What to do with partially boggy land?

[bushcraftlearner83729]

Should I try and grow vegetables that like boggy land or work on drainage to make the land not boggy? The space is around 2 acres.

I saw a couple of youtube videos, one in scotland, so same climate pretty much, where they grew rice and said if you choose the right variety then it isn't too hard. I eat tons of rice and that is my main staple and it dries so it would go to good use so could I try that on the boggy parts?

I would say it is mostly boggy about 60-70% with only a few parts not boggy.

So how best to manage that? From what I have read irrigation is a very costly thing. From how hard it has been just clearing the overgrowth for access the idea of having to do all that for irrigation, for maybe a 2ft ditch is daunting. In that case I would envision either hiring a digger or doing volunteer days for free labour in exchange for staying in a picturesque location and working on a permaculture project.

My goal is to work the land but not quite sure how yet. I did think vegetables initially but I thought since it would only be for myself there would be a massive surplus. Still do a bit of that but otherwise want to make good use of it and tend to it. So how I proceed depends on my goals and I am not sure what they are yet so would like to get some more ideas.

Not really interested in planting trees since they take decades to come to maturity don't they.

 

[Pattree]

What is going on in the land adjoining yours?

 

[bushcraftlearner83729]

What is going on in the land adjoining yours?

Well adjoining isn't the issue, that is a sheep field, and it is horizontal. I guess they don't have such issues because their house is above.

The water is running from the hill above apparently but there is a small single track road in between.

There is a ditch on the other side but doesn't drain I think and the water is coming through to my field.

 

[stonepark]

Digging with a proper ditching spade is not that difficult as long as ground is not overly stoney but a mini digger can do in a day, what you could manually do in a week.

No vegetables or cereals like boggy ground, they all prefer free draining soils, even rice, hence the drainage that nearly every farm has (except those on sand).

You would grow more veg in a 60ft poly tunnel with raised bed than you would in the open on boggy ground.

Most permaculture set ups grow for maximum utility (combination of high value and nutrition) rather than bulk grains (cheap and easily available) such as rice.

Growing peppers (hot and mild), tomatoes, beetroot, broccoli, kale, onion, garlic, ginger, all own herbs etc (i.e. all the stuff you eat alongside rice) is much more worthwhile and productive.

If you want to clear scrub, answer is goats but they will eat everything they can get access to and they don't believe in fences less than 4ft high but have added benefit of meat production (and milk\cheese if you want to go down that route)

 

[Woody girl]

Willow is your tree for boggy ground, grows fast and a good source of fire wood, or craft material, basket weaving, garden plant supports, sculptures, etc and a potential income.
Good screening too.

 

[Broch]

And that's a problem that has been destroying our natural wetlands for millennia. We are desperately short of boggy marsh believe it or not (I know that locally it can seem like the only habitat). Celebrate its biodiversity value; put in a few scrapes and ponds, and enjoy the unique wildlife you'll get.

We shouldn't be draining any more land for food production.

This isn't just my grumpy opinion but the view of conservationists in general and even the Nature Friendly Farmers group.

A natural alder/willow carr would be one way to go - building the natural habitat to increase biodiversity and species numbers - it would be the most valuable thing you could do with it

 

[bushcraftlearner83729]

Digging with a proper ditching spade is not that difficult as long as ground is not overly stoney but a mini digger can do in a day, what you could manually do in a week.

No vegetables or cereals like boggy ground, they all prefer free draining soils, even rice, hence the drainage that nearly every farm has (except those on sand).

You would grow more veg in a 60ft poly tunnel with raised bed than you would in the open on boggy ground.

Most permaculture set ups grow for maximum utility (combination of high value and nutrition) rather than bulk grains (cheap and easily available) such as rice.

Growing peppers (hot and mild), tomatoes, beetroot, broccoli, kale, onion, garlic, ginger, all own herbs etc (i.e. all the stuff you eat alongside rice) is much more worthwhile and productive.

If you want to clear scrub, answer is goats but they will eat everything they can get access to and they don't believe in fences less than 4ft high but have added benefit of meat production (and milk\cheese if you want to go down that route)

Oh well I have nothing but time so I am up for it if it is faesible.

Hmm well since I am not that bothered about vege - I eat buy some but it isn't something to live on compared to carbs like rice - I was thinking maybe cultivate ornamental or conservation space instead.

I kind of want to do that to impress the locals since I am new and want them to see I am making a good go of it and from what I have been told it was just a load of scrub for years.

Maybe some root vege but seems 2 acres is more than enough for 1 person to sustain themselves? Also I am vegan so no animal exploitation for me.

I am not expecting to be totally self sustaining any time soon but it was a distant goal.

 

[bushcraftlearner83729]

Willow is your tree for boggy ground, grows fast and a good source of fire wood, or craft material, basket weaving, garden plant supports, sculptures, etc and a potential income.
Good screening too.

Oh that sounds great because of the uses of willow as you say and putting the existing landscape to good use. Wood make great use of that for shelters and such.

