Xtar flashlight runtime - bogus?

[hughtrimble]

Evening BCUK,

I've recently taken up SCUBA diving and am looking for dive torches. In doing so, I've come across plenty of ~1000 lumen torches, running on a single 3500 mAh 18650, and most estimate runtimes of 1hr30-2hrs.

However, this Xtar D20, also using a single 3500 mAh 18650 claims 4hr runtime at 1000 lumens: https://www.torchdirect.co.uk/xtar-professional-range/xtar-d20-1000-led-diving-torch-kit.html

Is this actually possible?

 

[Jared]

The ANSI standard is the time it takes from turning on with the stated lumens to decline to 10% of that stated lumens.

So with a fresh battery it'll output 1000 lumens, but will decline over 4 hours til it's 100 lumens.
It also probably has thermal protection, so will likely step down if it's gets too hot.

 

[hughtrimble]

The ANSI standard is the time it takes from turning on with the stated lumens to decline to 10% of that stated lumens.

So with a fresh battery it'll output 1000 lumens, but will decline over 4 hours til it's 100 lumens.
It also probably has thermal protection, so will likely step down if it's gets too hot.

Ah, so is it possible the others are reporting on the time it'll stay at full whack, whereas this one is tapering?

 

[Jared]

Xtar mention specifically ANSI.

All will taper. Heat generated at 1,000 lumens will cause lumens to drop or the flashlight kills itself. Being a dive light in water is going to have better cooling than air, so don't know how much that'll effect the light.

 

[Ozmundo]

I can’t comment on Xtar brand. Those features for the price, I have some doubts. One review says expensive, I’d expect to pay a lot more retail for that performance.

I suggest Orca torches. More expensive and made in the Far East like everything else. The ones I have give my Green Force and Ammonite lights a run for their money.

D560, D520 & D700. Mini 500 lumen, Small 1000 lumen and Medium 1000 lumen.

These are all twist head on/off no power levels or modes. Simple and reliable. They do button models if you like. All the above will go in a bcd pocket.

I shall be in the water, not catching Crayfish, tomorrow.

 

[hughtrimble]

Xtar mention specifically ANSI.

All will taper. Heat generated at 1,000 lumens will cause lumens to drop or the flashlight kills itself. Being a dive light in water is going to have better cooling than air, so don't know how much that'll effect the light.

Thank you Jared

 

[hughtrimble]

I can’t comment on Xtar brand. Those features for the price, I have some doubts. One review says expensive, I’d expect to pay a lot more retail for that performance.

I suggest Orca torches. More expensive and made in the Far East like everything else. The ones I have give my Green Force and Ammonite lights a run for their money.

D560, D520 & D700. Mini 500 lumen, Small 1000 lumen and Medium 1000 lumen.

These are all twist head on/off no power levels or modes. Simple and reliable. They do button models if you like. All the above will go in a bcd pocket.

I shall be in the water, not catching Crayfish, tomorrow.

Likewise, and I must admit, I thought similar of OrcaTorch when looking compared to e.g. Mares etc. and also the lack of non-sponsored reviews.

Enjoy the water!

Do you find a spotlight 1000 lumens sufficient for murky UK waters? I've read conflicting advice on this, with some suggesting that's OK for a backup, but more oomph needed for primary.

 

[Ozmundo]

I learnt to dive when a powerful torch was 150 lumens and needed a micad the size of a brick.

If you are videoing then some lights are better. Generally a 1000L spot is fine for bumbling about and something smaller to check gauges etc.

I do have 3000L + umbilicals for wrecks etc but most of the time they are running on lowest power. If the in water visibility is very low due to particles/turbidity then the more output the quicker you go blind!

The pocket size light are always useful as back up and travel. I know a few people use Tovatec/Intova lights and I’ve heard their customer service for replacing heads etc is good, ie. Fast.

I always assume that anything electronic will go kaput in the sea. Just how long it takes!

 

[hughtrimble]

I learnt to dive when a powerful torch was 150 lumens and needed a micad the size of a brick.

If you are videoing then some lights are better. Generally a 1000L spot is fine for bumbling about and something smaller to check gauges etc.

I do have 3000L + umbilicals for wrecks etc but most of the time they are running on lowest power. If the in water visibility is very low due to particles/turbidity then the more output the quicker you go blind!

The pocket size light are always useful as back up and travel. I know a few people use Tovatec/Intova lights and I’ve heard their customer service for replacing heads etc is good, ie. Fast.

I always assume that anything electronic will go kaput in the sea. Just how long it takes!

Thank you for this Ozmundo - yes, the shine-back from particulates in the water must be quite dazzling from the really powerful ones, especially flood-type heads. I'm sticking with spotlights in this search at the moment, simply because I can imagine a floody one getting really annoying for both myself, and those I'm diving with.

I'm quite tempted by the sealed units which have magnetic charging ports, to try and minimise the risk of water ingress through joins, even if double o-ringed. Though then there's the disadvantage of not being able to quick-change a battery and having to just wait for the integrated battery to charge.

This one seems rather good (frankly too good), and reviewed positively in BSAC's December 2022 SCUBA magazine: https://www.ndiver.com/fusion

 

[Ozmundo]

Go for it.

