fully appreciate that first ventile jacket until it was gone (lost stolen mislaid???), despite owning a 2nd generation goretex jacket from around the age of 18, I still preferred the ventile for actually climbing in, that was due to a couple of factors, a) it didn't feel anywhere near as slippy on frozen rock, bridging up chimneys etc, and b) I wasn't worried about the potential for damaging (although I wasn't aware of it then, the ventile jacket was considerably more expensive by comparison, only discovered that fact when I tried to replace it after its loss some years later).
People talk about the wet, the rain etc, I say; come to wester ross to get experience of the true deluge. The south of england is experiencing "our" weather at the moment courtesy of a misplaced jet stream, that weather is the norm for us, so I know the wet, like a parent
So the wet is a fact of life for me, whilst ventile isn't a true water proof, it certainly is a true weather proof material, in it's double format. I've never been properly wet in the Hilltrek jacket I've been using for the past 10 years (in double ventile), I've been wet round the cuffs & hem etc, but thats normal for any jacket. I've been caught out in some truly dire weather in it. Dripping wet, looking drowned, yet the inside of the jacket is still dry. I haven't pushed it out in that jacket, as it isn't really a winter hill/climbing garment, but in my first and subsequent ventile and similar (Berhaus JPR cotton Jacket, left on a train by a friend) jackets, I did, and on many occasions, and again whilst I got quite damp at times, I was never soaked through even on multi day ventures.
People moan about the material getting stiff when frozen, but I loved it when that happened, once I got going though the material loosened off where it needed to. I like the feel of frozen ventile, I feel protected, like having an armor shell.
Goretex by comparison, works well in all manner of situations, but I never feel protected in the same way.
My goretex jacket, berghaus, is getting late in years, and when I replace it (when I have a spare £400) I'll replace it with a Firemore double ventile "pioneer" jacket, with internal rather than bellow pockets, partly because I'm going to struggle to find a suitable "long" goretex jacket, and partly because since I've had it I've been harking back after my original ventile jacket, as they're very similar in cut.
Expensive but effective
Last edited:
I've done loads of longer (15+ days) outings in natural fibres and PE/CO clothing. Never bothered by the weather one bit. From spitsbergen and lapland to SE asia and northern africa... Sure I've been cold, wet and miserable, but so have I been in gore-tex, sympatex, fleece and event as well.
Wool does retain its isolating properties when wet not because it absorbs moisture but because of the structure of the fibre. It is not a rumour. I recommend fabric reference by humphries or basically any academic literature on textiles if you don't believe that. There is also thousands of peer review articles confirming this and even more thousands of end users with that experience.
Here is a nice review of a natural plant fibre as an alternative to down: http://www.academia.edu/1112857/Com...ces_of_Kapok_Coats_and_Traditional_Down_Coats (although it would have been more interesting comparing goose and eider down rather than duckling...)
Another issue, I have a few icelandic sweaters (that is sweaters knitted in yarn from iceland and with a round knitted yoke) that are 10+ years old, they have been darned here and there but are still very functional as midlayers and outerlayers if it's not too windy. I have also a few fleeces and fibre pile jackets that are of the same vintage. Even though PE and PA is said to be a lot more abrasion resistant they look like sh1t. Pilling like crazy and worn thin around the usual patches. The sweaters have been worn a lot more but still look okay. Weird, but they have given me a lot more wear for the money.
Wool does retain its isolating properties when wet not because it absorbs moisture but because of the structure of the fibre. It is not a rumour. I recommend fabric reference by humphries or basically any academic literature on textiles if you don't believe that. There is also thousands of peer review articles confirming this and even more thousands of end users with that experience.
Here is a nice review of a natural plant fibre as an alternative to down: http://www.academia.edu/1112857/Com...ces_of_Kapok_Coats_and_Traditional_Down_Coats (although it would have been more interesting comparing goose and eider down rather than duckling...)
