Winter 'crafting

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Thecarotidpulse

Need to contact Admin...
Apr 23, 2009
45
0
Ottawa Canada
Wow fun topic!!!!

I'm going to jump in on this and throw in my 0.02 $...

Ok re long log fire... I did a camp once where me and a buddy of mine made 2 lean to's facing each other with a long log fire. I was fine with a -10 sleeping bag and a bivi. (it was -40 C, more with the windchill)
A couple of things to note: You need A LOT of wood!!!!
I don't think one can really embrace it before having to collect it. When your'e talking sustaining a long log fire you're cutting down multiple trees. It's true that you don't have to tend the fire as often if it's a big one, but the labor involved in getting the wood pile is huge. AND if there's an issue with the gross amount of wood in the area then... that's an issue.
The technique described by Ray mears and Mors Kochanski is a valid one.. but not one that i've ever seen an aboriginal culture practice - opting for the shelter and enclosed fire instead as it's much more economical.

They are also hard to set up, because you have to be very savy when orienting them. You need your lean to to be parallel to the wind (ideally) or you face wind/smoke interface issues.
Now it's an issue to find trees in that orientation, or making tripods to support your cross bar, which is even more wood.

Re melting snow... the main turnoff I have always faced when melting snow is that you can filter crap ouf ot clear water by running the water through a tissue or fibers of some sort.
When you melt snow, you end up with bits of bark, grass, fluff... and of course the dreaded yellow snow!!!

What has worked for me in the past when melting snow is that if you melt it in a pot, make some tea out of it right away. You've got the hot water!
The snow in a bag thing has never worked for me... always been too windy to get a constant stream of heat on the snow, and just tons of practial problems.
When i'm melting snow in a pot you throw it on and forget it.

Most common issue with me is your water bottle freezing... There's the old "turn your water bottle upside down" trick which works.. but since I bought the Guyot Designs Stainless Steel bottle (that you can use in the fire) i've never been affraid of my bottle freezing.

Ok Stuff to do... not sure if it's the same for you but you're really restricted with your daylight. I would investigate some torch making techniques.
One of the best investments for me is a gas lantern. Wether you go old fashionned railway style, miner, or a modern naphta Colman lantern (dual burner in my case) the light they throw off is definitely worth the fact that they aren't technically primitive tools. so -1 on the macho scale but + 100 on the practicality / ability to do other macho things.

Do you guys have Pine in the UK? Ray mears talks about some cool light creating tricks, like splitting a branch and putting in some resin for a torch, pine knots, the old "split a pine log and make a stove" trick.

Winter is of course ideal for tracking, I know it's illegal in the UK to lay traps, but perhaps because it's prohibited you can make some practise ones...

Perhaps explore the concept of ice-fishing in some sufficiently small brook that would freeze over...

that's what comes to mind right now.
Cheers!!!
 
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Thecarotidpulse

Need to contact Admin...
Apr 23, 2009
45
0
Ottawa Canada
oh my god.. one more thing to add.
You NEED to get your bedding down.

You can supplement heat with things like hot water bottles, inside fires etc. but if you don't have 2 things down in my experience it becomes impossible to stay warm.
- your conduction heat loss. I use 2 sleeping pads. (count em!) one is a blue foamy pad, close cell. And the other is a standard thermarest inflatable pad like I'd use in the summer.
- your convection heat loss. No matter where you are wind is an issue. make sure you've got something to crawl into... bivy + bag is fine most of the time but I think that shelter + bivy in the winter is great since everything is wet and windy and you could use some added waterproofing/ windproofing to your sleeping bag.
Bivy alone... well... let's just say that that's tough.
 

ex-member Raikey

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 4, 2010
2,971
3
Wow fun topic!!!!

I'm going to jump in on this and throw in my 0.02 $...

Ok re long log fire... I did a camp once where me and a buddy of mine made 2 lean to's facing each other with a long log fire. I was fine with a -10 sleeping bag and a bivi. (it was -40 C, more with the windchill)
A couple of things to note: You need A LOT of wood!!!!
I don't think one can really embrace it before having to collect it. When your'e talking sustaining a long log fire you're cutting down multiple trees. It's true that you don't have to tend the fire as often if it's a big one, but the labor involved in getting the wood pile is huge. AND if there's an issue with the gross amount of wood in the area then... that's an issue.
The technique described by Ray mears and Mors Kochanski is a valid one.. but not one that i've ever seen an aboriginal culture practice - opting for the shelter and enclosed fire instead as it's much more economical.

They are also hard to set up, because you have to be very savy when orienting them. You need your lean to to be parallel to the wind (ideally) or you face wind/smoke interface issues.
Now it's an issue to find trees in that orientation, or making tripods to support your cross bar, which is even more wood.

