Whittle, Whytel, Whittel and Whittling

[Silverclaws]

Whittle and it's derivates as a surname could it be a trade name from the past as in Cooper for barrels, Fletcher for arrow fletchings etc ?

I understand it is around fourteenth century middle English for ' a knife', but how did it come to be a surname, was there a trade attached to one who carves wood with a knife, was a whittler a recognised trade and what would whittlers have been responsible for making as the name as a surname is common, but what were whittles in the past ?

 

[bushwacker bob]

Frank Whittle carved the first jet engines.

 

[mountainm]

http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Whittle

Is location based, not trade based.
Derived from white hill.

 

[robin wood]

http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Whittle

Is location based, not trade based.
Derived from white hill.

I would question the quality of research of that source, spooner for instance they have this

"Curiously it would seem that the surname has nothing to do with the making of curved eating utensils, although the origin lies with the word "spon". Spoons, at least in Britain, were rarely if ever used before the 15th century, and are later than the surname itself."

Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/spooner#ixzz25IJQ2EPg

This is true enough for metal spoons but wooden spoons were used in smaller quantities in medieval times and it seems likely horn spoons were used in larger quantities and don't survive archaeologically. Either way spooner is undoubtedly a trade name.
​

 

[mountainm]

I would question the quality of research of that source, spooner for instance they have this

"Curiously it would seem that the surname has nothing to do with the making of curved eating utensils, although the origin lies with the word "spon". Spoons, at least in Britain, were rarely if ever used before the 15th century, and are later than the surname itself."

Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/spooner#ixzz25IJQ2EPg

This is true enough for metal spoons but wooden spoons were used in smaller quantities in medieval times and it seems likely horn spoons were used in larger quantities and don't survive archaeologically. Either way spooner is undoubtedly a trade name.
​

So making spoons was a trade in itself? And not part of the repertoire of a more encompassing craft?

 

[blacktimberwolf]

Whittle originates from the border region where folk couldn't decide whether to use the Scottish wee or the English little to descibe small carvings so in the interest of social harmony, decided to combine the two. The rest is history.

 

[robin wood]

So making spoons was a trade in itself? And not part of the repertoire of a more encompassing craft?

that depends on time and place but certainly there have been people who primarily made spoons. My suspicion is that the English name derives from horn spoon makers although we also have the surname Horner. I have seen photos of Russian families producing vast numbers of spoons and when I visited Romania in 1998 there were still folk who's prime income was spoon making. That's not to say they didn't make smaller quantities of other stuff as well. There were two brothers in Abercych Pembrokeshire that made woodware in the early 20th C James and John Davies, they were famed for their spoon making (cawl spoons) though they also turned.

 

[Silverclaws]

It seems the name whittle is a a knife in both Scotland and England, notably Northern Western England and it is also a verb ;

http://books.google.se/books?id=ISU...l=en&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=thwittel&f=false

Also mentioned by Chaucer in the Sheffield Thwitel ;

http://www.theresatomlinson.com/PDFs/shefthwitel.pdf

So old English or is it Scottish bearing in mind the proximity of Lancashire to Scotland, but I still need to know where it came from as Anglo Saxon for knife is not thwitel or is it, in that it is a type of knife ?

I am aware of the Whittle Family in NW England they having come there in the ninth century and left the name all over the place like Whittle Manor,Whittle Hall Whittle Brook and Whittle-le-Woods and nearby Whittle Springs, such a common name up in the North West.

But what type of knife indeed, for it is known the Romans had a folding knife which could be a pocket knife and there are folding knives in modern day called whittlers, so perhaps a whittle was a folding knife used for well, whittling.

 

[bushwacker bob]

But what type of knife indeed, for it is known the Romans had a folding knife which could be a pocket knife and there are folding knives in modern day called whittlers, so perhaps a whittle was a folding knife used for well, whittling.

The Romans didn't have pocket knives. Pockets weren't invented until 1000 years after the fall of the Roman Empire. They had folding knives but not pocket knives.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

Prehaps they called them toga knives

 

[Retired Member southey]

Crevis knife? Is there anything to suggest a derivation from wattle?

 

[Silverclaws]

Penknives came from a small folding blade scribes would use to cut quills hence pen and from descriptions elsewhere a whittle as in a knife was probably somewhere between a dirk and a table knife, it being a thing of use and a means of defence, where the article is described as a fixed blade in that it used a sheath;

According to Camden the town was already "famous for its smiths"; whilst long before, Chaucer, in his Canterbury Tales, had sung the praises of the "Shefeld thwytel," a springless knife carried in a sheath, for defence and general purposes. ( can't find the link at the moment)

And ;

Before 1400, the "Shefeld thwytel", or whittle, was famous all the country over, as Chaucer testifies; the "thwytel" which the immortal miller "bare in his hose", probably being something between a dirk and the domestic table knife. (http://youle.info/history/fh_material/cutlery_and_cutlers.html)

But in general some interesting information of cutlers and their trade^

But with interest it is also suggested the origin of the fine Scottish blades remembered through history were the result of cross border raids into Furness in Lancashire just for the steel.(http://www.freefictionbooks.org/boo...ography-iron-workers-and-tool-makers?start=15)

So what I seek is the origin of the surname Whittle and from whence it came, was it a person of a place name, or was it a tradesman's name or other. I have established a Whittle is a type of knife from history and a split backspring three bladed pocket knife from the present day, but what is the origin of the surname.

Some may wonder why I ask on here, this being a Bushcraft forum, but I ask what I do in some of the most unusual places and that because I see links between the activities and what I seek. Here be knife makers and knife users and often it is with such is an interest in the history and development of their craft, so we never know what may come to light, but it costs nothing to ask and of course what comes to light from all that everyone adds, provides interest to some that read and as Sir Francis Bacon said; Knowledge is power, for even the mundanes have their uses when the time is right.

 

[Hoodoo]

Don't know if this helps.

[C16: variant of C15 thwittle large knife, from Old English thwitel, from thwītan to cut; related to Old Norse thveitr cut, thveita to beat]

 

[Silverclaws]

Don't know if this helps.

[C16: variant of C15 thwittle large knife, from Old English thwitel, from thwītan to cut; related to Old Norse thveitr cut, thveita to beat]

It does actually and so could be the origin of the ''Northern'' and perhaps the original word. I have got onto the Scandinavian wing of the family to do some digging around regards this little gem, one of them is a school teacher and researching into old stuff is his thing.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

You've no doubt seen this ....https://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Whittle