Dogs

[Emdiesse]

Hello.

I'm sure alot of you probably have dogs, and i was wondering if you could answer this for me

My next door neighbours have two alsations. One male, one female.

The male is quite big and is not fully grown but is starting to bulk out and it is a bloody scary bugger.
The female is quite and seems to be a nice dog, it is however trained to go for peoples arms, etc if they run, it is an ex security dog or something.

I got home one day from athletics and when straight into the garden to talk to my mum dad and neighbours because at the moment we are putting a new fence up so it is open.

To my suprise the dogs where out. The female dog was quiet and took no notice of me. The male dog started barking at me, and to be honest i was terrified.
It didn't bite me it just barked and looked as if to say "come any closer mate and your lunch"

Basically, whilst i was doing some work outside helping my dad put up the fence they brought it up to me on a lead and it was fine, it saw me, no barking, it looked away and i stroked it, it looked at me and i went to stroke it again (as you do) and it barked and went to go for me so the neighbour held its lead tight. then it calmed down again

When it had calmed down my neighbour said, its odd, if i let the lead have some slack it will probably still be calm. It was for a bit, then ran towards me barking, so he held the lead tight and took it in.

I know the best thing is to stand your ground, but i can't help but jump, i tried my best to stand my ground but it is a scary dog. Ussually i turn to my side, widen my stance and brace myself (not intentionally, just instinct), and at one point i backed down, and moved away about a metre (whoops).

I don't like just standing there tempting to stand my ground incase it bites.



Should i always stand my ground and back up at no costs?
Should i not look into its eyes?
Should i sout stop it to it?
What should i do?


Thanks,
Emdiesse

 

[Razorstrop]

Having had dogs around me all my life, this still isnt an easy question to answer.

Should I stand my ground? Well if your going to get bit , no is the answer. If you are confident you wont then do so.

Should I not look in its eyes? Again all dogs are different and staring in the eyes can be a test of wills. Its something I have always done to 'break' my dogs, but they are my dogs would I do it with a stangers, maybe only briefly to see what the situation was. Its not something I wholeheartedly recommend for you to do, in all honesty.

What should I do to stop it?
Shout loud...."Back" or "away" or osmething else short, be firm and in control, dont scream and shout just get your toughest voice and try to dominate the dog verbally.

In general, dogs like most animals have a built in sense of when people are scared of them and react accordingly. Be calm and assured at all times and only raise your voice when you feel like you are just about to be attacked.

At the end of the day theres one more thing to remember, they arent your dogs and it really isnt your place to command them, the owners should be doing that, if they are not and the dogs are causing a problem, maybe you should take it up with the RSPCA or your local dog warden.

Hope this all helps, if theres anything else you want to know PM me and I'll help if I can

Woof woof
Mr Strop

 

[Emdiesse]

Thats hard because i don't know the dog, we moved 6 months ago, they say it won't do anything.

 

[BorderReiver]

Not a pleasant situation.

A few tips,NEVER pat a dog on the head,to a dog you are dominating it.Rub its' flanks or neck.

Try ignoring the dog,(when it's with it's handler) let your hand hang by your side and let the dog sniff you.

Try letting it take some treat out of your hand while you are ignoring it.

If all else fails keep out of its way and suggest that the owner takes it to correctional training.

 

[Emdiesse]

Thanks guys.

 

[Abbe Osram]

If pepperspray is ok in your country, in germany it is here in sweden it is not, then buy one. That gives you already an option and calms you a bit.
If he is attacking you give him a good spray in the eyes that puts him into place and you will not have a problem anymore. If that dog is not police trained it should be ok with that. I guess that guy who has the dog is a nutty who loves to build his ego with such a dogs, maybe he went to a training but if the dogs a propper trained they will not attack you.

Have the spray ready, stand, dont run and spray if he attacks you.

cheers
Abbe

 

[Emdiesse]

Ah, well he has two dogs, one is not trained in anyform i do beleive and is the one that barks at me. (bark worse than bite?)

