What is in your medical/first aid kit, show and tell

[Blaidd]

A&E would have used Dermabond not superglue, different stuff and they would have cleaned the wound first and done it in a clean area. I couldn't see anything in your kit to clean and debride a wound enough to use surgical glue.

I forgot to mention the blowtorch.

My bad, I copied and pasted from a document I had on file and missed the Superglue line (some of it was a tongue in cheek for a different forum, at least I deleted the "leeches" line). I wouldn't close a wound completely so as not to trap infection, and anyway, my levels of expertise are
1. Booboo. Clean, protect and carry on.
2. Oops. Clean, protect, make sure it doesn't get worse and take to hospital
3. OMG. Make sure it doesn't get worse, stop them from dying until ambulance arrives.

 

[Graveworm]

Morphine slow release patch

Morphine doesn't come in patches. What you have there is buprenorphine. If you didn't need it when you set off you won't need it whilst you are out.

 

[racer66]

Morphine doesn't come in patches. What you have there is buprenorphine. If you didn't need it when you set off you won't need it whilst you are out.

Thanks for the info, I will prob ditch it then. It came for when I had some long term infection pain.

 

[Graveworm]

Thanks for the info, I will prob ditch it then. It came for when I had some long term infection pain.

That's not a bad call it makes sense It's very slow release and designed for Chronic pain. It takes about 2-3 days to kick in properly and stays in your system for another day or 2 after you remove it.

 

[Bowlander]

Whats SLEEC?

Sorry for the delay in replying, linky below, the trainer was a great guy, ex-forces with a no-nonsense approach.

http://www.traumaresus.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=142:sleec&Itemid=268

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2

 

[Gimli]

I'm still new to this forum so I'm not sure when people are being serious or not. Laryngoscopes, sutures and buprenorphine???? I do hope these guys are joking!

 

[Quixoticgeek]

I'm still new to this forum so I'm not sure when people are being serious or not. Laryngoscopes, sutures and buprenorphine???? I do hope these guys are joking!

I do not believe these inclusions in peoples kits to be a joke. It is my understanding that at least one person on this forum who is also a paramedic carries a laryngoscope.

When you go off the beaten track, you have to be a lot more reliant upon what you have with you. I have in the past really appreciate the fact that I had an ambulance crew with me on my trip...

I've been doing some research into the injuries that people have had when out practising bushcraft, and the first aid kits they carry. The initial results show that the injuries people get are more than just the cuts and grazes your average travel first aid kit is aimed at (tho they do still account for the bulk of the injuries). The data also shows clearly that bushcrafters do not deem off the shelf first aid kits as you might get from lifesystems or boots are really not adequate and need modification. More research is in progress, but it's been very interesting so far.

Julia

 

[sausage100uk]

I carry a scope and sutures as I know how and when to use them and if i really needed them theres nothing I can jury rig to do the same job. For the opposite reason i dont carry any haemostatic agents (although lots of people do) as I dont have any experience using them (and imho they arent needed).

 

[Gimli]

I do not believe these inclusions in peoples kits to be a joke. It is my understanding that at least one person on this forum who is also a paramedic carries a laryngoscope.

When you go off the beaten track, you have to be a lot more reliant upon what you have with you. I have in the past really appreciate the fact that I had an ambulance crew with me on my trip...

I've been doing some research into the injuries that people have had when out practising bushcraft, and the first aid kits they carry. The initial results show that the injuries people get are more than just the cuts and grazes your average travel first aid kit is aimed at (tho they do still account for the bulk of the injuries). The data also shows clearly that bushcrafters do not deem off the shelf first aid kits as you might get from lifesystems or boots are really not adequate and need modification. More research is in progress, but it's been very interesting so far.

