Dogs

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outdoorgirl

Full Member
Sep 25, 2004
364
12
nr Minehead
get your most aggressive and deepest voice to say F**K OFF!

It actually doesn't matter what you say, as long as you say it loudly and deeply... :)

i've seen a little 55 y/o woman (friends mum) doimate a huge huskyxGSD

It doesn't matter how big or small you are, it's how dominant you appear to the animal. The lady who runs our local obedience group is a 5'2' grandma, but she makes a staff sargeant look like a wimp! :)

Tricks used in training like the pebble filled bottle (used to get attention usually) include water sprays (not pepper spray or mace, as they're illegal as pointed out elsewhere), Vick (yes, the mentholated stuff you rub on your chest), and squeaky toys - I've seen all these used to great effect on dogs from Pomeranian's to enormous Alsations and Huskies.
 

Carcajou Garou

On a new journey
Jun 7, 2004
551
5
Canada
Like a lot of post have mentioned, he is a young confused dog getting mixed messages from his owner and his own hormones. The male is starting to look at sorting out a pecking order out of his daily contacts and you would be in that list by default. Never run away just invites the chase response, most dogs will charge and then break (false charge) looking for a response, keep your hands low, hands over your shoulders/head = play/fear response. Keep hand low, flat open, vertical in front of you, allows him to scent; do approach owner about problem before it gets out of hand, this has to be resolved soon as it will become a lifelong domineering problem, dog is only going to get bigger. Don't stare at its eyes, as direct eye contact is a escalating trigger response in animals unless you want to prevoke a response (biggest dog) but do keep it in your sight. Someone said feed it your non-dominant arm I guess this would be OK in an emergency, try using a walking stick then let it grab that, it will shake the living p***s out of you or the stick don't fall down or a world of misery will follow stay up take the hit, think!!! If it has a collar grab it firmly and if you can try to lift it off the ground as far as you can (had to do that a few times), young dog will be confused by the new sensation and possibly relent, at least stop applying pressure to the bite. The social interactions between you and your neighbour and his animals is going to be complicated he may not see it as aggressive, as any postman will tell you, owners never believe their dogs will bite till they do, then the victim suffers and the dogs ends up paying dearly with their lives. May not be the best advice as every situation and circumstance is different I hope this resolves in your favor. I have had large breeds all of my life and usually do what Pumbaa does with his good looking Rotwr. they are too large and powerful not to be raised properly but a joy to live with when they know their place and are confident in their role in the family. CG :yo:
 

gaz_miggy

Forager
Sep 23, 2005
165
1
39
Hereford
ok iv had a sheperd in the past the thing uv got to remember is they are very very protective of there pack and home if u met the dogs outside there teratry they would be fine with u, also the old saying they can smell fear is sort of right its body languige just be positive with them u have to read to dog but if uv not been round them much you wouldnt be able to do this very well. the only thing to do is realy lisen to the owner theyll know the dog better.
 

Tantalus

Full Member
May 10, 2004
1,048
131
60
Galashiels
some dogs just dont much like some people

i have seen house dogs take objection to specific visitors over and over again

posties are well aware of the "uniform" thing, but it could be glasses , skin colour, gait, beard or voice pitch

or none of the above, just something that the dog remembers from past experience

first thing is to ask the owner if you can get to know the dog, maybe go for a walk or two with it. Important if you are going to be regularly in contact with the dog.

then there are tricks like having a dog treat in your pocket all the time. the dog should quickly forget his game if he realises you can be relied upon for the occasional treat

with a strange dog i often crouch to appear less threatening, hold my hand out and say the dogs name or just "here boy" "good dog " and stuff

crouching may sound like inviting trouble , but it is not impossible to defend yourself from a crouch if you have to

but the best thing is to try not to further upset the dog if you can, normally if they see you crouch and become less of a threat they will wait and see what this means. Screaming and running away is the dogs idea of an invitation for a game of chase

