whats wrong with Bcuk?
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At the end of the days guys. if you don't like what you see, then delete the shortcut from your desktop or faves folder, nobody forces you to be here, it's like many things in life, it's a choice, nobody is forcing you to read uninteresting threads, or are they? 
On a personal note, i have learned loads from the guys on here and have made many new friends, i returned to Bushcraft earlier this year after a long layoff, i didn't know where to start and the "Kit Threads" proved to be invaluable, i didn't have a clue what i needed or indeed how to go about some things, so i asked the questions and got the answers i needed, ok some times i got different answers to the same question, but then it's all information and i took that information and made a decision as to which answer was the best suited to me, somethimes none of the advice i was given gave me the info i was looking for, but it allowed me to find my own path.
There are many threads on the site that don't interested me, so i don't read them, once a again a choice, if i see something that grabs my fancy (cheeky) i read it - again a choice, nobody forces me to be here, i am here because i want to be, i don't post answers to things i don't know about, but am willing to learn from the more experienced and indeed less experienced guys, you never stop learning.
On an IT front, i have written many websites and still run a couple as well as being a member of many different forums, not all related to Bushcraft, and they evolve, for instance, one of the websites i maintain started off at under 1Mb in size it has evolved in the past 6 years to over 75Mb in size, think of this site as an animal, then go and read Darwins - Evolution of Species, you will get the idea.
On a personal note, i have learned loads from the guys on here and have made many new friends, i returned to Bushcraft earlier this year after a long layoff, i didn't know where to start and the "Kit Threads" proved to be invaluable, i didn't have a clue what i needed or indeed how to go about some things, so i asked the questions and got the answers i needed, ok some times i got different answers to the same question, but then it's all information and i took that information and made a decision as to which answer was the best suited to me, somethimes none of the advice i was given gave me the info i was looking for, but it allowed me to find my own path.
There are many threads on the site that don't interested me, so i don't read them, once a again a choice, if i see something that grabs my fancy (cheeky) i read it - again a choice, nobody forces me to be here, i am here because i want to be, i don't post answers to things i don't know about, but am willing to learn from the more experienced and indeed less experienced guys, you never stop learning.
On an IT front, i have written many websites and still run a couple as well as being a member of many different forums, not all related to Bushcraft, and they evolve, for instance, one of the websites i maintain started off at under 1Mb in size it has evolved in the past 6 years to over 75Mb in size, think of this site as an animal, then go and read Darwins - Evolution of Species, you will get the idea.
The great thing about forums is the people in them... when I signed up, even though you didn't PM me, tomtom didTony said:Thanks for the offer ScottI've got the automated email welcome set up, it was the personal touch that I miss having the time for. People joining the site knew there was a human being welcoming them rather than a bit of software.
What's wrong with BCUK? From where I sit, not a thing. Perhaps the original poster should re-evaluate their needs and adjust their priorities accordingly.
Adamscott2 said:
Hi Adam, i think you've hit the nail on the head,the way i see it, it is that its taking longer to get the info to learn new things because you have to do more leg work to find it compared to the early days of this site. I know how you feel as i to have been coming to this site for a long while and it has changed,but i also realise that there are always novices strarting from scratch who need to ask questions. I was once a novice myself
So I don't mind trawling through loads of posts to get that wee extra new nugget of info.We now live in a society where everyone wants everything yesterday and in double quick time.An example is Karate,at my old club everyone wanted to be a black belt in quick sharp time but when asking the old masters they said it would take a lifetime.My point you may ask, well its like this,alot students dropped the art because they did'nt want to do the leg work,the many hours doing the rubbish stuff as they saw it to get to the goal.
Karate learned me patience,so as i say i don't mind going through the myriad of posts to get to my goal, as i to was a begginer like all who are new to bushcraft.
One thing i feel has not been mentioned enough in this thread is that there is more to this site than "just a resource of Bushcraft material ".
I found myself in a rather deep hole not to long ago , and it was with thanks to the great characters on this site that i got out of it . I was trying to dig myself out with my bare hands . The people on this site didnt offer a piece of rope to climb out , nor did they offer a spade to dig myself out . What they did was give me the knowledge and support to make a spade or a rope myself !
Give a man a tool and he will break it , give him the knowledge to make that tool and he will never be without one !
I enjoy reading the articals and threads on this site even repeated ones as there are often diferent points that come up .
It becomes a dark day when Bushcraftuk goes down .
So to Tony , this site and the people who frequent it :You_Rock_
Pumbaa
I found myself in a rather deep hole not to long ago , and it was with thanks to the great characters on this site that i got out of it . I was trying to dig myself out with my bare hands . The people on this site didnt offer a piece of rope to climb out , nor did they offer a spade to dig myself out . What they did was give me the knowledge and support to make a spade or a rope myself !
Give a man a tool and he will break it , give him the knowledge to make that tool and he will never be without one !
I enjoy reading the articals and threads on this site even repeated ones as there are often diferent points that come up .