The other (the female), is apparently the one to watch out for because it has been trained to jump up and grab your arm if you run.

I'm sure, i'll be fine because the owner would never let it bite me. One because he seems a good guy and two because i'm sure he wouldn't like to see his dog put down.

 

[directdrive]

Pepperspray works well. So does ammonia in a water gun or squirt bottle. A big, sharp stick works wonders on a crazed animal. It could "accidentally" impale itself. If a dog does attack you and you are without any defense, give it your non-dominate arm to chew on. Yes, you'll be severely bitten but you will make the choice of what gets bitten and not the dog. The arm is better than the throat or the groin, don't you think? If you can, poke its eyes out while its chewing you up......it will let go........Hopefully, you won't have to do anything. Sorry if this post has offended anyone. I am a dog lover myself but will make every effort to kill or severely injure one that attacks me or another person.........Bruce

 

[Emdiesse]

Pepperspray works well. So does ammonia in a water gun or squirt bottle. A big, sharp stick works wonders on a crazed animal. It could "accidentally" impale itself. If a dog does attack you and you are without any defense, give it your non-dominate arm to chew on. Yes, you'll be severely bitten but you will make the choice of what gets bitten and not the dog. The arm is better than the throat or the groin, don't you think? If you can, poke its eyes out while its chewing you up......it will let go........Hopefully, you won't have to do anything. Sorry if this post has offended anyone. I am a dog lover myself but will make every effort to kill or severely injure one that attacks me or another person.........Bruce

Yes, i wouldn't want to kill or injure it, but heck, if it goes for me it will be shown no mercy (how would a human fair against a dog? I can't see how it would be very well for us since we are naturally the tool bearers and today's society eliminated the need to carry around tools all the time, therefore lessening our chances of a win, but how do you think a human would far in a modern day situation?). My immediate reaction the first time to it was t stand there with my arm guarding me (at the time i had keys) i held the keys ready to give it a jab if it bit me (didn't even think just got into that position)

Afterwards i realised several mistake i made and you have just also pointed them out, to defend with non-dominant arm. I also thought if it gabbed my arm the ayes would be the best place to go for.

However, I wouldn't want to end up in a fight with it because i'm sure once it gets to know who I am it is a nice dog, its probably just scared of me at the moment and is trying to dominate.

Just got to work out how to show it that it is not the dominant, hopefully without maddening it.

 

[Marts]

If the dog is acting in an aggressive manner in front of its owner then it is pretty clear that the owner is at fault - its likely that the dog believes it is the owner's protector and not the other way around. The owner needs to correct this, not you.

As to how to deal with an aggressive dog - well in the situation you've described it sounds like clear pack challenging. Best adivce (and I know this can be hard when confronted by a large dog) Ignore it completely. Bark and posture are used to say 'I'm bigger than you. I'm more dominant'. By ignoring it you send a very clear doggy message that he is not important enough to be acknowledged. The 5 minute rule is usually enough for any dog to understand the situation and its place in it - when you first encounter a dog pay it no attention, even when it tries to get it (by barking, nuzzling, nosing etc.) This will help the dog to understand its pack position relative to yours; a crucial thing for any dog. Of course this all needs backing up by the owner .

Probably, as I've seen so often, the owner is sending the dog mixed messages all the time and the dog is simply confused (Although this sounds like it is not an issue for the trained bitch, who i'm guessing is quite comfortable with her own position and feels no need to challenge for it).
From what you've described - tightening the leash then loosening it, holding the dog back then letting it loose, not acknowledging its barks of concern, not taking a dominant stance as owner - All of this is designed to confuse a young, large, hormonally-excitable male dog.

Send the owner to correctional school

 

[anthonyyy]

Those dogs should be both put down immediately and the owner prosecuted. If you do not report this to the police you are morally responsible for any injuries caused by the dogs in the future.