Hope some of that helps

Tant
 

led

Settler
Aug 24, 2004
544
5
uk
Lots of good advice here. If you're going to try feeding it treats, then either eat or pretend to eat one yourself first. Then wait 10 seconds or so before giving one to the dog. It'll serve to reinforce the fact that you are higher up in the pecking order than they are.
 

ilovemybed

Settler
Jul 18, 2005
564
6
43
Prague
WNZer said:
My Father was a police dog handler and he said the best thing you can do in a dog attack is to stick your hand down the dogs throat, obvisouly not for the timid but alright by my born and breed Duniden Father, :D

I was looking for an article I read which provided a similar piece of advice, except that was an African man in his 70's who fought off a jaguar that had attacked him by putting his hand in its mouth and pulling on its tongue until his mates came and finished it off.. :eek:. Now that's a well hard grandpa!
 

R-J

Forager
Jan 26, 2005
197
0
43
norwich
outdoorgirl said:
Tricks used in training like the pebble filled bottle (used to get attention usually) include water sprays (not pepper spray or mace, as they're illegal as pointed out elsewhere), Vick (yes, the mentholated stuff you rub on your chest), and squeaky toys - I've seen all these used to great effect on dogs from Pomeranian's to enormous Alsations and Huskies.

a gentle rattle is good for getting attention, a vigours shake & noisey shake usualy puts off even the most determined dog.

i was just using an example of it working with a small person and a big dog to prove it works because i'm not sure how confident Emdiesse is with dogs :)

and yup, doesnt matter what you say, its how you say it. its just that people seem to find it easyier sounding dominant saying F**K OFF! then PINK SLIPPERS! both would have the same effect, if said at the same tone, but the F word is easyier :lmao:
 

BorderReiver

Full Member
Mar 31, 2004
2,693
16
Norfolk U.K.
A dog is always harmless until it bites someone.

"oh he's never done that before" is a common refrain.

IMHO people should be trained and licenced before being allowed to keep a dog.

You can't ever be sure 100% how your dog is going to react in a given situation.

I speak as someone who prefers the company of most dogs to most people. :)
 

Emdiesse

Settler
Jan 9, 2005
629
5
Surrey, UK
I have read alot of your replies and have found alot of them helpful :D thanks guys, i will try my best to get on with this dog, I wouldn't like to see it be put down either, recently when i have been walking to get into my house and it barks from the window i have been ignoring it because i also thought, maybe if i ignore it, it will beleive it serves no threat.

At first when it wa on slack it was fine, it only started barking last time I do something threatening (doesn't feel threatening to me but as a non-dog person i don't understand (like reaching out arms to stroke it and looking at its eyes. I have heard if you catch eye contact it is best to wait for the dog to look away, unless if it is a rottweiler. True?).

I never try to run away because everyone sayd not to, i never have ran away from a dog and don't plan to.

Thanks, i will get round to reading each post hopefully to pick up on tips. Thanks guys :D
 

JonnyP

Full Member
Oct 17, 2005
3,833
29
Cornwall...
No advise really, just my sympathy. We used to have a GSD bitch next door (was called Lady, but was not one). The constant barking at all hours drove us mad. It would bark at anyone walking past,cats, kids and I swear Blackbirds farting would set it off. The owners could not handle it and the dog was boss. Anyway, its gone now......Hooray...................Jon
 

pumbaa

Settler
Jan 28, 2005
687
2
50
dorset
Emdiesse said:
unless if it is a rottweiler. True?


There is nothing wrong with rottys mate , they are a breed that gets a lot of accusations cause of their size and strength . I find that small dogs are more agressive . Having said that i wouldnt like to see what would happen if someone acted in a very threatening manner to my family members ! They have a big heart and plenty of courage , but enjoy a cuddle big time .
Pumbaa
 
Just as a matter of interest, some years ago when my Mum was showing dogs at Crufts, she used the get a magazine called Dog World (I know, it's like something out of the headlines round from Have I Got News For You :lmao: ) and they once did a survey on which dogs made the best and worst pets. As it was a while ago, I'm not sure on the criteria, but one of the things that stuck in my mind about it was that the dog that came out as most unpredicable was actually the Golden Labrador
 

BorderReiver

Full Member
Mar 31, 2004
2,693
16
Norfolk U.K.
Motorbike Man said:
As it was a while ago, I'm not sure on the criteria, but one of the things that stuck in my mind about it was that the dog that came out as most unpredicable was actually the Golden Labrador

In Pedant Mode: Yellow Labrador,Golden Retreiver. :p

Probably due to popularity and being bought by numpties.