It becomes a dark day when Bushcraftuk goes down .
So to Tony , this site and the people who frequent it :You_Rock_
Pumbaa
I started reading this thread over 24hrs ago and its not until now that I feel I can respond.
I have put a lot of thought and I will try to be as articulate as possible.
Firstly, well done to Adam for asking the question. I know I have asked myself the question and if you are honest with yourselves you have.
Secondly, my thanks to Tony for re-starting this thread, the responce Adam got in the early stages was undeserved.
BCUK is a public forum and we all must remember that, what has occurred in the last 24hrs + has done it a dis-service. Every member whether paid or not has an obligation to remember that.
So to answer the question what do I dislike:
Why should one training school / retail outlet be allowed to potentially flaunt the rules / regs and others are not ?
The repetiveness of questions and I have only been a member for five or so months.
The abruptness of some members and moderators in their response to questions - this I must admit really upsets me the most, especially when that member is one of long standing or even a moderator, I expect a lot better.
Regards
I have put a lot of thought and I will try to be as articulate as possible.
Firstly, well done to Adam for asking the question. I know I have asked myself the question and if you are honest with yourselves you have.
Secondly, my thanks to Tony for re-starting this thread, the responce Adam got in the early stages was undeserved.
BCUK is a public forum and we all must remember that, what has occurred in the last 24hrs + has done it a dis-service. Every member whether paid or not has an obligation to remember that.
So to answer the question what do I dislike:
Why should one training school / retail outlet be allowed to potentially flaunt the rules / regs and others are not ?
The repetiveness of questions and I have only been a member for five or so months.
The abruptness of some members and moderators in their response to questions - this I must admit really upsets me the most, especially when that member is one of long standing or even a moderator, I expect a lot better.
Regards
Good one AdamScott, I like when people step up to the plate, as they say.
Saying something is wrong is to start at the wrong end. What can be better is a better end to start in.
Kit - Everybody talks about kit and everyone buys it. Why not make it possible for people to make small reviews and put it all in a database, makes it a lot simpler to find the kit you are looking for and see if it´s any good.
Same posts - If there is 10 posts asking how to do something, is it not better to make a "how to" on that then?
There is people who wants that knowledge.
Moderating - We are all grown up people that can solve problems between us as grown ups. Don´t moderate so hard, there are still forums wit thousands of people that don´t have any moderators. Moderators are supposed to make everything flow on a forum, move posts to their right place when newbies post in the wrong section, and when the same question comes for the 100 time clos the thread and show people to the old thread with the answer.
Companies - Dont shut us out, since I started my company I hardly post anymore. My company is my life and my second job. It´s hard to make post without mentioning from time to time. I would like to see more companies here and I know there are people that used to be here that run companies that has disappeared.
Members- Without members there will be no posts and no forum. Members are the power of a community, if the mebers want to change something, change it! All members should ahve the right of free speach, we have it in our normal life and people have fought for it long before we came along. Don´t silence the members (the peoples voice). Feedback is a good thing, both good and bad, that whats brings things forward and not backwards. I personally love feedback both to give and to take and from that I know what I will need to change.
That was just a few points and I know there is more of you out there that has things to say and now it´s the time to do it!!!
Saying something is wrong is to start at the wrong end. What can be better is a better end to start in.
Kit - Everybody talks about kit and everyone buys it. Why not make it possible for people to make small reviews and put it all in a database, makes it a lot simpler to find the kit you are looking for and see if it´s any good.
Same posts - If there is 10 posts asking how to do something, is it not better to make a "how to" on that then?
There is people who wants that knowledge.
Moderating - We are all grown up people that can solve problems between us as grown ups. Don´t moderate so hard, there are still forums wit thousands of people that don´t have any moderators. Moderators are supposed to make everything flow on a forum, move posts to their right place when newbies post in the wrong section, and when the same question comes for the 100 time clos the thread and show people to the old thread with the answer.
Companies - Dont shut us out, since I started my company I hardly post anymore. My company is my life and my second job. It´s hard to make post without mentioning from time to time. I would like to see more companies here and I know there are people that used to be here that run companies that has disappeared.
Members- Without members there will be no posts and no forum. Members are the power of a community, if the mebers want to change something, change it! All members should ahve the right of free speach, we have it in our normal life and people have fought for it long before we came along. Don´t silence the members (the peoples voice). Feedback is a good thing, both good and bad, that whats brings things forward and not backwards. I personally love feedback both to give and to take and from that I know what I will need to change.
That was just a few points and I know there is more of you out there that has things to say and now it´s the time to do it!!!
Viking said:
Those forums that dont have moderators usually come with a XXX rating and rarely have any meaningful content. If you like, I'll send you a link to some for your evaluation. Yea, we are all adults, but it's adults that make war with each other. Bad behaviour is not confined to children. What moderators are supposed to do (among other things), is draw the line in the sand and then patrol that line. If everyone stays on the right side of the line, they will NEVER get moderated. If someone crosses the line, they will (and should) get moderated. Once this is understood and people know where the line is, you get a fairly harmoneous forum (which this is). Of course if you want confusion, chaos, argument, flamewars and anger then ditch the moderators, but please dont think any community of 1000's of individuals will self police - that aint ever going to happen.
