When Arrows Were Sledgehammers

pibbleb

Settler
Apr 25, 2006
933
10
51
Sussex, England
As something of an amateur Historian I subscribe to the BBC History Magazine. In the October issue I came across the following article that I thought might be of interest to you archery guys. I'm afraid I've had to copy it out long hand as I couldn't find a link so sorry for the size of the file and I hope that it's at least of interest to some of you.

Paul

David Keys reports on tests that demonstrate the true power of the medieval longbow.

Experiments at the Ministry of Defence weapons testing facility are helping to reinstate the English longbow's reputation as a super effective medieval weapon of war.

Over the past 30 years, doubts had been cast on the effectiveness of the longbow. Research suggested that, although the weapon helped break up enemy formations, it was a relatively poor method of killing armoured soldiers. However the new tests - carried out by the scholars from London Cranfield Universities a the MOD's UK Defence Academy, Shrivenham, Oxfordshire - suggest that in fact, the medieval English longbow was a very effective killing machine.

The problem with earlier tests was that some used the wrong bows together with the wrong arrowheads for the armour being tested. The new more accurate experiments have been made possible by research on the bows and the skeletons of two probable longbowmen found on the Tudor warship the Mary Rose, the flagship of Henry VIII's navy, which sank in 1545 and was raised from the seabed in 1982.

The Tests at the Defence Academy have utilised bows similar to those found on the ship.

Using bows with 110,140 and a 150 pounds draw weight (as opposed to the 50-70 pound bows used in some earlier experiments), the energy released at impact was 100-120 joules, equivalent to being hit by a sledgehammer. Shooting at rapid intervals with the correct bows, arrows and arrowheads, a team of skilled archers would have been ale to kill or wound substantial numbers of soldiers in full armour at up to 200 metres.

The research has also revealed that the range was greater than previously thought.

After the Mary Rose work and subsequent research, the major problem which the scholars found was not how to replicate the correct longbow, but how to replicate a professional medieval or Tudor longbowman. Modern Longbow hobbyists who had helped in earlier experiments didn't have the strength and build to manage bows of up to 150 pounds draw weight. Medieval/ Tudor archers practised for several hours a day - not a feasible schedule for most of today's hobbyists.

As shown by medieval examination of the left forearms of the Mary Rose bowman, and those excavated from the medieval battlefield of Towton, the constant use of their arm muscles altered the size and shape of their bones. The nearest the researchers could get to a medieval longbowmans was Mark Streeton from Leicestershire, a blacksmith fro 20 years - and an archer since he was six. Some of the muscles involved in smithing are the same required for archery. He also has an ideal build - short arms and wide shoulders.

The research suggests that the longbow was most effective when used to deliver the equivalent of an artillery barrage. With up to a thousand arrows per second descending at 100mph, casualties would have been high. The tests were coordinated by military historian Dr David Whetham of King's College London, Physicist Paul Bourke of Cranfield University, and bow maker and fletcher Hilary Greenland, Secretary of the Society for the Promotions of Traditional Archery. The full results will be published in 2007 in the journal of the Royal Armouries, Arms and Armour.
 

Cap'n Badger

Maker
Jul 18, 2006
884
5
Port o' Cardiff
This....the long bow made by the Welsh?..lol........After all is said an' done......1000 arrows per 10 sec time frame...armour piercing or not.....would cause alot o' mayhem......an' did..... t' my knowledge........until the advent o' the match lock anyhoo... :lmao:
 

sam_acw

Native
Sep 2, 2005
1,081
10
42
Tyneside
The trouble with these reconstructions is they concentrate solely on killing power. The psychological impact is as important - if not even more so. After all the noise and smoke of gunpowder weapons helped to compensate for the fact that they weren't really that effective as machines.
To go a bit Sun Tzu, the idea is to make the other side run away, not kill them all as it is a lot cheaper!
 