Another issue, I have a few icelandic sweaters (that is sweaters knitted in yarn from iceland and with a round knitted yoke) that are 10+ years old, they have been darned here and there but are still very functional as midlayers and outerlayers if it's not too windy. I have also a few fleeces and fibre pile jackets that are of the same vintage. Even though PE and PA is said to be a lot more abrasion resistant they look like sh1t. Pilling like crazy and worn thin around the usual patches. The sweaters have been worn a lot more but still look okay. Weird, but they have given me a lot more wear for the money.
I started out climbing with an old 2nd hand ventile climbing jacket (late 60's or early 70's vintage I think) I bought from a friend when I was around 16, he'd replaced it with an Rohan silk high altitude wind proof for his first winter alpine season, this was around the time of the goretex event horizon although it was another couple of years before it became commercially available, post the rotten 1st generation stuff.
Prior to the ventile jacket it was a borrowed proofed 8oz nylon cag, I didn't fully appreciate that first ventile jacket until it was gone (lost stolen mislaid???), despite owning a 2nd generation goretex jacket from around the age of 18, I still preferred the ventile for actually climbing in, that was due to a couple of factors, a) it didn't feel anywhere near as slippy on frozen rock, bridging up chimneys etc, and b) I wasn't worried about the potential for damaging (although I wasn't aware of it then, the ventile jacket was considerably more expensive by comparison, only discovered that fact when I tried to replace it after its loss some years later).
People talk about the wet, the rain etc, I say; come to wester ross to get experience of the true deluge. The south of england is experiencing "our" weather at the moment courtesy of a misplaced jet stream, that weather is the norm for us, so I know the wet, like a parent
So the wet is a fact of life for me, whilst ventile isn't a true water proof, it certainly is a true weather proof material, in it's double format. I've never been properly wet in the Hilltrek jacket I've been using for the past 10 years (in double ventile), I've been wet round the cuffs & hem etc, but thats normal for any jacket. I've been caught out in some truly dire weather in it. Dripping wet, looking drowned, yet the inside of the jacket is still dry. I haven't pushed it out in that jacket, as it isn't really a winter hill/climbing garment, but in my first and subsequent ventile and similar (Berhaus JPR cotton Jacket, left on a train by a friend) jackets, I did, and on many occasions, and again whilst I got quite damp at times, I was never soaked through even on multi day ventures.
People moan about the material getting stiff when frozen, but I loved it when that happened, once I got going though the material loosened off where it needed to. I like the feel of frozen ventile, I feel protected, like having an armor shell.
Goretex by comparison, works well in all manner of situations, but I never feel protected in the same way.
My goretex jacket, berghaus, is getting late in years, and when I replace it (when I have a spare £400) I'll replace it with a Firemore double ventile "pioneer" jacket, with internal rather than bellow pockets, partly because I'm going to struggle to find a suitable "long" goretex jacket, and partly because since I've had it I've been harking back after my original ventile jacket, as they're very similar in cut.
Expensive but effective
Ventile is my "Go to" outer layer too
more comfortable than any synthetic shell I have ever owned (Goretex jackets freeze up too - I have had frost form inside them and that is not nice!)
I like wool too. On the fiberpiles jackets, the HH field jacket simply doesn't wear out, getting hard to find these days, hardly surprising HH don't push it more, who wants to sell a product that's near indestructible in normal use?
Mine HH is very worn around the bottom hem and around the wrists, is also has a few holes here and there on the back. And the inside is full of pilling.
I think there are several reasons why these type of discussions always follow the same lines of people just saying what they like and then defending it to the death without the conversation ever getting anywhere.
1. We have almost no good scientific research on the issue. I am yet to see any presented on this forum or any other. When some study that is in any way related is produced, it is immediately ignored with excuses like it is funded by modern corporations, or with no excuse at all.
2. We make ridiculous comparisons to support our claims. We compare softshells like Ventricle to hardshells like GoreTex, and then ask "Is the crocodile greener or the elephant bigger?". If we wanted a fair comparison, we would compare softshell to softshell and hardshell to hardshell-Ventile to Polartec PowerShell (and others), and GoreTex to whatever the natural hardshell material is (rubber I guess).