Again, if you want freedom of speach, I can post dozens of links to forums that are unmoderated and allow free speach. Just make sure there are no children in the room when you look at them.
With regard to members changing things, I once saw (on another forum) a 20 page thread, degenerate into deeply personal argument and flame wars, which (eventually) got locked down. The topic was "what colour shall we pick for the new forum?".
If this forum has any harmony about it at all, it's not because it's populated with enlightened people, ...it's because freedom of speach is not allowed and because it's moderated effectively.
Members will either see that and understand the truth of it or they wont.
Well I quite like it here! I'm fairly new, coming back to Bushcraft after doing a course in the summer.
To address some of the specific points made (can't remember by whom sorry):
I moderate on another forum, and IMO forums need moderators - the way Tony dealt with this thread was a fine example of moderation in action, and how un-moderated threads can go awry.
Kit - being fairly new, I've bought quite a few bits and bobs and I've made great use of the search facility to find information and peoples opinions. Being a mod on another forum, I know how often the same things get asked again and again and maybe an FAQs would help. I wouldn't like to see the kit chatter go - I know there are specific fora for blades, torches etc, but if I only want a basic overview they're not the easiest of places to find the information I want and I've not heard of the sleeping bag forums, rucsack forums etc. Please don't point them out, if you have!
As mentioned above, the search facility is one of the most useful tools in a forum, but overlooked by many, particularly those new. IMO if someone asks a question that's already been asked it's up to anyone to politely respond with a link to the previous thread, not just a moderator. That way any new information is added to the old and it's all in one place. Well in an ideal world anyway!
What else? I don't read anything I don't want to. Sounds obvious, but it seems to be a problem. I always look at the new posts view too. Don't know why, it's what I've always done and I only do it on this forum. I need to have more of a think about the reasons for that...
My only negative point was given to me by another user. Thread deletion. He had a couple of threads deleted, one I'd contributed in, and they just went. No explaination. That's the way he told it. I certainly didn't see a reason given or any rule pointed too, but thought it would have been usefull.
So. My twopenn'orth.
I'm fairly new, coming back to Bushcraft after doing a course in the summer.To address some of the specific points made (can't remember by whom sorry):
I moderate on another forum, and IMO forums need moderators - the way Tony dealt with this thread was a fine example of moderation in action, and how un-moderated threads can go awry.
Kit - being fairly new, I've bought quite a few bits and bobs and I've made great use of the search facility to find information and peoples opinions. Being a mod on another forum, I know how often the same things get asked again and again and maybe an FAQs would help. I wouldn't like to see the kit chatter go - I know there are specific fora for blades, torches etc, but if I only want a basic overview they're not the easiest of places to find the information I want and I've not heard of the sleeping bag forums, rucsack forums etc. Please don't point them out, if you have!
As mentioned above, the search facility is one of the most useful tools in a forum, but overlooked by many, particularly those new. IMO if someone asks a question that's already been asked it's up to anyone to politely respond with a link to the previous thread, not just a moderator. That way any new information is added to the old and it's all in one place. Well in an ideal world anyway!
What else? I don't read anything I don't want to. Sounds obvious, but it seems to be a problem. I always look at the new posts view too. Don't know why, it's what I've always done and I only do it on this forum. I need to have more of a think about the reasons for that...
My only negative point was given to me by another user. Thread deletion. He had a couple of threads deleted, one I'd contributed in, and they just went. No explaination. That's the way he told it. I certainly didn't see a reason given or any rule pointed too, but thought it would have been usefull.
So. My twopenn'orth.
Martyn said:
I can give you several that works just fine and they are growing, some discussions can be wild, like all discussions can be. But it moves forward...
But I have said my point wich I thought this thread was about, so I will lieave it at that.
If you bought a new Nannock sleeping bag and the stitching was all undone , you would be miffed to see it falling apart to say the least .
Thats what the Mods do , they are the stitching that hold this place together !
There are only a few forums that i feel are worth repeatedly watching . Two of those are BCUK and BB . Why are they worth watching ? The fact that the content interests me is a big part of it , but the efficency of the moderating is what makes a good site better .
Dont be so hard on the mods , they do an excellent job !
Pumbaa
Thats what the Mods do , they are the stitching that hold this place together !
There are only a few forums that i feel are worth repeatedly watching . Two of those are BCUK and BB . Why are they worth watching ? The fact that the content interests me is a big part of it , but the efficency of the moderating is what makes a good site better .
Dont be so hard on the mods , they do an excellent job !
Pumbaa
Ok, now we are starting to get some good constructive comments.