 

[outdoorcode]

First off if a dog barks and growls at someone it doesn't deserve to be put down , it and its owner need training

I have 3 german shepherds (and a pug ) and one will bite a sleeve on command, but man work or sleeve work is a game to the dog not an aggressive or nasty trait.. at least you shouldn't pick an aggresive dog for this type of work, though many do

If the dog is barking at you when the lead is tight its because the owner is showing his nervousness through the lead, the dog can feel the tension and thinks something is wrong so he starts to warn you off .... if the dog is happy enough when on a slack lead and will let you get near or stroke him build on that ... give him treats and tell him he's a good boy he learns you aren't a threat and that nice things happen when he sees you.
Is it a communal area or low fenced area where you keep meeting? if the dog is able to get at you when you are in your own garden then you need to address this with your neighbours, tell them honestly that you don't trust the dog, and they should really be with it at all times if there is any chance of it getting into your garden.


thats my 2p spent

Andrew

 

[pumbaa]

I have heard of many ways to defend yourself from a dog attack , but many of them are a bit hit and miss .
I would never let my dog ( a rottweiler) act in that maner . I am the pack alpha and he knows that . I am the only person that he will play rough with , even then he will get a bit too wound up and overstep the mark . So i throw him to the floor and lay on him with my full body weight , this prevents him from moving so he cannot do any harm and asserts my dominance with out the need to beat him . I only let him up when he has stopped trying to get up , again reinforcing my dominance . Ok he is a big dog at 40kg at 8 months old , but he has been dominated from day one . Even though his dad was 13 stone and i expect him to reach a similar weight , i am bigger and heavyer and am confident that i can still do this when he is fully grown . He has no need to challange , he knows his place . The only time i struggle to get him to do as he is told is if there is a bacon butty about !!!! I have 6 year old twins and trust him completely with them .

This is him at the dartmoor meet (thanks Joker)
Pumbaa

 

[Motorbike Man]

Those dogs should be both put down immediately and the owner prosecuted. If you do not report this to the police you are morally responsible for any injuries caused by the dogs in the future.

Sorry Anthonyyy, but that is a HUUUGE over reaction to this situation. It needs to be made clear to the owners that the dogs are causing a concern and then it is their responsibility to do something about it, moral or otherwise. To turn around and say that Emdiesse would be morally resposible is just ridiculous.

Something else that hasn't been pointed out is that the police will look very poorly on anyone having pepper sprays or ammonia spray etc even as self defence as this would come under carrying a weapon with the intent to do harm.

 

[ilovemybed]

Those dogs should be both put down immediately and the owner prosecuted. If you do not report this to the police you are morally responsible for any injuries caused by the dogs in the future.

I'm sure that's not necessary!

If the female is properly trained to take people down, she should also be trained to only do it on command, and to do the least possible damage. It sounds like she's a well behaved dog too.

As for the male - it's a juvenile who still has a lot to learn and it doesn't recognise you. All it needs is to learn how to behave. They're naturally quite nervous.

I used to work at a place where we had 3 Alsatians. Should someone wander the perimiter during night-time and you'll think the hounds of hell have been unleashed. Barking, gnashing, dog spit everywhere and the biggest teeth you've ever seen. I nearly had to empty my wellies the first time they did it to me. All posturing though - if you were on the inside of the fence, regardless of who you were, they'd be like kittens.

I'm sure as you get to know them they'll warm to you.

 

[WNZer]

I agree with most of the statements,

Ignore it, pretend it isnt there, then it should leave you alone.

Do not put your hand over its head, hold your hand out and let it smell it.