There is a tiny bit of woodland in the corner and another section of almost an acre but really it isn't good for anything I think. Most of the trees or rotton and very big gaps between them. Don't know what variety they are but they grow straight up from the ground up to about 50ft in the larger section and no branches except at the top. Just a couple branches down at ground level that...branch out.

I had been thinking of buying in roundwood and trying my hand at roundwood timber framing as something else to do.

 

[bushcraftlearner83729]

And that's a problem that has been destroying our natural wetlands for millennia. We are desperately short of boggy marsh believe it or not (I know that locally it can seem like the only habitat). Celebrate it's biodiversity value; put in a few scrapes and ponds, and enjoy the unique wildlife you'll get.

We shouldn't be draining any more land for food production.

This isn't just my grumpy opinion but the view of conservationists in general and even the Nature Friendly Farmers group.

A natural alder/willow carr would be one way to go - building the natural habitat to increase biodiversity and species numbers - it would be the most valuable thing you could do with it

Seems a bit paradoxical, living in a sustainable, self-sufficient, low-impact manner on a little patch is better than relying on intensive industrial farming and using big supermarkets which ship in from all over the world, no?

 

[British Red]

Living in the Fens we are very familiar with wet land. There is a huge amount you can do. I agree with the suggestion of a polytunnel / glass house. If you grow
Garlic
Spring Onion
Ginger
Shallots
Chillies

You have the basis for many Asian dishes.

I would suggest testing the soil. If on the acid side I would strongly suggest blueberries and cranberries. Other bush based fruits do fine (raspberry, gooseberry)

Mulberry trees & Quince like wet & fruit in under a decade.

Try raised beds. You can generate a lot of compostable organic matter and raising beds allows drainage.

Try excavating some soil for a pond to raise the beds. This improves the drainage, provided soil for raising beds & helps wildlife.

Put ducks on the pond for meat & eggs


...I will stop there!

 

[Woody girl]

If you want to grow veg, raised beds on the least boggy areas are your best bet. Localy the council gave a bit of boggy ground for allotments, nothing grew, and everyone gave up. I suggested raised beds but got poo pooed...too much work. Silly realy, but thats folks for you.
Look at permaculture, better still, go on a course and learn what the best solutions for your land are.
I agree wholeheartedly with Broch. The cost of draining boggy land would be uneconomical anyway.
You bought boggy land..your choice to do so. Work with it rather than try to change it, otherwise it's a bit like buying a woodland and chopping down all the trees to make a field. Bogs are meant to be bogs! There is a natural water table, it's been there for ever. Us stupid humans think we know better than nature and try to "improve "everything, usualy messing things up big time. I've lived on the somerset levels for 20 years, before moving to higher ground before I developed webbed feet.
It's a constant battle which with the present climate change, I've seen get worse and worse. From the occasional flood, to severe or frequent flooding year on year.
Those wetland areas are there for a reason.
That's not to say you can't make good use of it . Just need to think a bit sideways.

 

[Glow_worm]

If you're new to growing veg, start small. You'll need a lot of compost and a few years before you get really good results. It will also be a learning curve as to what really wants to grow there. Don't underestimate the amount of time an input required. If you start with a few raised beds which you can keep on top of, you could get good results. Turn over too much land to growing food and you could easily put in several hundred hours and get £50 worth of vegetables for your efforts...

 

[Woody girl]

Think about what inhabits wetlands.
Ducks, geese, (eggs fetch good prices at farmers markets or local grocers.then there are gate sales.) With simple willow items such as tension trays and obelisks you have an income in a short space of time and minimal outlay.
One of the best bits of advice is to live on your land for a year (all four seasons) make notes, the wettest areas, that's your duck pond, driest area is your poly tunnel or raised beds. Where does the prevailing wind come from, there is your willow shelter belt etc. Fill your notebook and work from that information. It will save a lot of mistakes and heartbreak!!!!!!

 

[Pattree]

How are your neighbours using their lane?

 

[GreyCat]

Hi @bushcraftlearner83729, welcome.

I have been dealing with a similar situation, a piece of land in Carmarthenshire. It's a 1-acre hillside plot with a house on (the house was very dilapidated, we're renovating it to live in). I have had 2 years to watch the garden and and as @Woody girl says, you need to watch it for a year before going anything major.

The acre of "garden" is mainly stony clay hillside bog. The locals say there's little springs all over the hillside and I believe it, we have a stream running through the property and smaller streams around the perimeter.

The land over the fence is naturally regenerated hillside carr/woodland- the farmer gave up on that corner about 10-15 years ago and it's reverted to natural state. Vegetation is alder, hazel, willow plus some oak and birch in drier spots. (Hedges are mainly hazel and holly with a bit of thorn).

There's an area of made ground near the house where the previous owner built it up. That dries out reasonably and he had a veg garden there which was apparently very productive. The rest of the plot is on the other side of the stream and is boggy to a greater or lesser extent, and was not rich in species (I had an ecologist on site 18 months ago and asked his advice).

So, whilst the builder had machinery on site, his groundworks specialist dug some of the boggiest area out into a hole (using a long-reach attachment- get too close and any machine sinks and gets stuck). As I expected, it very quickly filled with water from underneath (and the dragonflies found it within 48 hours)- I am pretty sure there's a spring underheath keeping the local water table high.