3. We compare our experiences which we have had under very mild conditions. When hanging out in the local woods, it makes no difference what you wear. Most of us can spend a few days lounging under a tree in most temperatures wearing just about anything. You can pile on enough of any material tob keep you warm in any weather, if you don't have to transport it, don't care about calories expended, etc. To see true differences we have to look at tests under more extreme conditions. Then differences become real and easy to see.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
1. We have almost no good scientific research on the issue. I am yet to see any presented on this forum or any other. When some study that is in any way related is produced, it is immediately ignored with excuses like it is funded by modern corporations, or with no excuse at all.
2. We make ridiculous comparisons to support our claims. We compare softshells like Ventricle to hardshells like GoreTex, and then ask "Is the crocodile greener or the elephant bigger?". If we wanted a fair comparison, we would compare softshell to softshell and hardshell to hardshell-Ventile to Polartec PowerShell (and others), and GoreTex to whatever the natural hardshell material is (rubber I guess).
3. We compare our experiences which we have had under very mild conditions. When hanging out in the local woods, it makes no difference what you wear. Most of us can spend a few days lounging under a tree in most temperatures wearing just about anything. You can pile on enough of any material tob keep you warm in any weather, if you don't have to transport it, don't care about calories expended, etc. To see true differences we have to look at tests under more extreme conditions. Then differences become real and easy to see.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Tests and comparisons are impossible, in my view, to carry out objectively as the whole question is inherently subjective. I walk, work and camp
all the time with one of my brothers, and have done for many years, in any and all weathers; we also tend the horses together Winter and Summer
and neither of us wears even remotely the same clothing systems for the same conditions, yet we are both always dry, warm and comfortable.
If I dressed in the way he does I'd cook as I run very hot and am a wearer of the natural fabric school. He on the other hand feels the cold and really hates to be even the slightest bit damp, and deals with this by using and wearing mainly synthetics. How would you be able to make meaningful comparisons betwixt two such different metabolisms?
all the time with one of my brothers, and have done for many years, in any and all weathers; we also tend the horses together Winter and Summer
and neither of us wears even remotely the same clothing systems for the same conditions, yet we are both always dry, warm and comfortable.
If I dressed in the way he does I'd cook as I run very hot and am a wearer of the natural fabric school. He on the other hand feels the cold and really hates to be even the slightest bit damp, and deals with this by using and wearing mainly synthetics. How would you be able to make meaningful comparisons betwixt two such different metabolisms?
No you don't. Indeed for people who have no intention in using their clothing in those conditions that would be pointless. For some of us, longevity of clothing really matters - we prefer to invest in something that is tough enough to last for years in a hard work environment in a variety of weathers - not the latest go faster "tacticool" clothing for infrequent hobby use.
No you don't. Indeed for people who have no intention in using their clothing in those conditions that would be pointless. For some of us, longevity of clothing really matters - we prefer to invest in something that is tough enough to last for years in a hard work environment in a variety of weathers - not the latest go faster "tacticool" clothing for infrequent hobby use.
Well, that is in fact a test under extreme conditions for a specific characteristic of the fabric, i.e. durability. I'm sure most fabrics will be durable for moderate use. To see what is truly durable, you have to push those fabrics further to see which lasts longer.
Same thing goes for any aspect of the clothing which you consider important-weterproofness, insulating ability, weight, compressability, etc. Very few fabrics will fail us in any way when hanging out in the woods behind the house. If we are discussing which fabric provides higher clo values, then to really see the differences (in the absence of scientific testing), we can't rely on anecdotal evidence of whether it kept me from being too cold when I was hanging out in the backyard during the weekend. Odds are most fabrics will come up as adequate for that. If you want to know which one is better in that particular respect, you have to test under conditions where the differences will become more apparent.
Of course, if one doesn't care which one is better, and simply wants something which would be comfortable to relax in in the evenings in the woods behind the house, then that is perfectly okay. No need to worry about the performance of any material. Like I've said before, sometimes performance matters, sometimes it does not. Sometimes we prioritize different characteristics, and that is fine as well.