Nothing worries me more than seeing a big dog which has an IQ bigger than its owner.

This happened to GSDs when they were "fashionable" and to some extent with Rotties.
 

Emdiesse

Settler
Jan 9, 2005
629
5
Surrey, UK
I had a thought. Would a muzzle be effective for it to get used to me without me being tound it wityh fear, because i know it won't be able to hurt me with a muzzle on and it might get used to me and eventually not need a muzzle around people.

@Pumbaa: Yeah, I can see how the accusations may have developed, they do appear to be big strong dogs, but i'm sure they are friendly in there own right, just seem a bit daunting. It doesn't help knowing that they are meant to be the bravest of dogs aswell though :p.
 

Razorstrop

Nomad
Oct 1, 2005
314
6
North West
Probably not, if the dog isnt used to wearing a muzzle to start with, then its going to object to wearing it now. And if the silly hound starts to associate the muzzle with you, then that could be problematic

Mr Strop
 

Carcajou Garou

On a new journey
Jun 7, 2004
551
5
Canada
When I delivered for parcel post the dogs that attacked and bit me the most were small poodle, chihuahua, toy breeds followed by med. breeds etc... went through a lot of pants with the leg ripped and torn charged to the dog's owner if they still wanted postal delivery. Rotweiler, German Shepards, Labrador Ret. large breeds never gave me more than the look over, never met a Rotweiler or Shepard that I did not like. CG :yo:
 

ravem

Member
Nov 18, 2005
28
0
56
Italy
Emdiesse said:
What should i do?

I think you should talk with your neighbour about this.
He knows the dogs and knows how they act with other people
and he's the one the dogs must recognize as "dominant".
If he can control his dogs he can also make them recognize
you as a friend.
Meanwhile, you have the right to feel safe, so you must pretend the dogs
to be in a closed place until the fence is up again.
And make it higher enough :D

If you're afraid of dogs search for some breeder or dog trainer and
ask for advice, maybe even a good a friend who owns and knows
dogs can help you.

bye
 

Cairodel

Nomad
Nov 15, 2004
254
4
71
Cairo, Egypt.
Hi Folks, wot a coincidence... Here's an article to be published in our magazine (British Community Association Chronicle) this month, from a local trainer...

