Just wondering if you guys prefer working green wood or seasoned wood and if you season how do you season it?
P
P
Whats the best way to season wood before working it?
- Thread starter pibbleb
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Good question. Do you want to carve it or use conventional woodworking tools? If you want to carve it, it is best to use the wood green. I have carved walking staffs (not much carving involved, but hey!) and spoons so far, and have always used green wood. I used some seasoned dead wood from a sweet chestnut to start making the sheath for my green river knife, and it is tough to work with without proper wood working tools. I have used a plane and rasp files on it, and it is slow going, and sawing the wood (couldn't split it as it was twisted growth) was very difficult along the grain. Would be made easier with a bandsaw I suppose!
As for seasoning wood, you can cut wood, such as staves and staffs, and put them out of the way for a year in a shed or garage, so long as it isn't too damp. If you want to cheat, stick the wood on top of the radiator for a few weeks, but it can lead to craking and/or warping. If you are making staffs though, you can steam and bend the kinks out to a certain degree, and the bends give a bit of character anyway!
As for seasoning wood, you can cut wood, such as staves and staffs, and put them out of the way for a year in a shed or garage, so long as it isn't too damp. If you want to cheat, stick the wood on top of the radiator for a few weeks, but it can lead to craking and/or warping. If you are making staffs though, you can steam and bend the kinks out to a certain degree, and the bends give a bit of character anyway!
I read an article once about drying wood, it said that no matter how long you season it for it will never be dry, as long as there is moisture in the air around it it will absorb it. There are ways of properly seasoning wood like kiln drying it. Green wood is really good for working as it is easy to carve, you just have to not let it dry too quickly or it will crack. Dry wood can be difficult to work, but not all dry wood, like Pine for example, but Oak or Hawthorn or even walnut can be very difficult without the proper, sharp tools. Lathe workers will have to keep sharpening tools throughout some projects deppending on what wood they are using.
Simon.
Simon.
When I've been carving I've often worried/ wondered at how long things will last and whether the use of seasoned wood would prolong whats being made.
I've worked some seasoned birch and I really liked the texture of the wood, but it's certainly much easier to work green wood for sure.
I tried making a Kaksa, is that the right spelling? out of oak which had been seasoned, for no other reason than I didn't have time to do anything with it when I found it freshly cut.
Let's just say it's now a useful doorstop as it was next to impossible to work with my little patio kit!
Do you guys season stuff before you treat it with oils or varnish?
Pib
I've worked some seasoned birch and I really liked the texture of the wood, but it's certainly much easier to work green wood for sure.
I tried making a Kaksa, is that the right spelling? out of oak which had been seasoned, for no other reason than I didn't have time to do anything with it when I found it freshly cut.
Let's just say it's now a useful doorstop as it was next to impossible to work with my little patio kit!
Do you guys season stuff before you treat it with oils or varnish?
Pib
If you want to carry on with your Kuksa, try burning an ember on the top and then scrape away the charred wood and repeat. It will take a bit longer, but may be easier! You could use rasp files to shape the outside.
If you want to dry wood the time tested traditional and best way is air drying. Kiln drying can work but IMHO the stock is sometimes more brittle as a result (working with hand tools anyway)
Leave the sawn or cleft piece's under cover away from rain, but with plenty airflow around and underneath (open sided tempory shed type thing) Dont allow weeds to grow around or under the stack, shade the stack from direct sunshine. Support pieces fully along there length, use small stickers (thin wood laths) to seperate sawn plank's keeping the stickers one above the other in a vertical line so the board's dont sag Be patient rule of thumb=1 year drying time per inch of board thickness. The gap creatyed by the sticker's allows air in between the planks so you get even drying and less chance of mould etc
Your right wood is hygroscoppic (resopond's to changes in humidity level's) Just something we have to accept. The art of joinery and carpentery is to build wooden things that still function despite this tendency for wood to alternately swell and shrink. Some people rough shape while the wood is green then finish when its dry (eg when I do chair parts I rough them out with my axe and drawknife, then leave them a year or more to air dry, finish off drying indoors for 10 or 14 days then do final precise cutting of round tennons and assemble immaedialey. Same with bowls. Some people rough turn them with inch thick walls then let them dry in a slow controlled way in bag's of damp sawdust and so forth to minimise warping and cracking, then do shaping cuts and finish, again when dry.
Some methods of woodworking use the wood green from the start (eg oak frames for buildings, hazel hurdles, chestnut or oak gates, etc). Mostly utilising simple mortice and tennon's and peg's to hold it all together. Wood shrinks a lot across its width, hardly any at all along its length, again you have to take that into consideration when making wood stuff. Someone built a timber frame house just up the road. It has a small tying joint on the porch with jowl posts and tying beam. The joint arrangement and executuion has failed already after less than 2 year's (long vertical crack down the jowl post) because the framer didnt allow for the shrinkage in the green oak across its width (made his mortice in the tying beam too tight, probably done on a machine
Theres another house next door none of there jowl posts have failed, they were done by hand 500 years ago by men who had a close workng understanding of the physical propeerties of timber (specifically green oak)
I would say get some wood and try it out, try splitting, try sawing or get someone to saw it for you (a yard wont, a hidden nail will cost them £££'s in lost time and they wont take the risk). Set some aside and observe how it changes, hardness, colour etc. Another test is to weigh a fresh cut piece and note the weight. As it dries this will reduce, when it evens out at a more or less steady amount your about there.