Re melting snow... the main turnoff I have always faced when melting snow is that you can filter crap ouf ot clear water by running the water through a tissue or fibers of some sort.
When you melt snow, you end up with bits of bark, grass, fluff... and of course the dreaded yellow snow!!!

What has worked for me in the past when melting snow is that if you melt it in a pot, make some tea out of it right away. You've got the hot water!
The snow in a bag thing has never worked for me... always been too windy to get a constant stream of heat on the snow, and just tons of practial problems.
When i'm melting snow in a pot you throw it on and forget it.

Most common issue with me is your water bottle freezing... There's the old "turn your water bottle upside down" trick which works.. but since I bought the Guyot Designs Stainless Steel bottle (that you can use in the fire) i've never been affraid of my bottle freezing.

Ok Stuff to do... not sure if it's the same for you but you're really restricted with your daylight. I would investigate some torch making techniques.
One of the best investments for me is a gas lantern. Wether you go old fashionned railway style, miner, or a modern naphta Colman lantern (dual burner in my case) the light they throw off is definitely worth the fact that they aren't technically primitive tools. so -1 on the macho scale but + 100 on the practicality / ability to do other macho things.

Do you guys have Pine in the UK? Ray mears talks about some cool light creating tricks, like splitting a branch and putting in some resin for a torch, pine knots, the old "split a pine log and make a stove" trick.

Winter is of course ideal for tracking, I know it's illegal in the UK to lay traps, but perhaps because it's prohibited you can make some practise ones...

Perhaps explore the concept of ice-fishing in some sufficiently small brook that would freeze over...

that's what comes to mind right now.
Cheers!!!

nice post mate,...

i,m envious you have such oppurtunity in that enviroment.
 

Thecarotidpulse

Need to contact Admin...
Apr 23, 2009
45
0
Ottawa Canada
nice post mate,...

i,m envious you have such oppurtunity in that enviroment.

Yeah... till you think of having to do this every morning :)

quebec_snow_storms-727155.jpg
 

Retired Member southey

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jun 4, 2006
11,098
13
your house!
I followed a guy last winter who had just cleared the wheels and the drivers side windscreen and diven off with about the same amount ontop of his volvo through forres, the suspesion was creaking all down the road up untill the friendly bobby ran out of the nick on the highstreet stopped him and made him clear it off, he was still there when i drove back home from tesco, pratt,
 
I followed a guy last winter who had just cleared the wheels and the drivers side windscreen and diven off with about the same amount ontop of his volvo through forres, the suspesion was creaking all down the road up untill the friendly bobby ran out of the nick on the highstreet stopped him and made him clear it off, he was still there when i drove back home from tesco, pratt,

thats puttin it mildly mate

i've been thinkin about winter set up and think if i used a space blanket over a wooden reflector it might improve the reflection of the heat more than just wood. Anyone tried this or have i had an original thought?
 

Retired Member southey

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jun 4, 2006
11,098
13
your house!
My only concern would be that the space blanket might catch and give you a bad smell for a bit, if you split the logs for you reflector you will get a better effect with the lighter flats facing you,as it will have a solid wall to bounce of rather than the rounds of the bark coverd logs,
 

ex-member Raikey

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 4, 2010
2,971
3
well couple of different theories to try there then eh :)


try leaving the logs round first as a test,...

wont the larger surface area of the log provide more radiated heat?,...(and absorbtion from the fire too?)

not sure, ,...just did a bit of Climate system training years ago and it came up,.....thinkin out aloud,...s'all..

then maybe split em like Southey says,..and see if the difference is apparent,...either way it would pass an hour and be a good test to report the result of,..
 

Retired Member southey

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jun 4, 2006
11,098
13
your house!
That sounds great, lots of readings to fill the down time(if any), Im going to be trying out an under blanket starting from this sat all through the winter, which will be fun, im only a recent convert to mocking about in the trees so it should be interesting to see the added benefits, ive just unpacked my sewing machine today to so some mods to my jungle bag underquilt should be in order, thinking of attaching the hood to the other side if it fits so as to close up one end but it should also extend the cover of the material,
 

Miyagi

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 6, 2008
2,298
5
South Queensferry
I've seen Stooboy and Andybysea use the double mat method.

Not only are they very well insulated from the ground, but they have an added level of comfort.

hth

Liam
 

Thecarotidpulse

Need to contact Admin...
Apr 23, 2009
45
0
Ottawa Canada
Heyo...


Hammoking in the winter? Surely you must be HA-mocking me....
my recent post was all about staying out of the wind...