There still seems to be more questions than answers, but at least they are the right questions
One thing that has cropped up several times is repeat questions, so I'd just like to put in my take on this.
Yes sometimes the same thread being raised over and over again is tedious for those who have been around a while, but there are a lot of new members who won't know it's been asked before. On a lot of other forums the stock response is often "hey stupid, use the search button" and this really annoys me. Not only is it unwelcoming it's unnecessary, most people WILL already have done LOTS of searching, google, jeeves etc - that's how they found the site - and lets face it its no harder to say "there are some answers here you might find useful, or you could try searching for whatever, as this has cropped up before". Comes across better I think
The other thing that has been mentioned is about the mods bieing heavy handed sometimes. Well, I think that it's sometimes necessary, but I would like to see a full explanation when this happens, just to let people know. For example if an entire thread is removed, leave a placeholder post, with the reason it was removed clearly stated, that way we can all learn from it.
Platypus
PS should this thread now be moved to the site suggestions section?
There still seems to be more questions than answers, but at least they are the right questions
One thing that has cropped up several times is repeat questions, so I'd just like to put in my take on this.
Yes sometimes the same thread being raised over and over again is tedious for those who have been around a while, but there are a lot of new members who won't know it's been asked before. On a lot of other forums the stock response is often "hey stupid, use the search button" and this really annoys me. Not only is it unwelcoming it's unnecessary, most people WILL already have done LOTS of searching, google, jeeves etc - that's how they found the site - and lets face it its no harder to say "there are some answers here you might find useful, or you could try searching for whatever, as this has cropped up before". Comes across better I think
The other thing that has been mentioned is about the mods bieing heavy handed sometimes. Well, I think that it's sometimes necessary, but I would like to see a full explanation when this happens, just to let people know. For example if an entire thread is removed, leave a placeholder post, with the reason it was removed clearly stated, that way we can all learn from it.
Platypus
PS should this thread now be moved to the site suggestions section?
Martyn said:
I am fine with rules, I am fine with moderators, I believe too that a forum without strong moderation will turn into chaos.
What I am allergic against is when I see that rules apply very very hard on some people while it looks like that some people get away with quite a bit sometimes.
As long as its fair its ok with me.
cheers
Abbe
Just picking up on a few things Phil...
I remember Gary was banned because he had a second membership to promote his business and slag off competitors... but as I said, he was banned. Not wanting to bring that all up again because there was a deal of dissension about it, specifically about the fact that a member who was so valuable to the site was banned... but doesn't that show that the rules are 100% fair and that even in a case like that they are upheld by the moderators and admin (as they should be)?
If we wanted an encyclopaedia, we would write one
Have I missed something? Not seen this anywhere, though it might be just me!Phil562 said:
I remember Gary was banned because he had a second membership to promote his business and slag off competitors... but as I said, he was banned. Not wanting to bring that all up again because there was a deal of dissension about it, specifically about the fact that a member who was so valuable to the site was banned... but doesn't that show that the rules are 100% fair and that even in a case like that they are upheld by the moderators and admin (as they should be)?
This has been discussed before - the trouble with setting up a definitive knowledge base with the number one answer in it is that we'd then have no forum. Asking these questions does elicit different responses from people, and there never seems to be only one way to do something. It promotes discussion and I'm sure we often all find out things we didn't know before.
If we wanted an encyclopaedia, we would write one
Abbe Osram said:
There is a very simple solution to this problem and it comes in the form of that little button at the top of every post which shows a caution sign with an exclamation mark in it.
As a moderator reading every single line of every single post on this form and checking them all is a difficult job which take a lot of time (our free time as we are all volunteers) and stuff does slip though the net.
however there is something you can do to assist us, if you find a post which you think should have been dealt with you can simply click on that button and let us know, when you hit that button an e-mail is automatically sent to every single admin and moderator to draw there attention to it.
That button gives every member the ability to assist in the smooth running of this site, the strange thing is it almost never gets used; I can count how many times it has been used over the last year with the fingers on one hand.
in addition to this keep in mind that when the moderators are doing their job properly you never see it, you dont see the piles of posts made by companies advertising viagra and strange people who want to talk about the best way to garrotte a sentry???
thats because all this is quietly removed and tided away without you ever being aware that it happened.
Ok, some comments from me.
Take this
Compared to this
The first one says dont allow people to talk so much about kit, Im sick of kit talk. The next one says if members want to change something change it, that members have the right to post about kit if they feel they want to, which of you should I agree with? You cant have it both ways.
I explained in the second post how I also feel the site has changed and because of that there are a few people that dont post on here any more, thats their choice. I used to love knowing everyone but I except that its an impossibility now, the site changes and not always in ways were comfortable with, sometimes members stick at it anyway and sometimes they dont, I have.
Why should I not allow people to talk about kit, its an important part of the site, if any of you dont like to talk about kit ro read about kit then stay out of the forums that address kit, to me thats the most simple answer. If you dont like kit talk, stay away from it, theres no way that Im changing the site because a few people cant do that for themselves.