Julia

I look forward to seeing the results of your study and I do agree that the contents of most first aid kits is aimed at bumps and scrapes. I am also a Paramedic and I currently work on a HEMS (helicopter) unit but I also have worked on solo cars and motorbikes and I was a team leader with Special Operations/HART, so I do have a bit of experience in this area. I would be keen to know what use a laryngoscope has without ET tubes and a suction device or magill forceps? And if you're going to carry that type of equipment I think you're starting to wander away from the ideals of getting out into the wilds for a more natural and enjoyable experience. I would accept that sutures being so small are not a burden to carry and can be immediately effective on their own, but it would be a very unpleasant experience without a local anaesthetic. I only carry a small and basic kit and have never needed more in 25 years of hill walking and wild camping. Perhaps I'm just lucky or perhaps others are unlucky.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

I look forward to seeing the results of your study and I do agree that the contents of most first aid kits is aimed at bumps and scrapes. I am also a Paramedic and I currently work on a HEMS (helicopter) unit but I also have worked on solo cars and motorbikes and I was a team leader with Special Operations/HART, so I do have a bit of experience in this area. I would be keen to know what use a laryngoscope has without ET tubes and a suction device or magill forceps? And if you're going to carry that type of equipment I think you're starting to wander away from the ideals of getting out into the wilds for a more natural and enjoyable experience. I would accept that sutures being so small are not a burden to carry and can be immediately effective on their own, but it would be a very unpleasant experience without a local anaesthetic. I only carry a small and basic kit and have never needed more in 25 years of hill walking and wild camping. Perhaps I'm just lucky or perhaps others are unlucky.

In this thread the magill forceps are in the kit, not sure about the ET tubes.

It's interesting to hear the feedback from people at the front line such as yourself and sausage100uk. I'm just a first aider, tho I often work with ambulance crews on events. The side that you lot see, especially if you are on HEMS or HART is probably very different to what we see, and you have considerably more tools in the box.

For me I've sat down and done a basic analysis of the potential injuries that can be acquired when out in the bush. The hardest part of this is having to accept that "if x happens when in the woods, I won't come out alive". What x is, depends on where I am. In the centre of a city, I would likely survive X (subject to local ambulance response time), in the woods on the edge of town with phone signal, then it's probably 50/50 either way. The woods 10 miles from a village where phone signal is poor, 10%... on the side of a mountain in Scotland, probably 0%. (Assuming I am on my own). If I am with someone with basic training the chances of surviving x increases in many situations, but there are some things where that isn't going to make a difference.

Even if I have an issue on a mountain side while hiking with both you and sausage100uk and you get the laryngoscope out, and you get the airway in, and stabilise my unconscious body ready to ship to the nearest hospital. But without a means to call for help, due to lack of phone signal say, it's a fruitless effort.

Ultimately we all have to decide upon our acceptable level of risk. We have to decide at what point we say "I accept that if x happens, I'm dead". Then tailor our equipment to the level of risk we have chosen to accept.

Julia

 

[Blaidd]

I'm not a Rambo wannabe, but some of a soldiers kit is there to be used on himself by a medic. I wouldn't necessarily baulk at carrying something that I would never use, if it wasn't too bulky, if I thought it might help a trained medic. And, no, I can't necessarily think of anything off the top of my head.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

I'm not a Rambo wannabe, but some of a soldiers kit is there to be used on himself by a medic. I wouldn't necessarily baulk at carrying something that I would never use, if it wasn't too bulky, if I thought it might help a trained medic. And, no, I can't necessarily think of anything off the top of my head.

That is due to a very different environment. The rational being that you use the dressings/CAT from the victim to treat them, because at any given moment you may need your dressing to treat yourself. This is largely as in this situation the chances of you the medic acquiring a injury as well is considerably higher, than that of the mountain rescue team member who's come to your aid...

We can learn a lot about emergency medicine and trauma care from the recent deployments to the Middle East and Asia, however we need to take into account the environmental differences. I would hope that if I cut myself when out in the woods, the friend treating me isn't also at risk of being shot at the same time...

Julia

 

[Bluffer]

A soldiers med kit is for buddy-aid, all soldiers are trained to a mandated minimum level.

Team medics carry a slightly different kit.

Role 1 Combat Med Techs carry trauma kit and their routine training can include a fair amount of paramedic skills, even though they are not registered paramedics.