You know northern explorers shun using sleeping pads that have air in them as air circulates heat away from you continuously.

Re melting the space blanket thingy... I did some experimenting with that: you'd be surprised at how resistant it is. IIRC i was able to get it within 30 cm or so of open flame with no effect...
Sparks hitting it though is a different story, but its an interesting material because when the spark hits it it sort of bunches up on the spark... putting it out.

If you've got a space blanky as a reflector then there's no need to split the wood. In fact splitting the wood is a valid technique meant to expose the white wood and radiate heat. Also it doubles the amount of coverage that the wood gives you.. but you have to consider the amount of work involved in doing this.
Even with an axe...
leaving your logs round does not dimiinish the amount of heat radiation that you get. (in my experience).

split post, i g2g!
 

Thecarotidpulse

Need to contact Admin...
Apr 23, 2009
45
0
Ottawa Canada
Interesting.

I've always just used a closed cell pad or fern etc, depending upon where I am.

Right... as far as isolating from the cold, I've learned that closed cell is the way to go. thAT being said, I use the blow up matt on top of it sometimes inside my bivvy, because it still has insulative value, since the closed cell pad doesn't conduct heat the limited air circulation will not actively wisk heat away from me, and there is the comfort aspect.

Mors Kochanski makes ag valid point about the different materials involved in making a reflector wall.
Just to define this point... by reflector wall I mean the wall of the lean to that reflects the heat from the fire onto you and NOT a fire reflector that refelects the heat of the fire from 360 * to 180*.

He says that the ideal reflector material is a material that has a high thermic mass, and absorbs the heat and then throws it back out atcha. Ideal is rocks. Wood makes bad reflectors because they dont' absorb much heat...

I forget the specifics and my book is at home (i'm at work) but I will check.

This is why I'm dubious about the value of only long log fire and a lean to... All that nice cozy warmth effect can be wisked away with one good gust of wind.

I think if you're going to do something like that alone, for the first time, I would have a couple of backups.
EX: if it really gets cold and i'm shivering.. what shall I do.
Obviously whip out the old hip flask and take a swig, however you might also think of gathering some rocks and warming them, and doing the hot rock method/ water bottle method.

A couple of hot rocks or a warm watter bottle to the small of your back will do wonders for shivering.

The subject of shelter in winter camping really could be it's own whole thread...there's just so much to talk about.

You should check out Overlnad? the Swedish army suvvival manual... I think it's in the downloads page. It's in Swedish, but the pictures are nice and they talk about different shelter/ bedding materials.
 
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telwebb

Settler
Aug 10, 2010
580
0
Somerset, UK
....It's in Swedish, but the pictures are nice....
Where have I heard that before? Anyway....

Interesting thread this - and potentially very useful - but how would someone cope in a situation where a proper fire just wasn't feasible (I'm thinking thats most places in the UK)? Is the whole mat/bivy/bag approach still the same, but more so, or is a different system required altogether?
 

Thecarotidpulse

Need to contact Admin...
Apr 23, 2009
45
0
Ottawa Canada
Where have I heard that before? Anyway....

Interesting thread this - and potentially very useful - but how would someone cope in a situation where a proper fire just wasn't feasible (I'm thinking thats most places in the UK)? Is the whole mat/bivy/bag approach still the same, but more so, or is a different system required altogether?

Hmm... bring in some philosophy/math here...

"the more you carry in your head the less you carry on your back"
the corollary to that is "the more you cary on your back the less you have to carry in your head"
If you can't use the primitive skills because of restrictions, then you have to compensate with better gear IMO.

An arctic grade sleeping bag = multiple bags one inside the other with a liner inside and a bivy outside.
that under a close fitting tarp is what the Canadian forces use when they are lying in i guess their version of a LUP (lying up position).
Here one of the most common winter shelters is the quinzee (or compacted snow pile that's been hollowed out) - because we have the snow. The snow insulates, so you're talking easy zeros or +5's in there. More if you bring in a candle.

If like you said you dont have the snow option or the tinder stand... I guess you'd have to get a damn good sleeping bag + a flask of Crown Royal.


Hmmm If i click on the Home tab while i'm logged in I "dont have permission to view the page". (a word by the way which has always irritated me.. "permission")
but if i'm not logged in i can check it out.

You can find overlnad here: http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/content.php?r=193-Handbok-Overlevnad

If you can't access it, then log out and try again. Curious as to why this is...
 
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telwebb

Settler
Aug 10, 2010
580
0
Somerset, UK
Thanks for that - I'll check it out.

PS Oddly I'm geting a permission denied page on each occasion I log in atm, but it allows me to navigate away and then go anywhere :confused:
 

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