Which tent for winter?

[firecrest]

I was finding my double skin domed tent a tad cold for one person, so I recently bought a very cheap one man lightweight tent with a single skin. I know these are prone to condensation but Ill probably be only using it for the meets, just 2 nights at a time. However, having not used it before I can't decide what would be warmest (though hopefully my sleeping bag, clothes and blankets should be keeping me warm) Is a larger domed tent with a fly colder than a smaller single skin?
If I put my tarp over it at night, will it be any warmer?

The tent I got is this model
http://www.the-big-outdoors.com/picts/GELMINIL_MAIN.gif
I pitched it once and Im a little worried about the stability. I cannot find any information on using these lightweight backpacker tents in wind. Has anyone ever bought one, and how would you rate it?

 

[Gailainne]

I've never seen a 4 season single skinned tent, (doesnt mean they're arent any) have a look at this site cheaptents.

My only experience sleeping in a tent (double skinned tunnel) in cold weather was in Sweden earlier this year, averaged about -8 deg C but hit -20 one night, it was the double sleeping bags that kept us comfortable, that and the sleeping mat and reindeer hide .

The tent was to keep the wind and weather off, from what I remember a tent only accounts for something like a 2 deg C temp difference.

Sorry couldnt be more help.

Stephen

 

[Sniper]

A small tent very similar to that was used by the ACF for several years when they moved from the old canvas ridge tents to the new nylon "Force 10" ones. Can't make any comments on yours Firecrest but I can tell you the force 10 were rubbish. Very little room inside once your in, they had a reputation for being awkward to get in and out of because of the guy lines at the entrance, kit had to be left outside cos of the lack of space. and when you touched the sides, which is inevitable in that size of tent, when it was raining water would wick through the spot. Thin walls are not very good for keeping in warmth and there is no shielded area for cooking in. The new dome style tents with double skin I find are far superior if a bit heavier, they normaly have a porch area for cooking in too. Sorry if this does'nt go down well, just my own personal opinion, I allways go for 1 size up, so if it's just for me I choose a 2 man tent cos it gives me the space for me and my kit wheras a 1 man tent is only big enough for 1 person and nothing else.

 

[scoops_uk]

hopefully my sleeping bag, clothes and blankets should be keeping me warm

If you put blankets over the top of your sleeping bag you may well prevent the bag lofting and insulating you a it should. Sleeping bags are reliant of lofting well to insulate how they should. Putting anything over them that squashes that loft reduces the bags ability to keep you warm.

If you're sleeping solo then as small a double skin tent as you feel comfortable in is generally best, so you reduce the amount of air you need to warm inside. If you're using a two man tent it's worth bringing all your kit inside to try and reduce the internal volume as much as possible.

Simplest solution is to get a sleeping bag that's warm enough to keep you comfy or buy some good wool thermals

Scoops

 

[Sniper]

Stephen that little one man tent you used at the previous meet at Morch's looked ok what was it?

 

[alpha_centaur]

That tents only got a hydrostatic head of 1000 so it may leak.

From what I can remember about tents, excluding draughts: the smaller the tent the warmer it is, beacause you have less circulating air to heat.

In saying this though I've camped out in -5+ in a cheap eurohike double skin tent that's really only designed for summer usage and I've been fine. But I did have an ancient goose down bag at the time and a good mat to sleep on.

 

[Doc]

I see it that in winter you have 3 problems: cold, wind and snow.

I would guess a fly plus inner tent will be warmer than a single skin, though I doubt it would make much difference. Many lightweight tents have a mesh inner fly - great for midgies but I can't see it adding to insulation.

However, hooped bivis are usually single skin, and are small, which is likely to be an advantage for warmth. Anyone tried them and can comment if warmer than a tent?

Regarding wind, the hooped bivi wins here as it is so low profile. Even four season mountain tents don't feel secure when its blowing a hoolie at high level.

The third issue is snow. Some mountain tents have snow valances which provide an adjunct to pegs and better draughtproofing too. My Vaude space packer has these, but it doesn't shed snow well. So far it's not collapsed under the weight of snow, but....

I would be really interested to hear of any views on hooped bivis in winter.

The Argos single skin one man tent was a bit notorious for condensation. Having said that, some people have condensation issues with the £300 Hilleberg Akto, which is generally regarded as the best solo tent you can buy.

 

[w00dsmoke]

I was at one time a greta fan of hooped bivi's for lightweight wintering. The only hooped bivi I've used other than a home made job was the marines issue cammo double hooped bivi. These have been reviewed here many times.

They are certainly warmer than a tent but they are not without problems:
. Warmer, snug, no problems with wind or snow to that matter as it just helps insulate you.
. Suffers terribly from condensation in the cold-even when well ventilated, a down bag will become damp if a significant amount of your exhaled air circulates within the bivi.
. Awkward to get in to-imaagine the scenario, it's raining heavily, your starting to get damp, it's howling a gail and you want to get your wet gear off and into the bivi ASAP, unless you have a tarp for shelter it's near impossible to do it without you and your sleeping kit getting wet.
. On rainless nights they are fantastic.
. You will get a cold face when sleeping with the door/vents open on a cold night, so a muffler is neccesary.