It's what makes me cringe about threads like this - they seem to attract Walter Mittys and bull****ters all claiming to be 'combat medics' and qualified to use various spurious pieces of medical equipment

 

[GGTBod]

I am glad i never fitted any of those descriptions anything that needs more than butterfly stitches (steri-strips) and i am looking for professional help and my med kit carries nothing i can not use, as i have no medical training other than a days first aid and cpr course this means it is very small, this thread was started because of the comedy entertainment i'd had in a previous thread about peoples medical uses for a sanitary towel/pad

 

[Bluffer]

A sensible approach, cos anything more than that is over-burdening yourself or just being a drama queen

 

[Bluffer]

I found a box of those so called sanitary 'towels' at swimming this morning.

Took the whole box to dry myself, they are rubbish!

 

[GGTBod]

That paints an excellent comedy image.

Totally agree there on the overburdening and if being totally honest I have even been know to be dramatically royal every now and then before smacking my own royal hiney and getting back to my common as muck roots to make a sensible decision before taking any action, thankfully.

I blame Macgyver and too much tv as a kid

 

[Gimli]

In this thread the magill forceps are in the kit, not sure about the ET tubes.

It's interesting to hear the feedback from people at the front line such as yourself and sausage100uk. I'm just a first aider, tho I often work with ambulance crews on events. The side that you lot see, especially if you are on HEMS or HART is probably very different to what we see, and you have considerably more tools in the box.

For me I've sat down and done a basic analysis of the potential injuries that can be acquired when out in the bush. The hardest part of this is having to accept that "if x happens when in the woods, I won't come out alive". What x is, depends on where I am. In the centre of a city, I would likely survive X (subject to local ambulance response time), in the woods on the edge of town with phone signal, then it's probably 50/50 either way. The woods 10 miles from a village where phone signal is poor, 10%... on the side of a mountain in Scotland, probably 0%. (Assuming I am on my own). If I am with someone with basic training the chances of surviving x increases in many situations, but there are some things where that isn't going to make a difference.

Even if I have an issue on a mountain side while hiking with both you and sausage100uk and you get the laryngoscope out, and you get the airway in, and stabilise my unconscious body ready to ship to the nearest hospital. But without a means to call for help, due to lack of phone signal say, it's a fruitless effort.

Ultimately we all have to decide upon our acceptable level of risk. We have to decide at what point we say "I accept that if x happens, I'm dead". Then tailor our equipment to the level of risk we have chosen to accept.

Julia

Julia you make some really good points. We all have to accept the x chance that you mention. Being involved in an RTA (yes I know it's an old term) in a rural environment has different risks from being involved in one in London, but we still drive into the countryside. If we all carried what we are trained to use then I'd have a defib, lots of drugs, intubation kit, cannulation kit, IO kit and lots of immobilisation stuff. Now thats just not practical plus, I cant afford it. I carry what I think I'll need the greatest amount of times that will have the greatest amount of effect, if that makes sense. You mentioned that you were "just a first aider" but I think you are underestimating your skills. All casualties need the basics before anything else and thats what keeps them alive. A study in Edinburgh showed that good effective CPR is more important than drugs and tubes. I cant speak for other that use this forum, I can only talk from my training and experience. I have read a lot of posts and I do find a lot of odd stuff. There are some people posting on this site whose claimed experience, knowledge and training don't seem to ring true. I do however think that a lot of people on here talk a lot of sense. A final point on the sanitary items that started all this. I find there use for anything other than fire lighting and their intended use very odd and disturbing:-0

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Julia you make some really good points. We all have to accept the x chance that you mention. Being involved in an RTA (yes I know it's an old term) in a rural environment has different risks from being involved in one in London, but we still drive into the countryside. If we all carried what we are trained to use then I'd have a defib, lots of drugs, intubation kit, cannulation kit, IO kit and lots of immobilisation stuff. Now thats just not practical plus, I cant afford it. I carry what I think I'll need the greatest amount of times that will have the greatest amount of effect, if that makes sense.