Last edited:
The problem is though that "better" is an entirely subjective judgement. Quality can be defined as "the sum of attributes that make a product perform to its objectives". Unless the objectives are defined, any comparison is entirely pointless. It would appear that you choose attributes of insulation, weight and speed to dry. These make garments suitable for your purpose. Your purpose is defined by your activities, climate, financial limitations and personal preference. Unless everyone else is undertaking the same activities, in the same climate, with the same personal preferences as you, it would be foolish to expect them to make the same choices. This does not validate your choices or invalidate theirs. Given that most people on this forum operate on a different continent, undertaking different activities, it should be expected that their valid choices would be different garments.
Im a big fan of linen and hemp. Cooler than cotton in summer, it also dries faster and is slow to pong. A decent base layer too. All in all very versatile stuff.
You miss something Ross. You like endurance walks in dry cold weather.
We have no real dry cold weather.
It's temperate, it's sodden wet, it's windy, it is only deep snow in our high lands, and very few people live there all year round. Those lands when in the grip of snow are generally only used by climbers and skiers.
There's very little to eat, even less to forage, apart from the fun of the snow and the views, it's not bushcrafting country.
We don't have continental cold, we have damp, wet, cold that mostly doesn't freeze.
Right now the humidity outside is 82%, and the temperature is 6.4 degC.
Any modern breathable barrier struggles in that. Look at almost all the performance ratings and they stop at 70% humidity. It's pouring torrential rain too, and it's really windy.
That's normal weather for us, day in day out.
I work in it, I get filthy working in it, another strike agin the breathable barrier stuff.
Tbh I'm actually better off wearing non breathable and just getting sodden wet with sweat inside. It wipes clean and dries easily. The modern barrier things just don't.
Plastic fleece is miserable when it's hot and humid
it gets sweaty, I break out in rashes where it rubs, I don't care what they call it, it's not warm unless it's the double layer windblock stuff, and that's too heavy to wear when working hard in waterproofs.
Heat loss through the head....did you know that the only reason human brains managed to grow in size in Africa is because the earlier hominids developed heat loss ability that stopped our upright posture causing our brains to boil in their skull ?
It's actually a defining characteristic of early hominids. That same built in heat loss thing makes it damned uncomfortable not to wear a headcovering in the cold. Hair helps, but there's a heck of a proportion of the males of the species who are follically challenged. Even Oetzi wore a fur hat. Our very breathing cools the skull.
http://jap.physiology.org/content/87/5/1609.abstract
"The results support the view that cooling of the upper airway can directly influence human brain temperature."
http://www.fasebj.org/content/7/12/1148
https://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/4306
There is actually a great deal of research on the topic of human thermoregulation and the interaction between the vascular structure of human brains and the cooling effect of respiration.
Basically the head is hardwired to lose heat, so if it's cold and you wish to stay warm, then insulate the head.
Natural fibres v manmade.
Each to their own, and that choice is that of the individual.
Frankly, I like kit that's comfortable, that doesn't stink of staleness, that's hard wearing, long lasting, quiet in use and safe near fires.
I also like kit that I can make, and I'm not a fan of 'athletic cut' one size fits no one very well, clothing.
Bushcraft isn't extreme climbing and hillwalking to most of us.
Ten years ago it was a huge effort to find linen cloth, good wool and ventile. It's pretty easy now. It appears that more and more people are appreciating natural fibres for clothing, and the range available is growing all the time.
I suspect that like the crimplene of the 1970's many of the manmade fibres are purely 'fashion' and will disappear as the fashion changes. There's a tremendous amount of hype and hyperbole in the advertising of ridiculously expensive 'high-tec' costume.
Hey, the height of cool in the computer labs at Uni is almost full mountaineering kit It's fashionable.
For most people, our 'kit' is just hard wearing clothing. My favourite jacket is a wool lined wax cotton, my husband's is his wool hoodie (bushshirt) that I made him. Neither of us wears them to exclusion, and we do have goretex's, etc., but according to your opinion neither of those garments should work effectively. I can categorically state that they are much, much better in use than the man made ones, for the use we make of them.