Dog Talk: AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR
Aggression in dogs is the most serious behavior problem that pet owners must deal with. It is a complex behavior because of the many factors that come into play when determining its cause. In this article, I would like show our readers some of the causes and how to control this behavior.
Genetic and hereditary factors play a major role in aggression. Working breeds such as Dobermans, German shepherds, and Rottweilers are expected to be more aggressive than Golden Retrievers and Labradors. Usually, it is the breeder's choice that can influence the aggression factor in the coming litters. Responsible breeders know what they can do to control aggression. On the other hand, novice breeders here in Egypt try to promote aggression, confusing it for fighting drive (a balanced strong temperament, a quality needed to have a good guard dog).
Inbreeding can create unstable temperaments; which can contribute to aggressive tendencies. Breeders in Egypt, due to limited resources tend to inbreed, which results in aggressive or extremely timid dogs.
Environment -- lack of socialization, excessive punishment, being spoiled or given too much unwarranted praise by owners, being isolated from human contact or being exposed to frequent teasing can also influence aggression. In my kennel, I meet dog owners who complain about their dogs showing aggression towards them when they try to take away anything from the dog. Clearly, there is an issue of alpha role in the house and it's obviously not assumed by the owner.
Dogs have a pack order that determines their social rank, a pack order that is established and maintained by body language. Some dogs occupy dominant or alpha status, and some have low rank. When dogs live with people, they look at humans as members of the pack and try to establish their place in the social order by challenging the more submissive family members, particularly the children. If dogs display a dominant gesture such as growling while guarding the food dish, and they are not corrected for this behavior, they have established a bit of dominance to build on with any or all family members. If these dominant gestures remain uncorrected, the dog slowly but surely gains in status over one or all family members.
The subtle signs of dominance usually go unnoticed or are explained away until the dog bites the human for infringement on his alpha position. The owner misunderstands the progression of behaviors and blames the dog for biting "for no reason." actually their owners misunderstood the development of aggressive behavior.
Type of Aggression
There are several types of aggression: defensive aggression induced by fear, pain, punishment, dominant, possessive, territorial, predatory or parental behaviour. A dog may exhibit more than one type of aggression at a time in different situations, depending on the behavior stimulant.
Dominant-aggressive dogs are confident, macho, and they stand tall, with their ears up and forward. They carry their tails high and wag it slowly stiffly from side to side. Dominant-aggressive dogs are demanding of attention and excessive affection. Many of these dogs will not obey commands, especially submissive commands (such as "down"). If encountered by one of these macho males, don’t pull their trigger and avoid any direct eye contact. They will rise to the challenge and they will be at you before you know it.
Defensive-aggressive dogs display submissive body language (ears back, often flat against the head; avoidance of direct eye contact; lowering of the head and body; tucking tail between the legs; submissive urination) and they lick hands and roll over to expose their bellies. They resist handling, hate to have their feet touched, don't like to be groomed, and often shy away from human hands. These are the fear-biters; they may snap if cornered and will often bite at people who turn and walk away.
Preventing aggression
The primary goal is simple - never allow any dog to achieve dominant status over any adult or child. If the dog always knows their social ranking and is never allowed to challenge people, they will usually be good family members.
How to Avoid Dog Attacks
Do not run when confronted with a threatening dog. Running only stimulates the dog to increase its aggression.
Hold your ground and demonstrate moderate dominance by telling the dog firmly no. It usually works wonders...
Avoid direct eye contact, which the dog interprets as a challenge. Instead, appear nonchalant.
When the dog begins to back away, slowly retreat also, keeping the dog in view, but without paying much attention to it. If the dog begins to come back, stop and wait until it moves off again.
Don't turn your back on the barking animal
As a last resort, throw or pretend to throw an object at an aggressive dog.
If attacked, "feed" the dog your jacket, bike, purse, books to distract it.
Hope it helps EM.
 

Alchemist

Forager
Aug 1, 2005
186
1
45
Hampshire
Here is my bit if anyone is still interested in this thread.

Firstly, no dog or breed that is correctly trained is a serious threat to you. Saying that, certain breeds do need to be trained better than others because of temperament and sheer physicality.

I do love all breeds for their own variety but it is Alsations that **** me off at the moment. Actually, it is the owners of about 70% of these animals that do my head. They normally get the dog because its big and hard. And because its big and hard they constantly keep it on the lead, dont socialise the thing and dont let it have a free run when they go for a walk. If you want two dogs to fight then the surest way is to let them meet each other on the lead. I have met some fantastic alsations since moving and the biggest thing these all have in common is that the owners let their dogs meet other dogs and play.

If you are a Dog novice then speak to a few dog owners as well. I have 2 Jack Russells, soft as s***. Because they are JRs they play fight each other all day, they are total nutters. they sometimes gently nip or bark at people or other dogs because they want to play (not to fight). This is no harm at all, if you ignore them they go away. this is also not perfect behaviour but I am not a perfect owner and if there is anyone out there with a perfectly behaved JR then they probably have a dog with no character. The point is that the b******s can smell your fear. Also, try to read the signs better, he might just want a hello and a bit of respect.

If you are going to stay next to this dog for a while then I suggest you calmly ask your neighbour to socialise you and his dogs one evening. Only if this fails repeatedly should you even consider some of the extreme measures some people have mentioned.

Must go, the boy caught a Rabbit earlier that needs preparing.
 

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