Dogs - who owns what and how did you choose it?

[Paul_B]

But are cockers any good for us? I guess an ideal would be a kind of smaller Labrador. It sounds like spaniels could be a bit too much for us. Especially considering up to 2 days could have 3 hours either side of an hours walk alone. Possibly no time alone but at doggy daycare or the whole day with only dogs for company as the other 2 options to a midday walk.

Oh it's kind of put me off spaniels now. Back to breed research again.

 

[santaman2000]

I have no personal experience with either Cockers or Springers but regarding dogs in general I'll have to plus 1 Macaroons opinion of show dogs; yes, you're buying looks. However I have heard that the German Kennel Club is somewhat different in that they require field trial qualification before admitting a dog into show competition (no idea how true this is)

Labs are good dogs but they too have a fairly high energy level the first few years (or some of them do anyway) and they're over your stated size requirement.

 

[Janne]

Our show cockers only went ballistic on these occations:
Feeding time
Walking time.

Dogs sleep a lot, the older, more sleep.

As I wrote earlier, many people say it takes a lot of work keeping a show cocker looking nice.
Yes it does. Unless you simply cut off the hair to a practical level.

 

[Paul_B]

Do you have experience with working cockers? Is there a real and noticeable difference in what they're like to keep?

 

[Paul_B]

You've somehow got Cocker and Springer reversed;

My comments were a paraphrasing of the comments from the breeder. Both his and his quotes from another breed expert and a breed rescue charity for working cockers and IIRC springer and possibly gundogs in general too.

I don't know how much it's true or not but it's put me off. Whether that's the aim of the emails. I did look at a Scottish working cocker breeder who flatly refused to consider non shooting owners. His dogs had to be worked to the gun or you didn't get one. His breedline wasn't even that good compared to my this current, local guy. Only a handful of field champions compared to a majority.

Now this isn't about time being put into the dog. I'm fully expecting a puppy to need training and a lot of one to one time. Consistent approach and all that. It's part of what I'm buying into, the training of a dog into something that is happy, healthy and fits in with us as much as we're fitting in with it.

The picture being painted is of some dog tall need all day long attention. The idea that such a dog is almost incompatible with a young child. Which do you want to bring up? Child or working cocker?

It doesn't seem right to me. Which begs the question, is he trying to say he won't sell to me because I'm not a shooter just doesn't want the bad image of actually saying it? Afterall I'm very local to him. I bet we know some of the same ppl, or my family does.

BTW I know how to get the dog used to the the gun. A farm near me is next door to a place where they shoot. The owners are friends with the owners of the shooting land and can hop over the fence to join in the shoot free if they wanted. I've had the offer of dropping in to get my dog used to it. Indeed if asked I'm sure they'll let me use a field for training. They've certainly got more land than is being used. Would make a good place to run a dog daycare business if you ask me. Spare barns right next to a spare field. Power can be put into say a wooden summer house / gazebo to allow heating. Capability to make own toys and agility kit. Owner is very good with animals especially dogs. Taught me a lot.

 

[Paul_B]

Do you think breeders have a high opinion of their breed / dogs?

I mean do they often claim they're better in some way which means they need more attention which they don't really? Say hyper intelligent so need stimulation, higher maintenance, more bonding to one person sort of thing? Like working dogs need a lot more activity and mental stimulation than show dogs? I expect they do but not by that much.

 

[Janne]

When I was young dad had a hunting trained cocker. Died when I was 19.
He was trained to retrieve, but was also in the house as a pet.
Then as an adult we had 2 show cockers. Pets.

The difference between those three was that the first one was less playful, and when in the forest (foraging, walking, camping) he was very focused on the surroundings. Tense like a wire.
The other two were much more relaxed outside.

As it was close to 40 years between them, and bred in different countries, this can I guess be the difference in character.

The working cocker wanted much longer walks, he could spend the whole days outside, the after 5 minutes (a meal) inside he was by the front door again, ready for another adventure!

The last cockers loved outdoors too, but after maybe two hours walking they were happy to come home and relax and sleep.

I am by far no expert, this is just my observations. I guess dogs are just as diverse as us!

 

[Janne]

Some cockers have hanging lower lids. This will cause frequent eye infections.
The first (hunting) and second (couch potato) ones had this.
Also the ears are a problem, they need to be cleaned often, or they will get infections in the ear canal. I think most breeds with hanging ears and lids have these problems.

To minimize the hanging lids problem, check out the eyes of the parents. We did this with the third coach potato.

 

[Paul_B]

The breeder I was looking at was fully clear on the dog for all main health tests they do. Genetically clear as in no offspring could ever get those diseases / conditions. The bitch was also clear of the conditions. I believe that means if I got one and bred from it (most likely getting a bitch) then it would not produce a puppy with these conditions. Basically very healthy.

A friend did this when choosing her dog. Then when planning a litter for the bitch tested, clear for everything but not fully clear. Bred it with a fully clear one and the pup will also be fully clear I believe. Hip and other scores should be almost zero, as good as you can get because their bitch was low (5 or 6) but the dog was even lower (3 or 4).

