What Arctic Boots To Get?????

[jimjolli]

Hello,

I'm off to Sweden in Feb on an Arctic survival course and need to get some boots. I am guessing it'll probably be between -20C and -40C there.
I don't really want to spend more than £100, and ideally want boots that won't become redundant back here in the U.K.
The ones that seem to stand out to me are the Sorel Caribou boots. What do people think of these and are they good for the job. They are rated down to -40c, so I would probably wear a pair of wool socks inside the felt liners that come with the boots. I am a UK size 11 and was also wondering if I would need a larger size.
Any help with this would be much appreciated.

Also, if anybody has any good boots for sale, please let me know.

Jim

 

[Shewie]

Ben from Woodsmoke was selling some arctic boots a few weeks ago, can't remember what size but they were worn only once. Might be worth trying to contact him.

 

[jimjolli]

I saw that in another thread earlier today, but unfortunately they've gone. Also there were some Sorels in the classifieds, but they've gone too.

 

[coln18]

got the sorel caribous for xmas and they really are the bees knees, did a meet with barn owl and his feet were freezing and mine were just nice and toastie warm, so i defo give the thumbs up to the carabous....

Colin

 

[jimjolli]

Cheers Colin, thats good to know. How did you find the sizing? I don't want them too tight, as I've heard tight boots = cold feet.

 

[Angus Og]

Cheers Colin, thats good to know. How did you find the sizing? I don't want them too tight, as I've heard tight boots = cold feet.

The boots are big I got my normal size and have plenty of room and I have broad feet.

 

[big_swede]

A pair of used swedish army winter boots are around 350 SEK here, that's about £30.

I've used lundhags scout down to around those temperatures. Where are you going?

 

[Shewie]

Tamarack sell Sorel boots, with your Full Member discount you should get them for a decent price.

http://www.tamarackgroup.co.uk/acatalog/Sorel_Boots.html

 

[jimjolli]

A pair of used swedish army winter boots are around 350 SEK here, that's about £30.

I've used lundhags scout down to around those temperatures. Where are you going?

Where can I find them?

I'm going somewhere north of Kiruna.

Regarding Tamarack, they are supplying me with a load of stuff, that 15% is very handy. But unfortunately they currently can't get any Sorels. Seem to be sold out all over the U.K. Looking at getting them shipped over from the U.S., hence why I want to make sure I buy the right size.

 

[forestwalker]

I'm going somewhere north of Kiruna.

Are you going on the SÖS (Swedish Survival Guild) winter course in Lannavaara?

Regarding Tamarack, they are supplying me with a load of stuff, that 15% is very handy. But unfortunately they currently can't get any Sorels. Seem to be sold out all over the U.K. Looking at getting them shipped over from the U.S., hence why I want to make sure I buy the right size.

I have heard negative comments regarding the current line of Sorels. Look at the toe; is there space for a thick felt insole (replace any shaped sports crap, they are not very insulating), as well as plenty of socks, and tow wriggle room? The old, "bushy" ones had a big, almost boxy toe section.

For -20 C you can get away with just about any boot that allows you to have three layers of socks, at least two of which should be extra thick ones (or two socks and one felt bootie, of course). If you have a choice -- i.e. not essential but it helps -- make sure it has some sort of structure in the rear to hold on to a ski binding able (slightly projecting sole, etc); if you are using the old Swedish Army skis there is no strong need for a traditional square toe section, even if it helps.

Personally I use Nokian rubber boots with a removable felt liner when it is "warm" (down to -10 -- -15 C or so), and Sami fur boots when it is colder. I have just ordered a pair of True North Mukluks (http://www.empirecanvasworks.com/truenorthboots.htm), but both these and the Sami boots need special bindings. But the Nokians *did* work in -40 C, even if it was quite borderline. The problem with anything waterproof is that you will collect water on the inside of the boot, and that this will (a) destroy the insulation value of your socks,a nd (b) form a layer of ice on the inside during the night (wiping with a bandana when you take them off, and scraping the ice off with your nails in the morning helps)

Make sure to carry extra socks (3 sets), and to change and dry them continually (I have a wool undershirt with a "hoodie-style" pocket on the front: totally useless for hands, but quite nice for drying socks during the day). During the night take the socks (and any felt liner) out of your boots and tuck them into the bottom of your sleeping bag (inside a waterpoof bag to keep the sleeping bag from getting damp) to keep the socks and liners from freezing.