Hope this hepls cheers Jonathan
Leave the sawn or cleft piece's under cover away from rain, but with plenty airflow around and underneath (open sided tempory shed type thing) Dont allow weeds to grow around or under the stack, shade the stack from direct sunshine. Support pieces fully along there length, use small stickers (thin wood laths) to seperate sawn plank's keeping the stickers one above the other in a vertical line so the board's dont sag Be patient rule of thumb=1 year drying time per inch of board thickness. The gap creatyed by the sticker's allows air in between the planks so you get even drying and less chance of mould etc
Your right wood is hygroscoppic (resopond's to changes in humidity level's) Just something we have to accept. The art of joinery and carpentery is to build wooden things that still function despite this tendency for wood to alternately swell and shrink. Some people rough shape while the wood is green then finish when its dry (eg when I do chair parts I rough them out with my axe and drawknife, then leave them a year or more to air dry, finish off drying indoors for 10 or 14 days then do final precise cutting of round tennons and assemble immaedialey. Same with bowls. Some people rough turn them with inch thick walls then let them dry in a slow controlled way in bag's of damp sawdust and so forth to minimise warping and cracking, then do shaping cuts and finish, again when dry.
Some methods of woodworking use the wood green from the start (eg oak frames for buildings, hazel hurdles, chestnut or oak gates, etc). Mostly utilising simple mortice and tennon's and peg's to hold it all together. Wood shrinks a lot across its width, hardly any at all along its length, again you have to take that into consideration when making wood stuff. Someone built a timber frame house just up the road. It has a small tying joint on the porch with jowl posts and tying beam. The joint arrangement and executuion has failed already after less than 2 year's (long vertical crack down the jowl post) because the framer didnt allow for the shrinkage in the green oak across its width (made his mortice in the tying beam too tight, probably done on a machine
Theres another house next door none of there jowl posts have failed, they were done by hand 500 years ago by men who had a close workng understanding of the physical propeerties of timber (specifically green oak) I would say get some wood and try it out, try splitting, try sawing or get someone to saw it for you (a yard wont, a hidden nail will cost them £££'s in lost time and they wont take the risk). Set some aside and observe how it changes, hardness, colour etc. Another test is to weigh a fresh cut piece and note the weight. As it dries this will reduce, when it evens out at a more or less steady amount your about there.
Hope this hepls cheers Jonathan
I personally find pine one of the most difficult wood's to work (unless its top grade redwood from scandinavia or something) mostly it's too soft and crumbly especially for doing dovetails, and its a #### to plane. Beech, oak, they are easier but I do have a set of efficient if modest tool's to do the job. I rescued a block of beech from the fire wod pile. Effectively "quarter sawn" as the growth ring's are parallele to the top and bottom surface's of the block, it is DENSE and would make a superb plane body
Oak splits great when its green, splits itself almost, easier than ash IMHO. I wouldnt waste time trying to cleave pine because of the knot's every 18 inche's or so
Jonathan is dead on with his remarks, all I can add is a bit of odd experience and a few new experiments.
Rather random but that is the artist's mind at work.
Green or dry depends on the project and the needs/availability.
If needing a spoon right now I will pick a green branch, split it, carve it and boil it in oil. Boiling forces out the natural sap while replacing it with much slower drying oil. The wood will have less tendency to split if treated this way. And some species will become as tough as steel per equal weight.
If I need a tool handle I will look for a recently dead tree still standing so the rot hasn't had a chance to start. It is much slower to work but is finished as soon as I can shape it. Lightning will leave trees dead, standing in many cases and still strong in many parts of the tree.
When turning bowls I have been trying a method recently published involving soaking the rough turned bowl in alcohol over night then tightly wrapping the outside of the bowl with brown paper to slow the outward drying while leaving the center open allowing the interior to dry faster. This results in a fully dried bowl in a week or two depending on size and wall thickness. Tests have shown little to no checks, cracks or out of round defects after drying by this method. The alcohol does not affect most stains or finishes.
The only advantage I know of for kiln drying is the extermination of wood boring pests. You must raise the interior of the wood to 140°F for 8 hours to kill all the bugs and their eggs.
Our old growth loblolly and heart pine make fine carvings but the wood is extremely rare and only found as reclaimed lumber or long submerged logs.
Rather random but that is the artist's mind at work.
Green or dry depends on the project and the needs/availability.