Each to their own, after all, we all lead very different lives.
M
We have no real dry cold weather.
It's temperate, it's sodden wet, it's windy, it is only deep snow in our high lands, and very few people live there all year round. Those lands when in the grip of snow are generally only used by climbers and skiers.
There's very little to eat, even less to forage, apart from the fun of the snow and the views, it's not bushcrafting country.
We don't have continental cold, we have damp, wet, cold that mostly doesn't freeze.
Right now the humidity outside is 82%, and the temperature is 6.4 degC.
Any modern breathable barrier struggles in that. Look at almost all the performance ratings and they stop at 70% humidity. It's pouring torrential rain too, and it's really windy.
That's normal weather for us, day in day out.
I work in it, I get filthy working in it, another strike agin the breathable barrier stuff.
Tbh I'm actually better off wearing non breathable and just getting sodden wet with sweat inside. It wipes clean and dries easily. The modern barrier things just don't.
Plastic fleece is miserable when it's hot and humid
it gets sweaty, I break out in rashes where it rubs, I don't care what they call it, it's not warm unless it's the double layer windblock stuff, and that's too heavy to wear when working hard in waterproofs.Heat loss through the head....did you know that the only reason human brains managed to grow in size in Africa is because the earlier hominids developed heat loss ability that stopped our upright posture causing our brains to boil in their skull ?
It's actually a defining characteristic of early hominids. That same built in heat loss thing makes it damned uncomfortable not to wear a headcovering in the cold. Hair helps, but there's a heck of a proportion of the males of the species who are follically challenged. Even Oetzi wore a fur hat. Our very breathing cools the skull.
http://jap.physiology.org/content/87/5/1609.abstract
"The results support the view that cooling of the upper airway can directly influence human brain temperature."
http://www.fasebj.org/content/7/12/1148
https://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/4306
There is actually a great deal of research on the topic of human thermoregulation and the interaction between the vascular structure of human brains and the cooling effect of respiration.
Basically the head is hardwired to lose heat, so if it's cold and you wish to stay warm, then insulate the head.
Natural fibres v manmade.
Each to their own, and that choice is that of the individual.
Frankly, I like kit that's comfortable, that doesn't stink of staleness, that's hard wearing, long lasting, quiet in use and safe near fires.
I also like kit that I can make, and I'm not a fan of 'athletic cut' one size fits no one very well, clothing.
Bushcraft isn't extreme climbing and hillwalking to most of us.
Ten years ago it was a huge effort to find linen cloth, good wool and ventile. It's pretty easy now. It appears that more and more people are appreciating natural fibres for clothing, and the range available is growing all the time.
I suspect that like the crimplene of the 1970's many of the manmade fibres are purely 'fashion' and will disappear as the fashion changes. There's a tremendous amount of hype and hyperbole in the advertising of ridiculously expensive 'high-tec' costume.
Hey, the height of cool in the computer labs at Uni is almost full mountaineering kit
It's fashionable.For most people, our 'kit' is just hard wearing clothing. My favourite jacket is a wool lined wax cotton, my husband's is his wool hoodie (bushshirt) that I made him. Neither of us wears them to exclusion, and we do have goretex's, etc., but according to your opinion neither of those garments should work effectively. I can categorically state that they are much, much better in use than the man made ones, for the use we make of them.
Each to their own, after all, we all lead very different lives.
M
Yep, for me it's all about the wet. Or, if I'm headed up a hill into the freezing level, it's all about the wet and the cold.
Synthetic base layers for me, if it's cold, poly cotton if it's in the 14 to 16ºC range and I'm not going to sweat too much. I've been wearing wool shirts atop a synthetic (poly cotton in summer, although there's always a synthetic set of thermal simmit and breeks in the bag) base layer for almost all my outdoor stuff this last while, summer and winter, and I just can't see past it. Atop that it depends what I'm up to, wool sweater or synthetic fiberpile/fleece top and then ventile goretex and what ever my Keela munro is made from(?).