This statement is wrong
Some people are very much interested in using flint flakes instead of a knife, thats a personal decision, its not what most people do.
That seems to be the key to all this, there are some people that like things one way and others that like it another, its been said on here and the forum as a whole many times that theres no way to please everyone and I would add that theres no way especially with bushcraft being such a huge subject with so many different facets that people focus on. For some just getting out and learning the names of trees is bushcraft, then theyll add some fungi into the mix, then theyll camp out while theyre learning and then theyll build a shelter the next time and because theyre not that confident theyll want to use a saw to get some of the bits just right for the shelter etc etc its progressive for everyone and everyone is at a different level and has different preferences.
Tools of whatever sort are part of bushcraft.
This has been my thinking for a while, which is why I set up the articles and other sections of the site. There are more articles in the pipeline and over time the site will become more balanced. There is already a great deal of information in the other sections of the site, the forum is not Bushcraft UK, it is a part of a website contributing to the whole.
The other sections of the site are expanding and will continue to do so, I am writing up some submission guideline for anyone that wants to submit articles and the like. Remember though that sections like the articles section is not the forum, you cant just put up an article that youve put together, it will be submitted and considered.
The FAQ is on the huge list of things to do.
If the Meetups become unmanageable Ill consider creating new forums, at the moment though its quite easy to see whats going on. If people want to see if theres something in their part of the country its possible to search only in the meet ups forum.
I get a lot of requests to create new forums and its not going to happen. A new forum gets created when theres a real need, If I created all the forums that people request wed have a forum structure that was three feet long and people would get very upset about that. The old forum was longer and people used to complain about it.
I agree with this and its a balance again. Doc, youve also highlighted whats fantastic about the forum
There are inaccuracies and its inevitable, were dealing with human beings. I want you all to know though that we remove a lot of inaccurate posts though, many of which people dont even realise get posted, if I ran the site as some want and allow people to post what they want there would be a huge amount more of inaccurate, or even downright dangerous posts and threads.
Doc, youve hit it on the head when you said .
1. Delete threads older than a specified date That would be a horrendous thing to do as some very valuable information would be lost indiscriminately. There would also be a huge amount of members offended that the time they put into writing a post was just destroyed.
2. Every thread to be read and judged worthy of staying or not, every post would have to be looked at so as not to loose something valuable. If posts are removed from threads they become disjointed and the threads are much harder to understand, also, again people would be offended
3. We move on and try our best to make sure that what we post is good quality, accurate and relevant to the site. In doing so there would be no need to spring clean. Or would people prefer that I write a load of rules dictating exactly what people can write and ban anyone that writes something that someone doesnt like (there would be a lot of banned people on the site!)
Its all about balance.
Spot on Stuart
This one I find interesting. For one no one is allowed to flaunt the rules, youve implying that I am biased on the site and that I allow some schools and organisations to do what others are not. Youll need to be more specific so I can address this. As far as Im aware Ive never received a PM, email or a flag about a post made by a school or retail outlet from you pointing out that theyve posted something not in accordance with the rules.
When I or the mods do receive such we look into them.
Some commercial ventures have more presence on here because they participate and they benefit the members and the site, they put into it and dont just take from it, they get more exposure because of this, as long as they act within the rules theyre all welcome.
People are human and they have good and bad days, on the other hand some people get offended a lot easier than others. Theres nearly 3000 members on here, all different people.
The people with the hardest Job on here are the mods, they work in the background making sure that things on the site work well and that the majority of people are happy.
You state that you expect a lot better thats a two way street. We as a team remove slanderous statements, foul language, dangerous posts, inappropriate subjects martial, pornographic pictures, stop arguments, give advice and direction answer PMs and Emails (This week I have received over a hundred PMs) many of which are people complaining about something or other. To be honest I expect a lot better from members of the site. If there wasnt so many time consuming things that the mods and myself had to sort out there would be more time to build the site.
Some people on here think that the members should be able to post what they want. Sorry but its my website and Ill not allow some of the filth and rubbish to stay on here.
This is another two way street, many members like the idea of them being able to stand up and say what they want to as bluntly as they want to, yet if anyone with authority on Bushcraft UK does it people get offended. If a mod says he doesnt like something people start telling him or her theyve got no right to speak. What absolute rubbish.
I dont agree with this at all. Most of the members on here may be adults, but problems usually escalate into slagging matches, offended members and lots of PMs and emails to us asking, if not demanding that we do something about it.
The role of moderators is to run the forum how the owner/admin asks them to. Theres not one chance that Id let the grown up people post pornography, argue, make slanderous statements about each other, post hugely inaccurate comments etc etc on my forum.
This one I dont get at all, no company has been shut out of BCUK, there are schools that post on here and theres other companies that do as well. I have never stopped such posting on here, I have stopped them blatantly advertising on here and Ill continue to do so while its appropriate.