If (at the risk of sounding like a bigot myself) you are not Caucasion, then the dogs will need some time to get used to you, its just the way they are, I used to own a Dobermann and this Chinese family moved in down the street, I was running him in the park then heard barking and he had this poor Chinaman holed up a tree, it was most embarrasing to say the least

My Father was a police dog handler and he said the best thing you can do in a dog attack is to stick your hand down the dogs throat, obvisouly not for the timid but alright by my born and breed Duniden Father, the worst possibal thing you can do is run and cause even more excitment, ie - running away, screaming and flailing arms all over the place will get you bit on the bottom, LOL

 

[BorderReiver]

the worst possibal thing you can do is run and cause even more excitment, ie - running away, screaming and flailing arms all over the place will get you bit on the bottom, LOL

That's the mistake most non dog people met when they are faced with an exitable dog,they pull their arms up,which in dog language is "jump up on me and play!!"

If they would only stay calm keep their hands to their sides and turn their backs to the dog there usually won't be a problem.

 

[gregorach]

Thats hard because i don't know the dog, we moved 6 months ago, they say it won't do anything.

Heh - I used to be a postie, and if I had a pound for every time I've heard that...

 

[outdoorgirl]

Some very interesting comments here on this subject. Firstly, any issue with any dog that is acting in an unfreindly or aggressive manner towards you while it's owner is present is entirely the fault of the owner, and not the dog.

If a dog has been trained to protect a property and you approach it (whether it is loose or chained) don't be surprised if it goes for you. It's doing what it's been trained to do.

However, an owner should teach the dog that aggressive behaviour towards anyone while he is present is not acceptable. It is always the job of the pack alpha to deal with this, and while it may be acceptable for an initial bark or growl to be given by a subordinate, he should always be put quickly back in his place by the alpha (the owner). This is normal pack behaviour for dogs, and they are much happier knowing that someone else is in charge, and that they can relax and have a good time.

So, firstly, it sounds like the owners need to be taking the dog to an obedience class. I'm not convinced of the appropriateness of teaching a dog to 'go for you' if you run - what if this happened to a child? However, I don't know the specific training this female dog has been given so won't comment further. The male dog needs to know his place in the pack hierarchy and, as a large, strong dog, this should be done as early as possible so there are no bad habits to break. It sounds like this may already have occurred, so I'd encourage the owners as much as possible. It's not expensive, and it results in a much happier dog, and a much more pleasant life for everyone.

Until they have the dog trained, you should be very careful around it. Never stare at it or make eye contact unless you are very sure that you can dominate it, as this in dog language is a challenge.

As always, the best form of defence is not offence, but avoidance - don't get into the situation in the first place, or defuse it if it starts to escalate if you can.

Outdoorcode's advice is good. Make the dog associate you with good things. If you know you are going to meet him, carry a bag of something tasty and smelly - garlic sausage is usually a favourite (pepperami works very well). Almost all dogs are food-motivated and respond well to this kind of training.

Training of dogs is far too large a subject for one post, but in summary, encourage the owners to go to dog obedience classes (or they may end up either giving the dog away or losing it becasue they can't control it) , and try to 'train' the dog to see you as the nice man with the tasty treats...

ODG

 

[R-J]

Those dogs should be both put down immediately and the owner prosecuted. If you do not report this to the police you are morally responsible for any injuries caused by the dogs in the future.

DUDE! calm down there... i'm guessing your a cat person!

for my tuppence worth, the ignoring route is probably the best way. if it tests you, get big (puff out your chest, raise your arms out to make yourself look bigger) and get your most aggressive and deepest voice to say F**K OFF! if you dont feel confident in doing that (some peope cant carry that off) there is a soulution.

its sounds odd, but get a little coke bottle and but some pebbles/marbles in it. try and carry it if you think you might see the dog (i know its not that easy) and if it gets aggressive shake it like hell! it'll scare the bejesues out of the dog (unless its been trained for man work) and it'll backdown. i've seen a little 55 y/o woman (friends mum) doimate a huge huskyxGSD in this way. he listen to her totaly and if he looked like he was gonna "start" she just reached for the bottle.

a chat to the owners might go a long way aswell, if they do the "he's harmless" line (which in all fairness he probably is) just explain how you feel. they should help.

hope that helps,

Rob

ps, pumbaa thats a cracking pup youve got there!