Whole new ballgame

[spandit]

In the current monsoon weather in the UK South East, the dog (who is largely amphibious anyway) still wanted a walk so I got togged up (old army boots, Peter Storm waterproof overtrousers and MEC parka) and headed out. I wanted to measure the gap between the trees where I'd camped before.

First thing I noticed was that my old boot weren't waterproof and within a few minutes, my feet were wet. It then became apparent that even in driving rain, my parka was too warm & I started getting sweaty.

As I reached the gully where I'd camped, the wind had really picked up and the sight of some large fallen trees reminded me of some of the dangers of woodland. Added to this, the steeply sloping ground was now wet & thus slippery. I could have easily fallen and twisted an ankle, or worse. Phone signal was minimal.

As it was, I made it out alive but it struck me how easily things could have gone bad. It's not cold so having wet socks was uncomfortable, not dangerous but if I'd stopped moving, my sweat dampened clothes would soon cool down leaving me at risk of hypothermia if I'd injured myself & been out all night.

Worth trying out all your kit in heavy rain/wind as we can't all guarantee to be out and about in the 48 hours that constitutes a British summer

 

[Wayland]

Up on the moor that I walk my dog on, a lady slipped on an icy rock and broke her femur.

She was in a gully with no signal and the temperatures were well below zero at the time.

I would have said it was a busy path but she was there for 3/4 of an hour before anyone found her.

She was already starting to suffer the effects of hypothermia and shock when the ambulance arrived.

Even something as simple as walking the dog in a familiar place can quickly turn bad when an injury is involved.

 

[udamiano]

The UK can be as dangerous weather wise as anywhere else. The problem is that many people who get themselves into trouble, are often not that far from home or in a familiar area, and get complacent. or just think the weather in towns and cities aint bad so why would the countryside be any different. how many of us have seen walkers and groups going hill walking in jeans and tee-shirts, just because the weather is good in the valleys. Last year I watched in horror a local College from the Midlands, take a group of 20 students up Cadre Idris, (I was in the same, YHA the night before) &not one of those walking had the right clothing, and as sure as it gets I watched them all come down later in rain, with many of them having blue hands and lips, one lad looked boarder line hypothermic, he had a pair of shorts and a long sleeved jumper on, and trainers, no rain kit, no water !!! just plain irresponsible if you ask me, and if Id have found the walk leader I'd have given him a dressing down.
Anyway rant over.....

I take a little gadget that sends a help signal to a satellite if I get into trouble ((I know what you're going to say about technology always breaking down, when you need it most)). it needs a clear view of the sky, and sends the distress signal directly to the nearest emergency service to my position. It also give a live position that can tie into google maps, via a link, I've used it on a few trips abroad when on my own, so SHWMO can know Im safe and sound (and not down the pub LOL)

 

[mrs toilet digger]

i carry at least 1 foil blanket at all times ( even in my work hand bag!!)
on a trip to scotland earlier this year i walked up criffel with my girls ( 7 and 9yrs) we saw alot of people walking with small kids with t shirts and shorts and little more than a fruit shoot between them.
it started to rain heavily, and turned cold and windy as we reached the top ( we pulled out our waterproofs jumpers etc)... i couldn't help myself but to expain to my girls in a loud voice that, that its nots just for our own safety i carry foil blankets in my bag but also incase we meet someone who might need one too.... ( i had 3 foil blankets and x1 survival bag on this particuler walk).

 

[lannyman8]

go go Mrs Digger.....

 

[mrs toilet digger]

go go Mrs Digger.....

 

[zarkwon]

I'm not so sure foil blankets help much unless you are using them to reflect heat from a fire. There isn't any evidence I'm aware of that they have any special warming properties beyond that of any thin sheet of plastic. It is certainly unsafe to rely on them to keep you warm in bad conditions. http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/FAQ_SpaceBlankets.htm

 

[Sideburnt]

I'm not so sure foil blankets help much unless you are using them to reflect heat from a fire. There isn't any evidence I'm aware of that they have any special warming properties beyond that of any thin sheet of plastic. It is certainly unsafe to rely on them to keep you warm in bad conditions. http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/FAQ_SpaceBlankets.htm

I think you're missing the point. A survival blanket will not keep you free from hypo. for a long length of time. But it will do a good job at keeping any little body heat you do have inside the blanket and also limit wind chill. I imagine the reflective surface is more for the opposite situation, keeping the sun away from you and stopping overheating in situations where sun stroke is a possibility.