It's a difficult one. I fear the casualty that I have on a hillside that doesn't make it but could have been saved if I had more kit. I can't carry a full Resus kit, O2, Entonox, Igels, OP's and defib with me at all times. So I have to accept that there may be a casualty that I can't save. I'll just have to do my best with what I can. It hurts to have to make that call tho. You can't save everybody. I can't imagine what it's like for those of you who have access to an even bigger tool box at work. "If only I'd had my work bag with me"

The kit I carry is enough to support the best I can offer. I can't carry a defib, but a 300mg Aspirin tablet could be enough for the casualty to survive until for the whirly bird arrives and takes them to hospital.

I tend to travel alone, so I don't carry too much kit for use on other people, there is no point in me having airways for example, I can't exactly put one in myself... But having a pair of proper dressings could be what stops me from bleeding to death due to a poorly placed knife cut.

When I went to the postoffice this week to post a letter, someone in the queue ahead of me had a seizure and collapsed. Despite the fact I had my full bushcraft first aid kit in my hand bag with me, the most useful item I had for this casualty was my overshirt. I folded it up for the casualty to use as a pillow until the paramedic arrived. If the response time had been slower or we'd been outside then perhaps the space blanket in there might have been useful to. But neither is really a first aid item.

You mentioned that you were "just a first aider" but I think you are underestimating your skills. All casualties need the basics before anything else and thats what keeps them alive. A study in Edinburgh showed that good effective CPR is more important than drugs and tubes. I cant speak for other that use this forum, I can only talk from my training and experience.

There is a heavy emphasis within first-aid and pre hospital care upon cardiac based incidents. Yes CPR is effective, yes early defibrillation can make a real difference, and we are seeing survival rates that would be unheard of just 20 or 30 years ago. But the reality is that a lot of the injuries we are likely to see in the woods are not going to be cardiac events. It's going to be cuts, it's going to be burns, and it's going to be the HSE's favourite slips, trips and falls. In extreme cases of all of these then a first aid kit and training will make the difference. You cut your leg, and you want to get a dressing on it PDQ. You spill the bacon fat on your leg, you need to get water and then a burn dressing on it PDQ. But if your airway is compromised, then getting an OP or igel in there is going to make a big difference to the survival rate...

All of this is of course entirely redundant if you've no phone signal and can't call for help...

I have read a lot of posts and I do find a lot of odd stuff. There are some people posting on this site whose claimed experience, knowledge and training don't seem to ring true. I do however think that a lot of people on here talk a lot of sense.

I agree with what you say, I do sometimes wonder if some people have forgetten that they are going for a walk in the new forest, not Helmand province, they don't need a TCAT, they don't really need quickclot.

A final point on the sanitary items that started all this. I find there use for anything other than fire lighting and their intended use very odd and disturbing:-0

If however you are carrying them for their intended purpose, then they can also be used as a makeshift dressing if you have run out. I wouldn't carry them just for their non intended use, you're better off with a small IDF dressing. But if you have them anyway... remember, not all bushcrafters are men...

Julia

 

[Quixoticgeek]

It occurs to me that a bushcraft first aid kit performs two distinct roles that may influence the choices we all make in what goes into them.

Role 1: Keeping you moving - In this role you have the blister treatment, you have the plasters for your cuts, and maybe if you are trained to use them, the sutures. It means you can continue your activity without needing to resort to treatment in conventional care facilities.

Role 2: Keeping you alive - In this role it's about keeping you alive until you can get to proper medical treatment, be it a Fast Response Unit Paramedic, an Ambulance, Air Ambulance, SAR Helicopter, SAR team, or your own transport to hospital. This tends to be the more urgent care situations, your severe bleeds, head injuries, cardiac incidents etc...

When you consider both these roles, you can easily get a lot of feature creep in your first-aid kit. What starts as a pack of plasters acquires a pocket mask, then some ambulance dressings, and before you know it there's a TCAT and iGel in there... But a more thorough risk analysis can help limit this.

As humans we are very good at looking at the edge cases and forgetting the centre of the bell curve.

Julia