If needing a spoon right now I will pick a green branch, split it, carve it and boil it in oil. Boiling forces out the natural sap while replacing it with much slower drying oil. The wood will have less tendency to split if treated this way. And some species will become as tough as steel per equal weight.
If I need a tool handle I will look for a recently dead tree still standing so the rot hasn't had a chance to start. It is much slower to work but is finished as soon as I can shape it. Lightning will leave trees dead, standing in many cases and still strong in many parts of the tree.
When turning bowls I have been trying a method recently published involving soaking the rough turned bowl in alcohol over night then tightly wrapping the outside of the bowl with brown paper to slow the outward drying while leaving the center open allowing the interior to dry faster. This results in a fully dried bowl in a week or two depending on size and wall thickness. Tests have shown little to no checks, cracks or out of round defects after drying by this method. The alcohol does not affect most stains or finishes.
The only advantage I know of for kiln drying is the extermination of wood boring pests. You must raise the interior of the wood to 140°F for 8 hours to kill all the bugs and their eggs.
Our old growth loblolly and heart pine make fine carvings but the wood is extremely rare and only found as reclaimed lumber or long submerged logs.
Another usefull trick if you are going to season wood, especially longer pieces, is to seal the end grain with wax at both ends. This prevents the wood from spliting and ensures a more even drying process. This works very well if you are trying to speed up the process by bringing the wood inside.
Baggins
Baggins
I'll give that a whirl in a minute, as Ratbag accompanied me to the local woods today after a poor shoot. If you had been in the woods today, you sure would have got a surprise as two over 30 year old apes were swinging about in the trees! We gathered some nice stout and straigh staves, ready for stick making as and when. There is a good supply around us, so it looks like we could be in for some good arrows and staffs in the future!
I know this is an old thread, but it seemed the right place to ask: Why do the pieces of wood I collect to carve always split? I understand that this is supposed to happen if I put it somewhere warm, but I thought that a cold garage would be perfect. I'm talking about pieces a foot long and 2" diameter. The air is obviously dry in the garage, but it's very cold. Is outside under cover the only way?
having ends split is due to the moisture going out of the end grain faster than it goes out of the rest of the length as far as i know. whatever the techie reason, there is a tried and tested method to stopping it happening. what i do is strip the outer bark from the length i will want to work, then i use duct tape to cover and seal up the end grain. this allows most of the moisture to be extruded out of the length through the walls, not out of he end grain, or some such thing i think. works for me.
regards dried or green, depends on the wood and the usage i guess. i usually end up working with hazel, birch or ash. usually deadfall or storm damage. i gather suitable bits of wood when i am out, then i strip and tape the ends and dry them for a few months before working on them. i live in a city apartment so just leaving a piece of wood without taping the ends in the place would cause it to buckle like hell.
hope this is helpful
regards dried or green, depends on the wood and the usage i guess. i usually end up working with hazel, birch or ash. usually deadfall or storm damage. i gather suitable bits of wood when i am out, then i strip and tape the ends and dry them for a few months before working on them. i live in a city apartment so just leaving a piece of wood without taping the ends in the place would cause it to buckle like hell.
hope this is helpful
robin wood
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I suspect its because you are trying to work with the whole round of the wood. If you want to make something 2" diameter you need to start with a 4" diameter tree, split it lengthways into quarters then shave them down to your 2" round. If you do this you can make it green and it won't split. If you have 2" round material split it down and make something smaller, if you try to use the whole round of a tree it generally ends up splitting however slowly you dry it.
Getting back to the (now ancient) original topic of the thread, there is a shortcut that works fairly well to make seasoned wood.
It's a bowyers trick that gets the wood to moisture equilibrium (which is what you really want), but without a really big shock to the wood: if you have a car, put the wood in the car in the sunshine.
Even in the winter this can take a well worked green wood and season it inside of a week or two.
I've done this about six times and had it work really well four times. In humid, cool San Francisco it can take a rough shaped stave and get dry enough for fine tillering in about 10 days. Compared to waiting 12 months to air dry something, I'm happy with 10 days.
It's a bowyers trick that gets the wood to moisture equilibrium (which is what you really want), but without a really big shock to the wood: if you have a car, put the wood in the car in the sunshine.
Even in the winter this can take a well worked green wood and season it inside of a week or two.
I've done this about six times and had it work really well four times. In humid, cool San Francisco it can take a rough shaped stave and get dry enough for fine tillering in about 10 days. Compared to waiting 12 months to air dry something, I'm happy with 10 days.
"The Traditional Bowyer's Bible" recommends this technique and regards it as essential for woods such as osage orange to the point of applying glue/wax immediately after the stave is cut.
On another note, Ben Orford told me that, for green woodwork, you can always soak wood in water if it's dried out too much.
Thanks for the tips, people. It was a 2" diameter branch, rather than a piece of trunk, and not perfectly straight. Does that make a difference?
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