I always keep on on me in my work/every day carry bag. I've use it twice.
Once for a collegue who had gotten stuck in the snow, and was waiting for an RAC to turn up. Strangely she didn't have a jumper or blanket in her car at all.
Secondly for some shelter on a beach for my brothers child. The temp picked up surprisingly fast and the kiddo was pretty uncomfortable. It worked very well allowing a breeze beneith the blanket (set up like a micro tarp) and kept the worse of the suns rays away from us.

 

[zarkwon]

Sorry. I should have said there is no scientifically verifiable evidence of efficacy that I am aware of. I am of course aware that there is plenty of anecdotal evidence (just like homeopathy, acupuncture etc). A foil blanket is not a good insulator. It is a good conductor however. If your colleague had needed to lie down in that snow then what little insulation afforded her by the clothes she was wearing would have compressed and her body heat conducted straight through the foil into the snow. Try using a sheet of tin foil to take a baking tray out of the oven if you don't believe me.
Rigging as a tarp in order to afford shade (much as rigging to reflect heat from a fire) is valid in an pinch of course but my point was that most do not use it like that. Many imagine space blankets to be a cure all / substitute for proper clothing and that this assumption is fallacious and potentially dangerous. Of course WE all know better but the point (which you may have missed) is I think still valid.

 

[Sideburnt]

Sorry. I should have said there is no scientifically verifiable evidence of efficacy that I am aware of. I am of course aware that there is plenty of anecdotal evidence (just like homeopathy, acupuncture etc). A foil blanket is not a good insulator. It is a good conductor however. If your colleague had needed to lie down in that snow then what little insulation afforded her by the clothes she was wearing would have compressed and her body heat conducted straight through the foil into the snow. Try using a sheet of tin foil to take a baking tray out of the oven if you don't believe me.
Rigging as a tarp in order to afford shade (much as rigging to reflect heat from a fire) is valid in an pinch of course but my point was that most do not use it like that. Many imagine space blankets to be a cure all / substitute for proper clothing and that this assumption is fallacious and potentially dangerous. Of course WE all know better but the point (which you may have missed) is I think still valid.

Sorry dude, I'm not picking on you but Survival blankets are not made of tin foil, they're made of polyethylene with a reflective coating. Try getting in a plastic bin bag and do a quick spot of jogging, you'll get hot pretty quick as the heat and moisture is being kept inside the bag. Its true with direct contact with either heat or cold they're not going to stop the wicking of heat, but everywhere else where not in direct contact air is kept hopefully close to body temperature.

They're not super efficient pieces of equipment, however they cost next to nothing but they compress down to harldy anything and in a survival (or tricky real life predicament) they're a lot better than nothing at all, and that something might make a real difference.

 

[zarkwon]

No worries mate. All above points conceded

 

[spandit]

On one hand, as you say, better than nothing and could make a difference

On the other hand, could make you complacent thinking you've got a survival solution thus increasing the chances of actually needing it

Reminds me of the research someone did that showed wearing bike helmets actually made it more dangerous for cyclists on the road, as both they and car drivers began thinking they were risk proof:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/5334208.stm

 

[udamiano]

I think the best piece of kit is you. The boy scouts motto of 'Be Prepared' does say it all. A lot of situations could easily be either negated or reduced severity wise with the minimal of forward planning, for example Sideburns above was able to reduce a problem for the kids on the beach from potential sunburn, heat related problems with the simple inclusion of a mylar blanket. being stuck in the car in a snow storm become less of a problem if you have a blanket and jumper in the boot, people I think put to much store in the 'kit' to get them out of a problem once it has happened, where choosing the right kit that will avoid the problem in the start, is much better. Don't get me wrong, I know accidents can happen, and they can't be planned for, but having the right type of equipment will certainly reduce its severity. forward thinking is the best, after that, what will happen, will happen (hopefully something nice)

 

[Sideburnt]

I completely agree, knowledge is the best tool. I have a hangup over 'survival' gear. In Britain you'd be hard pressed to get yourself in a survival situation and a bit of an idiot to put yourself in that situation too, these things are more for preparedness. You'd be an idiot to carry a full wool balnket around every day 'just in case' but when you can fit a wealth of little helpful tools and equiptment into a small space with little addition to weight then it becomes a 'why not'.