Simon E

Nomad
Aug 18, 2006
275
14
53
3rd Planet from the sun
Thanks for taking to time to type it out. :You_Rock_


I have been an avid reader of articles on the Longbow for a while now, and
I have read 'Longbow a military and social history' quite a few times One thing the author (Hardy) can not get past is how people question how powerful those bows were, not only werethe men training from as young as 5 or 6 years old, they were extremely well paid for their service and the quality of timber in those days will far exceed what paltry samples we have to make replicas from today.

An archer in those days (Edward III era) could hit 10 targets in 1 minute @200+ yards. To do this you would qualify as being adequate as an archer.

There are acounts of arrows piercing 100mm of seasoned Oak, from pinning an armoured rider to his horse, think on this, it went through1 layer of steel, a leg, the saddle and mortally wounded the horse! For the limp wrist academics of today not to beleive that its possible is the same as a couch potato not thinking its possible to run a marathon. People today are just soft, looking back just a century we can see people such as the crew of Shackletons expedition and the feats they accomplished on starvation rations.

We should be making synthetic bows that have the same elasic modulus as top quality Yew and really see what these bows can do in the hands of someone other than an rank amateur.
 

Ogri the trog

Mod
Mod
Apr 29, 2005
7,182
71
60
Mid Wales UK
Simon E said:
There are acounts of arrows piercing 100mm of seasoned Oak, from pinning an armoured rider to his horse, think on this, it went through1 layer of steel, a leg, the saddle and mortally wounded the horse!
Simon,
Thats exactly the passage I was going to mention. Imagine the psycological effect of a mounted knight - the guy that has recruited you into his own private army - screaming like a hurt child as he lay in the mud, stapled to a dead horse!

I shoot in a longbow, draw weights up to the 65 - 70lb mark and the cross section of the handle is about the same as a rake or hoe handle - the Mary Rose staves I saw were about the thickness of my wrist :eek:
Oh for the strength to be able to draw a three figure bow.

Ogri the trog
 

Snufkin

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 13, 2004
2,099
139
54
Norfolk
I do believe that the tests are available on DVD, I'll try and find the links.
Here's a link to Simon Stanley shooting a 145lber, good footage of a camera strapped to an arrow. here .
 

Snufkin

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 13, 2004
2,099
139
54
Norfolk
Ogri the trog said:
Simon,
Thats exactly the passage I was going to mention. Imagine the psycological effect of a mounted knight - the guy that has recruited you into his own private army - screaming like a hurt child as he lay in the mud, stapled to a dead horse!

I shoot in a longbow, draw weights up to the 65 - 70lb mark and the cross section of the handle is about the same as a rake or hoe handle - the Mary Rose staves I saw were about the thickness of my wrist :eek:
Oh for the strength to be able to draw a three figure bow.

Ogri the trog
And they shot with a two finger draw and no tabs!
 

ArkAngel

Native
May 16, 2006
1,201
22
51
North Yorkshire
Good to watch, very interesting.

As an ex-recurve shooter, and part time dabbler with a freinds longbow i can very much appreciate just how skillfull that is.

We were fortunte to have a range capable of 600yards plus. Occasionally we used to have a mad day where the targets were set up at ranges from 200-350yards (Standard 180cm target bosses). Even with my 40lb stabalised and sighted recurve using ultra fast and stable carbon arrows i could hit a 200 yard target say 1 time out of 8 and that target is nearly 2m accross (not a roadsign :eek: ). On a longbow with no sight/stablisation it is increadable. We were a big help in airating the ground round the targets (and killed a lot of worms:D) but only once did i see a target strike at 350 yards.

The level of dedication and skill of these archers is incredible
 

pibbleb

Settler
Apr 25, 2006
933
10
51
Sussex, England
When I copied out the article it was for you guys, as Archery has held little interest for me! But I have to say I'm in shocked by the power shown in the clip and referred to in the article.

Paul
 

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