The area around the pond plus another area down the hill is moderately boggy. I will be planting willow there. I found this supplier in Carmarthenshire: https://westwaleswillows.co.uk/product-category/living-willow-for-planting/willow-cuttings-rods/ I will be using a mix of basketry willows https://westwaleswillows.co.uk/product/justine3/ and some fast-growing hybrd for willow biofuel coppice https://westwaleswillows.co.uk/product/src-kit/.

Over the past 2 years, the only thing that I have planted that has grown well in the wet areas is willow (Salix verminalis), Alder and Dogwoods (Cornus). We get flag iris and various version of hogweed near the watercourse, hogweed will take over if you allow it (I don't, as the sap gives me allergic dermatitis).

I would like to put in some useful things like bog myrtle (Myrica gale)- the candleberry as you can harvest wax from it. Also will be planting some phragmites, I bought some tiny plugs last year and have grown them on so I now have a decent amount of reasonble size plants to put out. Phragmites, typhus and various willow will be going aroung the pond edges to provide cover for wildlife.

Near the pond edges, digging little drainage channels is extremely difficult (even with a spike and mattock) because the ground is very soft and there's a lot of stones in it. As you put some welly into digging, you sink deeper into the bog, I did get my wellies stuck on one occasion, had to climb out of my wellies, and exit in my socks, digging the wellies out as I went. I gave up on the idea of any drainage, willow it is.....

The willows and cornus will provide fuel and baskettry materials, and I am starting to manage the hedges for wood and hazel rods. (Needs much work as they'd been neglected and flail mowed for at least 15 years). The raised area I will use as an orchard and also some raised beds with protection for veg.

Ducks is a good idea but that is a way off yet (ducks eat slugs which is a great asset in a wet garden).

I echo what others say- work with it.

GC

 

[GreyCat]

Natural pond, just dug out:



(The trees behind are on our side of the boundary- it's the old hedge grown up a lot. Needs some work to thin the canopy a bit and regenerate a boundary but that's a job for a specialist).

There is an overflow pipe built in, the water naturally sits a couple of inches below it (that's why it was put where it was). This area was basically a pond anyway, but silted up. There is a slow flow from springs running in and also from underneath.

GC

 

[Glow_worm]

Think about what inhabits wetlands.
Ducks, geese, (eggs fetch good prices at farmers markets or local grocers.then there are gate sales.)

Sound advice, but do consider that theft of poultry from uninhabited sites has become rife in the last decade or so, I know of several instances where huge amounts of labour and money have been put into raising table birds, or maintaining layers, only for them to disappear in the night.

I presume you don't have planning permission to live on the site, so security in this sense is an issue.

Equally you need to determine what you are likely to be allowed to do with the place- if you live in a van and the council won't let you place sheds for storage on your land, there is no point aiming to make a sideline in crafts or food which will require storage space. What is the designated use of the land? In many situations councils will be very wary of allowing anything which may be a foot on the rung to residential use, even if there is seemingly little connection.

 

[Tengu]

What did people do in the past?

 

[bushcraftlearner83729]

Living in the Fens we are very familiar with wet land. There is a huge amount you can do. I agree with the suggestion of a polytunnel / glass house. If you grow
Garlic
Spring Onion
Ginger
Shallots
Chillies

You have the basis for many Asian dishes.

I would suggest testing the soil. If on the acid side I would strongly suggest blueberries and cranberries. Other bush based fruits do fine (raspberry, gooseberry)

Mulberry trees & Quince like wet & fruit in under a decade.

Try raised beds. You can generate a lot of compostable organic matter and raising beds allows drainage.

Try excavating some soil for a pond to raise the beds. This improves the drainage, provided soil for raising beds & helps wildlife.

Put ducks on the pond for meat & eggs


...I will stop there!

Thanks, but all the suggestions for growing seem like things that don't fill you up so I feel it is hardly worth the effort.

I stopped even bothering to buy onions and garlic lately due to the effort of peeling them not really being worth it for the moderate taste they add. I tried a week without cooking the same meals and don't even notice them being missing now. Now spices on the other hand I am finding essential so if they can be grown you may well have my ear.

I just do rice, maybe one root vege or otherwise legumes or pulses and vary up the spices with a good lashing of oil for taste.

Also love my fruit! So would be very interested in growing that too!

 

[GreyCat]

What did people do in the past?

They drank from the local stream/river/spring- as they still do in many parts of the world today. Typically had worms and other intestinal parasites as routine. (There is a suggestion by some that allergies in the modern world are at least in part due to us not having a parasitic load to keep the immune system busy).

Gradual move from hunting to agriculture- by medieval times, forest becomes "parkland" (i.e. pollarded trees with cattle/sheep beneath). Pigs run in the woods (right of pannage), geese and maybe a cow on the common land. Hay in water meadows. The rough land would be avoided, as not many people around then compared to now.

I expect in most eras folks also had small kitchen gardens, carefully manured with chicken poo and whatever else could be found. More perennial vegetables- lower yield but less chance of total failure.

GC