The most used tools I carry are my first aid kit - pain killers and plasters. And my penknife. Not because I think they're going to save me, but because they make my life easier.

This is one heck of a thread hog, sorry Spandit.

 

[Tadpole]

"In 1984 two top Canadian anaesthesiologist did a series of experiments with twelve healthy volunteers, testing the thermal insulation properties of metallised plastic sheeting, (which is a 10 µm thick Mylar sheeting with thin aluminium coating.) Clear polyethylene sheeting and 100 per cent polyester thermal bed blanket.

The experiments were carried out on individual subjects sitting in a whole body calorimeter and covered first with a thermal bed blanket bag up to the neck. Then the three materials were tested, one at a time, over the original thermal bed blanket up to the neck. The temperature of the calorimeter was set at normal ‘operating room’ temperature of 18° C. Metallised plastic sheeting provided the greatest reduction in sensible heat loss of all three materials tested.
Over all they found that, there was a 29.7% saving in body heat between having nothing (or just a blanket) covering you and being covered by the metallised plastic sheeting, there was a 20% saving when just covered in a thermal bed blanket, and a similar reading for just being covered in a clear plastic sheet (19.3%) . I take to mean that difference between the three is about 9.7% saving.
However, their findings concluded.
“The reflective surface of the metallised plastic sheeting acts to reduce radiative (the difference between the incoming radiation energy and the outgoing radiation energy in a given climate system) heat loss from the body, while the very nature of the sheeting decreases convective heat losses by eliminating draughts”.
K.S. Chang PHD, R.T. Farrell BSC, J.W. Snellen MD PHD, F.G. King MD FRCP(C)

Most of the saving was made by keeping the ‘subjects’ out of the ever-present draughts.

Since then several others have also concluded that wrapping a body in clear plastic sheeting is just as efficient as Mylar, both, on paper at least, have testable benefits. However, a pre-warmed blanket provide as much protection over heat loss.
One problem that was found in the experiment was the amount of water vapour that condensed on the inside of the plastic materials (the anaesthesiologists recommended not using the Mylar and the plastic near any electrical equipment)"

Both plastic bags and foil blankets are, for about an hour, up to 30% better than nothing, after an hour their effectiveness is reduced by the problems of cooling caused by sweating/respiration .
Keeping the person out of a draught, if necessary using your body to act as a wind break, or covering them up using your coat, and you keeping moving (to keep yourself warm) is just as good as a foil blanket.

 

[spandit]

This is one heck of a thread hog, sorry Spandit.

Yes, shocking behaviour, discussing the subject on a public forum

 

[John Fenna]

I'm not so sure foil blankets help much unless you are using them to reflect heat from a fire. There isn't any evidence I'm aware of that they have any special warming properties beyond that of any thin sheet of plastic. It is certainly unsafe to rely on them to keep you warm in bad conditions. http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/FAQ_SpaceBlankets.htm

I am confused...your own link refutes your argument.... and shows how the blanket reduces cooling when used correctly...
OK they are not as good as being indoors next to a roaring fire - but they do help you stay warmer than nothing at all and are reliable, light weight, low bulk, low cost and easy to slip into your kit for the shortest of walks!

 

[zarkwon]

No, it doesn't. I didn't say it doesn't reduce cooling. I said it has no warming properties beyond that of a sheet of plastic and that it is often assumed by the unwary that because it has the word 'space' in it that it will somehow magically suffice as protection from the elements whilst climbing Ben Nevis etc.