Yes, ears are a big thing to clean and check on such dogs. Eyes I thought would be a risk too because certainly show cockers seem to have dragged / droopy eye lids at the bottom.

I'm tending to think that I should look again at what breed we go for. Any ideas? A dog to train easily, walk all day, easy to live with, good around kids (always supervised), medium to small and able to be left for up to 3 hours tops up to 2 days a week.

I'm not into cross breeding of two pedigrees eg cockapoo, labradoodle, etc.

 

[Macaroon]

A black Labrador from good working stock is not much bigger than a male Springer, much smaller than the golden and chocolate types you generally see as pets; great with kids, will go all day, highly biddable and amongst the most faithfull of breeds.

You'd be wrong to ignore cross-bred dogs outright. Provided you keep away from the fashionistas and the breeders who serve that market, first-cross (and first cross only) animals have a great deal going for them. They are imbued with what's called Hybrid Vigour and are almost always stronger and more robust than either of the parent breeds and shrug off the problems associated with them. Genetically, the first cross takes the best of what's provided by the parents and benefit greatl by doing so.

Traditionally, in an area like mine, folk needed hardy, intelligent and resilient dogs to put food on the table. Those dogs needed to catch rabbits for food in an area that is densely wooded and very steep and interspersed with small market gardes and forage farms. Running dogs like Greyhounds and Whippets, whilst fast enough, were too delicate for the conditions, and Collies want to herd, not hunt, but breed the two together and you get a perfect animal for the task at hand. This happened all over the place with parent breeds chosen to provide animals to suit the required purpose, and when you think about it this is precisely how we got the breeds we have today.

Two things interfere with the above, the first being the whole fashionista influence........I'll make no further comment on that; the second is when people breed these animals with each other. The results of that are unpredictable so people would always use first-cross dogs only.

 

[Stew]

Plenty of dogs can be left for more than three hours a day.

I think you're over thinking it a bit.

 

[Broch]

Plenty of dogs can be left for more than three hours a day.

I think you're over thinking it a bit.

Yep, until I retired my spaniel was happy dozing for over six hours - never so much as a puddle (but that's gun dogs in my experience). It's very natural for them to eat then sleep.

BTW, you'd be dewy eyed if you saw how my spaniel is with the grand children (18 mths, 4 yrs and 8 yrs) - she's my Grandson's best friend (according to him).

 

[Paul_B]

I think lurcher breeders of note do that mixing of breeds often down to eighths I believe. A few years ago, when single with what I believed to be an opportunity to get a dog, I looked very seriously into lurcher dogs. I even offered to help with rescue chains. These are when lurchers in a pound about to be put down are found emergency foster homes. The only issue is to get them from pound to foster home. Take chains are when ppl making journeys offer to carry the dog along their journey to link between other volunteers. It works well. Businessmen traveling halfway up the country do the hard miles during the day and others fill in what they can.

I offered Preston northwards but unfortunately they had passionate lurcher owners that were able to do a greater distance that fitted in better with the other regular volunteers.

At that time I read about a breeder who had been heavily criticized over his lurcher breeding. Apparently he had been in negotiations with Russians from the far north of Siberia somewhere. That remote region had a specific breed of husky that is unique to the area apparently. They guarded their dogs passionately and it took a lot to convince them to take one of the few such breeds to leave that area. He mixed them into his lurchers to leave something like an eighth in it. By that I mean one great grandparent was this husky. Something like that.

Why? Well that breed of husky had all the characteristics of huskies (run all day long pulling sled) but they were also impressive hunters, herders and guard dogs. Indeed they were also prized family dogs too that lived in with the family. Very intelligent and very trainable. I think it was said they train themselves.

Anyway that breeder had always had the reputation of producing very trainable and highly intelligent lurchers who made very good hunting dogs. These husky included mixed breeds only made them better.

How much of that is true I have no idea. It was something that I heard in a few lurcher and greyhound forums. Nice story and I appreciate good breeders know how to optimize their bloodline to produce quality dogs for the intended purpose.

 

[Paul_B]

Over thinking it. I'm sorry but I firmly believe if more ppl over thought dog ownership you'd have less need for rescue centres and fewer dog cruelty cases. If rather fuss too much over my decision than jump in and regret it.

I might not regret it but making sure of things allows for a better fitting dog for our family. A cocker might not suit, I'd rather find that out before taking one in.

I'm definitely over cautious about it. I know that and the reason is because I firmly believe too many ppl do not have a lifestyle suitable for the dogs they own. They manage but I think it's better for me to get this right.

 

[santaman2000]

Stew's right in that most dogs can and do fare very well left alone for 6 to 8 hours. That said, you're quite right to choose well before you commit Paul. A dog is a commitment for 8 to 17 years (depending on the breed) Research well, choose well, and get the best fit possible for both your sake and the dog's

 

[Paul_B]

Local agricultural buy and sell group on fb. Lethal! My lass has a thing for collies. "Aaaaaw!" may have been heard for miles last night after I got her looking through b the listings. Started looking at one entry for cocker pups from kc registered stock. Ended up with collies, beardies and kittens.