I might get an xtar at some point to test it. Might be able to get work to buy one.

It might be worth checking if spare o-rings are available when you get a light. There are some nice torches that you can’t find parts for in the UK. Brexit seems to have made this worse.

The Orca torches tend to have three o-rings on the twist head models and come with spares.

I tend to like not button lights as I bungee them to a harness and they get switched on.

If you’re in a club hopefully the members will let you try out some of theirs.

 

[Nice65]

Sofirn make a couple of dive lights, one is 1200lm, this one a bit more. Their quality and customer service are excellent.

Sofirn SD05 Scuba Dive Flashlight, 3000 Lumens XHP50B LED LED Powerful Waterproof Light, 100m Underwater

Features: 1. Super Bright: SD05 equipped with a XHP50.2(6000K-6500K) LED can max up to 3000 lumens, the beam distance of this diving waterproof flashlight is up to 100m(max). 2. Smart Design: The magnetic-ring switch makes operation easier,rotating the magnetic ring to turn on/off the light and...

www.sofirnlight.com

 

[hughtrimble]

Go for it.

I might get an xtar at some point to test it. Might be able to get work to buy one.

It might be worth checking if spare o-rings are available when you get a light. There are some nice torches that you can’t find parts for in the UK. Brexit seems to have made this worse.

The Orca torches tend to have three o-rings on the twist head models and come with spares.

I tend to like not button lights as I bungee them to a harness and they get switched on.

If you’re in a club hopefully the members will let you try out some of theirs.

That is a really good point - I'd assumed the Fusion R had a lock-out as so many of the other button operated ones I've looked at do. It does not appear to have such a feature, which is irritating given how the slide button protrudes so much. That being said, I have indeed gone for it as it's cheap and light enough to have on hand as a backup (or even a backup to the backup in my luggage).

I do really like the look of the OrcaTorch D570 GL with its green laser, seems like it would be rather useful! It's been in and out of my basket multiple times, as it feels slightly gimmicky especially given I've not seen that feature on any other lights yet.

For the D700, have you ever tried to use it with a soft/hard Goodman-type handle, or is it too long/bulky for that?

 

[Ozmundo]

Not played with a laser. Some dive guides use then as pointers I think to line up shots for photography.

 

[Ozmundo]

I haven’t tried a D700 with a goodman but for scale:



Looks like it would work. The D710 button version may be better though.

One of the dive manufactuers makes a triple light goodman light. It’s three rebadged D520s bolted together and £££ added.

 

[Ozmundo]

It’s actually a tiny bit shorter than an Ammonite cable light. Might also work well as a back up on a goodman with two mounts.
I think it may depend on how much “rise” there is on the mount. The soft ones tend to have the light very close to your wrist and then can interfere with solid drysuit cuff rings, if you go that route of course.

 

[Ozmundo]

A mate of mine uses Sea Dragon video lights. He started complaining that I didn’t use any lights at night.

I didn’t need to. They are so bright and wide angle that it’s like football stadium floods. I am pretty sure the water in-front of him is boiling away! I have to apologise to anyone coming the other way…

 

[Potatohead]

From my past brief experiences with xtar. If you want reliabilty….. avoid.

On the subject of high output LED lights, genwrally anything in excess of 950 lumens will carry a heat penalty and will be for short burst of 1 to 2 minutes quickly ramping down to a lower output.

For penetration in the water have you tried looking at the new (but more expensive) LEP ‘white laser’ flashlight tech? Almost zero spill. Not much use in normal dry land situations buts sounds like it would be ideal to reduce floody wash out against waterbourne debris/comtaminants etc.

 

[hughtrimble]

I haven’t tried a D700 with a goodman but for scale:

View attachment 80664

Looks like it would work. The D710 button version may be better though.

One of the dive manufactuers makes a triple light goodman light. It’s three rebadged D520s bolted together and £££ added.

This is brilliant, thank you Ozmundo. Very good point on the button version being preferable to a twisty if on a hand mount.

Much to learn! I've got a weekend UK inland dive coming up to try stuff out on, so shall see what I can borrow and have a go with from the club...whilst also trying out that Fusion R from Northern Diver which should arrive shortly.

 

[hughtrimble]

From my past brief experiences with xtar. If you want reliabilty….. avoid.

On the subject of high output LED lights, genwrally anything in excess of 950 lumens will carry a heat penalty and will be for short burst of 1 to 2 minutes quickly ramping down to a lower output.

For penetration in the water have you tried looking at the new (but more expensive) LEP ‘white laser’ flashlight tech? Almost zero spill. Not much use in normal dry land situations buts sounds like it would be ideal to reduce floody wash out against waterbourne debris/comtaminants etc.

Ah, another Xtar warning! May I ask what went wrong with the one(s) you've had?

I have never heard of LEP...just Googled it and they look incredibly cool. Not finding many that appear to be diving oriented - certainly some with kind of suitable depth ratings, but they seem to be more of a spec box ticker than designed with that activity in mind. I love the idea of that incredibly focussed beam though! A nice blend between a laser pointer and a narrow spotlight. Thank you for alerting me to this new tech Potatohead! Have you had a crack with any, even in dry land?

 

[Ozmundo]

Just to correct myself the Orca D700 is 1700 max and the D530 is 1300.