All companies that stick by the rules are more than welcome to come on here and participate, theres schools on here that post content that indirectly benefits their company, they become a part of the community, they earn respect and they benefit from it, they dont have a problem watching what they say, their focus is on sharing info and contributing to the community.
Those companies that have disappeared are usually because they broke the rules or they didnt think the investment of time in the forum was profitable enough for them. Thats their choice. I have many companies that contact me and ask if they can post this or that and they take my yes and no answers on the chin and get on with it. What it does do though is help build a relationship between us, I dont feel that theyre just in it to take advantage of a business opportunity and it allows them to see that they are welcome here.
I agree that there would be no posts without members and that they move the forum forward, theyre also the ones that people are complaining about, theyre the ones that create posts that people dont like, talk about kit etc Some of you are saying that we should stop the members talking about things they dont like and others want free speech
As for all members have the right to free speech not on here they dont, Ive stated many reasons above why it doesnt work. I agree that feedback is a good thing, thats another one of those two way streets though; the members have to take on board feedback just as I do.
Ok, Ive gone on and on, Ive spent three hours reading and writing, thats time that was going to be spent with my kids this morning.
The bottom line is that its my forum, people are invited to come on here and be part of a community. This is not a public forum, it is a private forum, I own it, I run it, I make the rules and I do dictate how it runs.
The Mods have been asked by me to fulfil a hard and thankless role and they do a fantastic job of doing it, they put up with some incredible grief because they do what I ask them to do, they do a fantastic job and the forum wouldnt be the excellent place it is without them.
Some of the points raised are valid, Im grateful for the feedback. Many of the difficulties that people face is down to how they use the forum. The site is never going to be perfect, its never going to be right for everyone. I could shut it down, work on it and then put it back up when Ive accomplished what people want from it, but then Id have to take it down again to do the other changes that people just thought of, or put some things back because they dont like them the new way .Its not going to happen.
As members of the site you can vote with your feet, if you dont like it then find a site that accommodates all the little software hacks that youre after and allows total free speech, has no talk about kit, allows advertising all over the place and has no mods to upset people when theyre doing their job.
Bushcraft UK does not belong to the members, they do not pay the bills (although some do contribute) they do not do the huge amount of work involved in keeping it going and developing it, they do not deal with the issues both legal and moral that crop up on a regular basis. They do not sacrifice time with family and time that should be spent providing for that family.
What the members do is come on to a free forum and website, find a place that for the most part allows them to be part of a community, orientated around a subject that they have in common. They have it all handed to them on a plate thats provided by the hard work of others and those others dont complain about the little things that they find irritating or annoying, they just get on with providing the means for you all to get together.
Remember, you are part of something very special, its a great community with fantastic members, many of which go above and beyond. Running the site is a balancing act and I make no apologies for how its run. I had the vision for it and I created it I dictate how its run, youre guests, valued as friends, but guests. Feel free to leave if I or the way the site is run offends you.
Take this
Fire Starter said:I think, as I have said before there is too much talk about Kit. comparing kit, comparing knives, bigger knives, axes, hammocks, Gortex sleeping bags, smaller knives, knives with teeth, my choppers bigger than your chopper nonsense. I have even seen people on here using the site as a market place trying to SELL kit that was imported for the job. Surely thats not what was intended when the site was first set out.
My suggestion for making the site better would be to rename it Bush Kit UK to appeal to the wider audience
Compared to this
Viking said:
The first one says dont allow people to talk so much about kit, Im sick of kit talk. The next one says if members want to change something change it, that members have the right to post about kit if they feel they want to, which of you should I agree with? You cant have it both ways.
I explained in the second post how I also feel the site has changed and because of that there are a few people that dont post on here any more, thats their choice. I used to love knowing everyone but I except that its an impossibility now, the site changes and not always in ways were comfortable with, sometimes members stick at it anyway and sometimes they dont, I have.
Why should I not allow people to talk about kit, its an important part of the site, if any of you dont like to talk about kit ro read about kit then stay out of the forums that address kit, to me thats the most simple answer. If you dont like kit talk, stay away from it, theres no way that Im changing the site because a few people cant do that for themselves.
This statement is wrong
Although kit is very popular it is very much in balance with the other forums that I have on here. Theres about 10 forums for bushcraft, its skills, general knowledge, specific knowledge etc and theres 2 for kit, unless you want to include transport in that. So read the 10 forums that interest you and not the 3 that dont.Fire Starter said:
Some people are very much interested in using flint flakes instead of a knife, thats a personal decision, its not what most people do.
That seems to be the key to all this, there are some people that like things one way and others that like it another, its been said on here and the forum as a whole many times that theres no way to please everyone and I would add that theres no way especially with bushcraft being such a huge subject with so many different facets that people focus on. For some just getting out and learning the names of trees is bushcraft, then theyll add some fungi into the mix, then theyll camp out while theyre learning and then theyll build a shelter the next time and because theyre not that confident theyll want to use a saw to get some of the bits just right for the shelter etc etc its progressive for everyone and everyone is at a different level and has different preferences.