Apparently it's a good idea to get a cat now. She hesitated about the cost of a good cocker (£700-800 round here). Now she's happy shelling out on collies, cats and I am not showing her the alpacas I saw!

Personally I'm as bad. A saluki x lurcher litter took my attention. They don't have the feather to the ears a saluki has which IMHO is good, I don't like them on Salukis. They look a short hair type of lurcher (they're a cross with a lurcher so they're a simple lurcher). Ears kind of like a JRT with a curl to them. Lovely greys and white colouring plus a couple with another colouring. Not good fit a 5 year old though (otherwise known as prey! ). My dad would like it. Rabbit problem at times. Sheep too at times but that isn't the a dog to sort out.

 

[Bywrongun]

I have a Weimaraner and they really do suffer from seperation anxiety but he is also one of the most loyal friends I have ever had. Hey comes running, camping and mountain biking and generally just sleeps when he is home. He also has a slightly terrifying bark and I can't pee alone without him following. If you have the time they are the best companion you will ever have.

Sent from my SM-T719 using Tapatalk

 

[KenThis]

After a few bad years I've recently been well enough to get myself a dog.
First and foremost I wanted a companion/therapy dog. One that would just want to be around me and do what I wanted to do. Go on walks whenever I wanted to, and be able to stick being out all day and in all weather. But equally be happy to cuddle on the sofa and enjoy a snooze.
I wanted a smaller dog because I have limited accommodation and wanted to keep my food bill lower.
I wanted a smarter dog that I would be able to train, and who would keep me on my toes, as I like to be challenged.
I wanted a dog that would be very healthy and have few if any hereditary weaknesses (I was a geneticist by training and couldn't imagine perpetuating a breed with health issues).
I wanted a quieter dog, again due to my accommodation issues, and one that I could leave (with training) to tolerate time alone.
I also wanted a bitch because I can foresee a time I get a second dog and bitch first, dog second is a good combination to maintain order.
Finally I wanted a dog that had lots of character and that I thought was good looking.
After a lot of research, I ended up getting a Border Terrier pup at the beginning of November. She's gorgeous and I couldn't be happier.
However I also considered Miniature Snauzers, Welsh terriers, Boston Terriers, etc. I would have loved to have had a Beagle, but unfortunately after reading it on them, they just wouldn't have worked for my situation.
Any dog is going to be a lot of work and also rewarding. Both you and the dog will end up compromising to get along. So if I were you I'd make a list of the most important things you want in a dog and then go through some of the breed finders online. Then do your breed research and if possible join a breed forum and ask questions. I'm sure you'll then get what you want. Good luck.

 

[Paul_B]

I thought a border terrier was a good choice too. I used to know a couple with two. Great characters. A little of the old terrier issue of going deaf if it catches a scent. Not as bad as some like the Patterdale terrier. Another mate rehoming one at 4 and she was not really trainable by then. After it's disappeared during a walk for a couple of hours then trotted back up to our group with a little claret around the chops he had to pass it on. Sheep attacks aren't worth the risk. He passed it on to a townie type who really only did parks and easy walking routes where it could be controlled better. It did well with them I heard.

 

[Paul_B]

Saw two JRT crossbreed puppies. A quarter Patterdale I believe. 15 week old and a little bit of training is getting through. The female sits before being picked up and fussed.

I saw them in the back yard of its owner. The owner came out. It's always nice when a dog owner is friendly by the simple act of showing interest in their dog. She brought them out on leads to meet us. They were real cute and friendly.

It's led me to raise the JRT suggestion again. I really do believe JRTs very a bad reputation with the yapping, snappy thing. It's not always like that as a breed. I've nothing but good experiences with them. My grandparents had one and it was so affectionate with kids. So patient and loyal. It had two times each day that it ran outside to particular locations in the garden to bark furiously at nothing. One place at each time, in the orchard at the end of the garden and against the fence by the big tree. One morning the other about 4pm. The rest of the time it was quiet.

It walked whenever we wanted to and an adult was free to go with us. It walked good on the lead and came back to us indeed when we walked out didn't want to leave our sides. It was the same with all the kids in the family.

Snapping? Hmmm. I never really noticed it. Only remember one time. It was sleeping after a walk and feed in a warm room in the sun. I wanted to stroke it. He gave me enough warning to leave him alone. So it snapped. A rather slow snap that I easily moved my hand away from. It never wanted to catch me. It did work, I left it alone. It came to find me afterwards and I got a real fuss made of me.

Put it simply, if I could find a dog like that for my son then we couldn't ask for anything better.

Now the only issue is to find a JRT like that and then persuade my partner it's the right dog. Oh and stop her getting a border collie. Seriously not the right dog for us but she's got a real crush on them.