Wool works on several levels for me and in my experience is a more versatile material than most give it credit for, it doesn't shift moisture outward as quickly as synthetic materials, it's heavier and doesn't pack small (especially when damp), but on the other hand there's something more wholesome about wool, it makes me feel like I'm wearing clothes in a way synthetic tops don't.
One other downside of wool (shirts in my case), when combined with synthetics is that one can build quite a head of static electricity if padding round in rubber boots, shocking.
I don't care how bad I may or may not smell, airlines? I've a carbon foot print the size of Godzilla, 28 flights so far this year, off to Latvia and Lithuania this weekend then Dubai and Doha next week. After that Aberdeen, then it'll be the start of the trout season
Smelliest I've been this year on a plane was returning from Douala Cameroon back in January, clean when I left the digs, soaked through twice by my own sweat prior to boarding, and then cooked in my own juices in the seat (fortunately I was up graded, I must have looked needy at checkin) whilst we sat on the stand for two hours due to someone dying (I think so, they looked dead to me as they were eventually carried past) on board prior to take off.
By the time we were in the air the whole lot of us were kind of whiffy, some more than others, even clad in cotton head to toe I was boggin/ropoch/stinking by the time I got into my car at the other end. The worst part were the mosquitos, despite the air france flight staff spraying the cabin with that horrid insecticide they spray, there were still mozzies flying around the cabin when we arrived in Paris.
My non outdoor pursuit clothing combinations are dictated by where I'm going, and what I can carry hand luggage in my wee sack. If I can't wear it on the plane/heated airports etc without melting, and it won't fit in my bag, then it doesn't come. Last year in Kiev (-25 out and about) I was warm enough stood all day in -5 (inside) in a woolen shirt sandwiched in the middle of layered thin synthetics, levi 501's and synthetic long johns, wool socks and hoggs sensible shoes, commando soles, add the wooly bunnet gloves and my jacket, I was fine wandering round the city at night.
Synthetic base layers for me, if it's cold, poly cotton if it's in the 14 to 16ºC range and I'm not going to sweat too much. I've been wearing wool shirts atop a synthetic (poly cotton in summer, although there's always a synthetic set of thermal simmit and breeks in the bag) base layer for almost all my outdoor stuff this last while, summer and winter, and I just can't see past it. Atop that it depends what I'm up to, wool sweater or synthetic fiberpile/fleece top and then ventile goretex and what ever my Keela munro is made from(?).
Wool works on several levels for me and in my experience is a more versatile material than most give it credit for, it doesn't shift moisture outward as quickly as synthetic materials, it's heavier and doesn't pack small (especially when damp), but on the other hand there's something more wholesome about wool, it makes me feel like I'm wearing clothes in a way synthetic tops don't.
One other downside of wool (shirts in my case), when combined with synthetics is that one can build quite a head of static electricity if padding round in rubber boots, shocking.
I don't care how bad I may or may not smell, airlines? I've a carbon foot print the size of Godzilla, 28 flights so far this year, off to Latvia and Lithuania this weekend then Dubai and Doha next week. After that Aberdeen, then it'll be the start of the trout season
Smelliest I've been this year on a plane was returning from Douala Cameroon back in January, clean when I left the digs, soaked through twice by my own sweat prior to boarding, and then cooked in my own juices in the seat (fortunately I was up graded, I must have looked needy at checkin) whilst we sat on the stand for two hours due to someone dying (I think so, they looked dead to me as they were eventually carried past) on board prior to take off.
By the time we were in the air the whole lot of us were kind of whiffy, some more than others, even clad in cotton head to toe I was boggin/ropoch/stinking by the time I got into my car at the other end. The worst part were the mosquitos, despite the air france flight staff spraying the cabin with that horrid insecticide they spray, there were still mozzies flying around the cabin when we arrived in Paris.
My non outdoor pursuit clothing combinations are dictated by where I'm going, and what I can carry hand luggage in my wee sack. If I can't wear it on the plane/heated airports etc without melting, and it won't fit in my bag, then it doesn't come. Last year in Kiev (-25 out and about) I was warm enough stood all day in -5 (inside) in a woolen shirt sandwiched in the middle of layered thin synthetics, levi 501's and synthetic long johns, wool socks and hoggs sensible shoes, commando soles
, add the wooly bunnet gloves and my jacket, I was fine wandering round the city at night.