I must admit, I prefer a small geodesic tent for winter camping, it is warmer than my teepee, and I can still cook, do my domestic inside, comfort level increases because of this.

 

[Intertidal]

Firecrest,
Me and Mrs regularly camp in winter - mostly valleys in mountainous areas (Snowdonia, Scotland & Lakes). Mostly we are at locations we can drive to, so weight/bulk is not an issue. We own 5 tents from light(ish) weight backpacking to family sized dome. Our winter favourite is our 20+ year old all cotton Force Ten Mk4. Dunno what it is, but that tent 'feels' warmer. As others have said, reducing draughts keeps things warmer, but may increase condensation. We keep the inner tent closed up at night (mesh panel allows ventilation) but do not peg the fly down tight to the ground (some 'winter' tents have a snow valence for just that purpose and condensation can be considerable).
Our best improvement is to lay a wool blanket over the floor before any other gear goes in, which avoids any clammy feeling from the groundsheet. If the ground is frozen we'll even put down a fleece blanket too, followed by our 'Fat Airic' mats and sleeping bags.
We've used this combo regularly at below -10C and been comfortable. Its quite a lot of bulk, so only really suitable for car camping.
If you've got a bivibag, use that inside the tent too.
Experiment and see what works for you.
Quite a bit of winter camping is about avoiding getting cold and conserving the warmth you generate. We have a pretty good system of cooking, brewing etc all while in your bag. Its all about planning, making sure you have what you need to hand, and avoid getting in and out of the bag or tent too much.

 

[Barn Owl]

I've been using a £9.99 asda 2 man at the last 2 meets at Morchs'.

It's done very well as we've had really heavy rain and gales up there.

Condensation- a bit,but that doesn't matter really as I use a Belgian bag with w/proof bottom or bivi bag.

Only use it to keep wind off mainly.

 

[Gailainne]

Stephen that little one man tent you used at the previous meet at Morch's looked ok what was it?

Terranova Solo, great wee tent, bought it second hand on ebay, that was the first time I'd used it.

I have a snugpac hooped bivi, I used it on the Texa course, but under a tarp, you need to leave both vents unzipped, I zipped the back one up and soaked my down bag because of condensation.

 

[Grooveski]

I would guess a fly plus inner tent will be warmer than a single skin, though I doubt it would make much difference. Many lightweight tents have a mesh inner fly - great for midgies but I can't see it adding to insulation.

I lent a dome tent to a pal once and got it back with the inner trashed by mildew. Used it for years afterwards and didn't notice much difference in the winter at all.
Had to borrow my parents tent in the summer sometimes if I was heading for midgie territory but at the time I was usually up the hills above them.

P.S. Cotton Force Tens are where it's at. I still regret selling mine even twenty years later. Hell of a weight though.

 

[korvin karbon]

IMHO tents are nothing but glorified Tarps, the thermal retention is not great and the only ace they have over a tarp is a groundsheet. Geeting a decent thermalite and sleeping bag will be a better option.

can you guess i loved my first night under a tarp at all

 

[EdS]

bivi bag when winter climbing or my trusted Phoenix Phreak.

Got a Vaude but i've not tried that in winter yet - may be a bit big as it is a 3 person (or 1 bushcrafter and toys) tent.

 

[Oblio13]

There simply is no way to keep a nylon tent from being damp and cold. Nothing beats a canvas tent (especially Egyptian cotton) with either a stove inside or a fire out front.

This is the only pic I could find of our stove, it's a titanium made by "Four Dog". It keeps our large tent very warm even at minus 20 F.

Here are two smaller tents. The one on the left is just a modified tarp, but it reflects the heat of a fire or a hobo stove very well without a tendency to get smokey. The tent on the right is a pyramid with a stove jack. If I could only keep one tent, this would be it.

They weigh roughly double what similar designs in nylon would, but it's worth it to be warm and dry, to be able to cook and dry clothes inside, and to have hot water.

 

[Scots_Charles_River]

Nice setup, what breed is your dog ?

Nick

 

[British Red]

 

[korvin karbon]

Red, you mean you have not been to the Lanesborough Hotel, awwwwww

 

[Shambling Shaman]

If you put blankets over the top of your sleeping bag you may well prevent the bag lofting and insulating you a it should. Sleeping bags are reliant of lofting well to insulate how they should. Putting anything over them that squashes that loft reduces the bags ability to keep you warm.

If you're sleeping solo then as small a double skin tent as you feel comfortable in is generally best, so you reduce the amount of air you need to warm inside. If you're using a two man tent it's worth bringing all your kit inside to try and reduce the internal volume as much as possible.

Simplest solution is to get a sleeping bag that's warm enough to keep you comfy or buy some good wool thermals

Scoops

I was going to say "Holiday Inn"

Scoops has it right.

Main thing is to insulated off the floor. As a rule of thumb - If you had 6 blankets you should sleep on 5 cover with one,

 

[British Red]

Red, you mean you have not been to the Lanesborough Hotel, awwwwww

We prefer the understated flunkies at Claridges. For a simple functional presidential suite for those on a budget though, we occasionally patronise the Melia White House