Tools of whatever sort are part of bushcraft.
Platypus said:For me there seems to be too much seperation between the main site and the Forum, I spend much more time here than I do there. Mostly this is because the forum is much more dynamic, but the recent competition sent me scurrying back "over there" to find the answers. and I must admit I spent an enjoyable afternoon looking at that stuff (please don't tell the boss
This has been my thinking for a while, which is why I set up the articles and other sections of the site. There are more articles in the pipeline and over time the site will become more balanced. There is already a great deal of information in the other sections of the site, the forum is not Bushcraft UK, it is a part of a website contributing to the whole.
The other sections of the site are expanding and will continue to do so, I am writing up some submission guideline for anyone that wants to submit articles and the like. Remember though that sections like the articles section is not the forum, you cant just put up an article that youve put together, it will be submitted and considered.
The FAQ is on the huge list of things to do.
If the Meetups become unmanageable Ill consider creating new forums, at the moment though its quite easy to see whats going on. If people want to see if theres something in their part of the country its possible to search only in the meet ups forum.
I get a lot of requests to create new forums and its not going to happen. A new forum gets created when theres a real need, If I created all the forums that people request wed have a forum structure that was three feet long and people would get very upset about that. The old forum was longer and people used to complain about it.
Doc said:
I agree with this and its a balance again. Doc, youve also highlighted whats fantastic about the forum
Its often the case that no matter how politely a Mod or Admin correct someone its seen as poking their nose in and being heavy handed, its far easier to let the members, where possible, to help each other. I know that theres members that see something they dont agree with and theyre experts in their fields and they throw up their arms and think the poster is an idiot and theyre not going to go on the forum again because the information was inaccurate, they could have politely corrected the poster (as above) and the site would have been all the richer for it and the benefit to the other members could be very long reaching.
There are inaccuracies and its inevitable, were dealing with human beings. I want you all to know though that we remove a lot of inaccurate posts though, many of which people dont even realise get posted, if I ran the site as some want and allow people to post what they want there would be a huge amount more of inaccurate, or even downright dangerous posts and threads.
Doc, youve hit it on the head when you said .
Thats a hard one, theres three options here.Adamscott2 said:
1. Delete threads older than a specified date That would be a horrendous thing to do as some very valuable information would be lost indiscriminately. There would also be a huge amount of members offended that the time they put into writing a post was just destroyed.
2. Every thread to be read and judged worthy of staying or not, every post would have to be looked at so as not to loose something valuable. If posts are removed from threads they become disjointed and the threads are much harder to understand, also, again people would be offended
3. We move on and try our best to make sure that what we post is good quality, accurate and relevant to the site. In doing so there would be no need to spring clean. Or would people prefer that I write a load of rules dictating exactly what people can write and ban anyone that writes something that someone doesnt like (there would be a lot of banned people on the site!)
Its all about balance.
stuart f said:Hi Adam, i think you've hit the nail on the head,the way i see it, it is that its taking longer to get the info to learn new things because you have to do more leg work to find it compared to the early days of this site. I know how you feel as i to have been coming to this site for a long while and it has changed,but i also realise that there are always novices strarting from scratch who need to ask questions. I was once a novice myself
We now live in a society where everyone wants everything yesterday and in double quick time.
My point you may ask, well its like this,alot students dropped the art because they did'nt want to do the leg work,the many hours doing the rubbish stuff as they saw it to get to the goal.
Karate learned me patience,so as i say i don't mind going through the myriad of posts to get to my goal, as i to was a begginer like all who are new to bushcraft.
Spot on Stuart
Phil562 said:
This one I find interesting. For one no one is allowed to flaunt the rules, youve implying that I am biased on the site and that I allow some schools and organisations to do what others are not. Youll need to be more specific so I can address this. As far as Im aware Ive never received a PM, email or a flag about a post made by a school or retail outlet from you pointing out that theyve posted something not in accordance with the rules.
When I or the mods do receive such we look into them.
Some commercial ventures have more presence on here because they participate and they benefit the members and the site, they put into it and dont just take from it, they get more exposure because of this, as long as they act within the rules theyre all welcome.
People are human and they have good and bad days, on the other hand some people get offended a lot easier than others. Theres nearly 3000 members on here, all different people.
The people with the hardest Job on here are the mods, they work in the background making sure that things on the site work well and that the majority of people are happy.
You state that you expect a lot better thats a two way street. We as a team remove slanderous statements, foul language, dangerous posts, inappropriate subjects martial, pornographic pictures, stop arguments, give advice and direction answer PMs and Emails (This week I have received over a hundred PMs) many of which are people complaining about something or other. To be honest I expect a lot better from members of the site. If there wasnt so many time consuming things that the mods and myself had to sort out there would be more time to build the site.
Some people on here think that the members should be able to post what they want. Sorry but its my website and Ill not allow some of the filth and rubbish to stay on here.