As said it's horses for courses in the outdoor game. Especially in the temperate climate of the UK a lot of fabrics struggle to cope as they're trying to be the master of a lot of climatic conditions. GTX only works in a narrow band of temperature and humidity. Most clothing is better when worn in sympathy with each other. GTX needs a layering system to work efficiently like everything else. In the UK it mainly comes down to moisture management whether from precipitation or perspiration. Personally I could never get GTX to work for me as I pumped out a lot of moisture. For years didn't wear waterproofs when working/playing outdoors. For me it was wool/tweed.
Another consideration for me was blending to my environment. That meant I didn't want smell, noise or UV reflection giving me away. Most synthetics smell quite quickly as stated and are noisy when you move. Also most synthetics reflect UV light more giving you away to mammals. So I always wash my clothes in a non scented UV soap with no UV brighters. (Nikwax usually). As even the best synthetic cammo will stand out like a halo with normal detergents. I also like to be relatively sparkproof when near open fires.
So my clothing regime is layers of wool (don't wear too many I prefer to be slightly cool than sweating and moist) though I have relented in recent years and bought a set of Paramo outers as they are quiet, don't reflect UV light and allow my perspiration out. Not near the fire though. Boiled wool, tweed and normal wool fit me the rest of the time.
Cotton is great in extremes. In the desert or in cold dry climates it works rather well, regulating your temp/moisture better than synthetics and it too like wool doesn't pick up a smell so quickly. (Not for socks though, wool all the way there in varying thicknesses).
Leather boots as they polish and proof up nicely and protect my feet better - though I do use wellies or mukluks as the conditions apply. Down is unsurpassed for compressability and warmth though once wet has no thermal properties whatsoever. But on a cold dry belay there's nowt better for me.
Animal skins have uses elsewhere - not just boots, one of my favourite winter hats is a sheepskin job (and think of the traditional afghan sheepskin waistcoats) which is so toasty - especially after a head shaving episode. Leather gloves are good too. Goatskin is good as it's very grippy when wet and retains it's strength. Silk is good for under layers due to non smelliness and strength too. In fact it's supposed to be stronger when wet?
So find a system that works for you and your purpose and be comfortable.
Another consideration for me was blending to my environment. That meant I didn't want smell, noise or UV reflection giving me away. Most synthetics smell quite quickly as stated and are noisy when you move. Also most synthetics reflect UV light more giving you away to mammals. So I always wash my clothes in a non scented UV soap with no UV brighters. (Nikwax usually). As even the best synthetic cammo will stand out like a halo with normal detergents. I also like to be relatively sparkproof when near open fires.
So my clothing regime is layers of wool (don't wear too many I prefer to be slightly cool than sweating and moist) though I have relented in recent years and bought a set of Paramo outers as they are quiet, don't reflect UV light and allow my perspiration out. Not near the fire though. Boiled wool, tweed and normal wool fit me the rest of the time.
Cotton is great in extremes. In the desert or in cold dry climates it works rather well, regulating your temp/moisture better than synthetics and it too like wool doesn't pick up a smell so quickly. (Not for socks though, wool all the way there in varying thicknesses).
Leather boots as they polish and proof up nicely and protect my feet better - though I do use wellies or mukluks as the conditions apply. Down is unsurpassed for compressability and warmth though once wet has no thermal properties whatsoever. But on a cold dry belay there's nowt better for me.
Animal skins have uses elsewhere - not just boots, one of my favourite winter hats is a sheepskin job (and think of the traditional afghan sheepskin waistcoats) which is so toasty - especially after a head shaving episode. Leather gloves are good too. Goatskin is good as it's very grippy when wet and retains it's strength. Silk is good for under layers due to non smelliness and strength too. In fact it's supposed to be stronger when wet?
So find a system that works for you and your purpose and be comfortable.
Similar threads