Viking said:
This is another two way street, many members like the idea of them being able to stand up and say what they want to as bluntly as they want to, yet if anyone with authority on Bushcraft UK does it people get offended. If a mod says he doesnt like something people start telling him or her theyve got no right to speak. What absolute rubbish.
I dont agree with this at all. Most of the members on here may be adults, but problems usually escalate into slagging matches, offended members and lots of PMs and emails to us asking, if not demanding that we do something about it.
The role of moderators is to run the forum how the owner/admin asks them to. Theres not one chance that Id let the grown up people post pornography, argue, make slanderous statements about each other, post hugely inaccurate comments etc etc on my forum.
This one I dont get at all, no company has been shut out of BCUK, there are schools that post on here and theres other companies that do as well. I have never stopped such posting on here, I have stopped them blatantly advertising on here and Ill continue to do so while its appropriate.
All companies that stick by the rules are more than welcome to come on here and participate, theres schools on here that post content that indirectly benefits their company, they become a part of the community, they earn respect and they benefit from it, they dont have a problem watching what they say, their focus is on sharing info and contributing to the community.
Those companies that have disappeared are usually because they broke the rules or they didnt think the investment of time in the forum was profitable enough for them. Thats their choice. I have many companies that contact me and ask if they can post this or that and they take my yes and no answers on the chin and get on with it. What it does do though is help build a relationship between us, I dont feel that theyre just in it to take advantage of a business opportunity and it allows them to see that they are welcome here.
I agree that there would be no posts without members and that they move the forum forward, theyre also the ones that people are complaining about, theyre the ones that create posts that people dont like, talk about kit etc Some of you are saying that we should stop the members talking about things they dont like and others want free speech
As for all members have the right to free speech not on here they dont, Ive stated many reasons above why it doesnt work. I agree that feedback is a good thing, thats another one of those two way streets though; the members have to take on board feedback just as I do.
Ok, Ive gone on and on, Ive spent three hours reading and writing, thats time that was going to be spent with my kids this morning.
The bottom line is that its my forum, people are invited to come on here and be part of a community. This is not a public forum, it is a private forum, I own it, I run it, I make the rules and I do dictate how it runs.
The Mods have been asked by me to fulfil a hard and thankless role and they do a fantastic job of doing it, they put up with some incredible grief because they do what I ask them to do, they do a fantastic job and the forum wouldnt be the excellent place it is without them.
Some of the points raised are valid, Im grateful for the feedback. Many of the difficulties that people face is down to how they use the forum. The site is never going to be perfect, its never going to be right for everyone. I could shut it down, work on it and then put it back up when Ive accomplished what people want from it, but then Id have to take it down again to do the other changes that people just thought of, or put some things back because they dont like them the new way .Its not going to happen.
As members of the site you can vote with your feet, if you dont like it then find a site that accommodates all the little software hacks that youre after and allows total free speech, has no talk about kit, allows advertising all over the place and has no mods to upset people when theyre doing their job.
Bushcraft UK does not belong to the members, they do not pay the bills (although some do contribute) they do not do the huge amount of work involved in keeping it going and developing it, they do not deal with the issues both legal and moral that crop up on a regular basis. They do not sacrifice time with family and time that should be spent providing for that family.
What the members do is come on to a free forum and website, find a place that for the most part allows them to be part of a community, orientated around a subject that they have in common. They have it all handed to them on a plate thats provided by the hard work of others and those others dont complain about the little things that they find irritating or annoying, they just get on with providing the means for you all to get together.
Remember, you are part of something very special, its a great community with fantastic members, many of which go above and beyond. Running the site is a balancing act and I make no apologies for how its run. I had the vision for it and I created it I dictate how its run, youre guests, valued as friends, but guests. Feel free to leave if I or the way the site is run offends you.
Great response Tony,
Sorry to see that all the hard work and effort put in by you and the mods IS such hard work, I guess to a certain extent that's the nature of the beast. I hope that you're not starting to feel that this thing you have created is turning into a monster.
I actually don't think there is much wrong with BcUk, sure there are things I would do differently if it were my site, but doesn't mean I would be right, and of course it's not my site so my views are just suggestions for your consideration.
Anyway, I hope you and your family have a very Merry Christmas and please don't get too upset about us lot, we are after all "mostly harmless"
Regards
Platypus
PS. If you ever need more mods, I'd be willing to help.
Sorry to see that all the hard work and effort put in by you and the mods IS such hard work, I guess to a certain extent that's the nature of the beast. I hope that you're not starting to feel that this thing you have created is turning into a monster.
I actually don't think there is much wrong with BcUk, sure there are things I would do differently if it were my site, but doesn't mean I would be right, and of course it's not my site so my views are just suggestions for your consideration.
Anyway, I hope you and your family have a very Merry Christmas and please don't get too upset about us lot, we are after all "mostly harmless"
Regards
Platypus
PS. If you ever need more mods, I'd be willing to help.
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