 

[jimjolli]

Thanks for all that info.

I am doing the Woodlore course.

The two shoes I have narrowed it down to so far are:

The Sorel Caribou, which I can use back in the UK, would have been very useful the past few weeks. But I'm not 100% confident they will work with the ski bindings. They are rated down to -40c.

and now

The Meindl Solden (sold at Tamarack). These look pretty good, and potentially also won't become redundant back here in the UK. The advantage of these is that they fit on the skis we use. The disadvantage is that they are only rated down to -25c.

I am not too keen on the idea of buying boots a few sizes to big and wearing loads of socks. I'd rather just buy a pair that'll fit me. Both the Sorels and Meindls have removable felt liners.

Any other suggestions or anyone had any experience of these shoes, maybe using them on this course.

 

[oetzi]

Have a look here:
http://wintertrekking.com/index.php...c8fc5e65f7&action=article_intro&sub=Equipment

 

[sandbender]

Thanks for all that info.

I am doing the Woodlore course.....The Meindl Solden (sold at Tamarack). These look pretty good, and potentially also won't become redundant back here in the UK..."

I have attended that course and used a pair of Meindl Perfekts, which are still getting good use each winter down here.

I'm not sure about temperature ratings for the Perfekt, however I was using them at -40 and they kept my feet nice and warm, they also worked well with the supplied skis.

If I had a complaint it would be that trying to lace them up after a night in a snow trench can be a bit fiddly, not much fun at those temperatures.

 

[coln18]

Hi Jim, I went for 1 size bigger in the caribous and they are just fine, i can easily get 2 thick pairs of socks on but can easily still operate in them with one thick pair of socks, they are also a boot that can be used in the uk in winter...

hope this helps

Colin

 

[jimjolli]

All this info really helps, thanks.

What defines whether the boots will work with the skis we will be using on the Woodlore course? Do they need special clips? Or does the sole need to be a special shape to fit? When I look at all the options of boots available how am I meant to know which ones will fit?

Colin, that's interesting you went for one larger size in the Sorels. Has anybody else had experience with the Caribous? Is it better to get a larger size? If they are rated to -40c, do I really need a larger size?

Does anybody know for sure if the Sorels will fit on the skis?

 

[forestwalker]

T
The Sorel Caribou, which I can use back in the UK, would have been very useful the past few weeks. But I'm not 100% confident they will work with the ski bindings. They are rated down to -40c.

Which skis/bindings are you going to use?

The Meindl Solden (sold at Tamarack). These look pretty good, and potentially also won't become redundant back here in the UK. The advantage of these is that they fit on the skis we use. The disadvantage is that they are only rated down to -25c.

That temperature rating is a bit on the short side for the region. It is one thing to be technically ok, but when you are cold, hungry and tired you need more. Yes, you can get away with them, but if you get a cold spell you will have problems.

 

[big_swede]

Which skis/bindings are you going to use?



That temperature rating is a bit on the short side for the region. It is one thing to be technically ok, but when you are cold, hungry and tired you need more. Yes, you can get away with them, but if you get a cold spell you will have problems.

It can also very well get warmer. I have been in Sarek during the same time of year and in nine days experienced temps between -9 to -32. The latter wasn't very fun.

 

[forestwalker]

It can also very well get warmer. I have been in Sarek during the same time of year and in nine days experienced temps between -9 to -32. The latter wasn't very fun.

That is one of the special "charms" of the region. Just a few days ago there where overnight swings from -35 C to -5 C. While I agree that -32 C is bit on the cold side, I actually would hate -5 C; then you get wet, you have to be totally paranoid about brushing off snow from your clothes as soon as you can, etc. Imagine how damp sleeping bags could get if you tuck in dressed for -35 C, and it gets warm while you sleep (i've gone to bed at -20 C and woken up to sleet and -2-- -3 C). And skiing at +2 C is horrid.

At -20 C life is easy; things stay dry, skiing is good, and snow is a dry powder that does not stick to everything. But you do need to have your kit-ducks all in a row; proper boots, proper mittens, a good parka for stops, a decent sleeping bag, etc. The kit- and skills issues are why most basic courses put -20 C as a minimum for overnight stays; beyond that you need to know what you are doing or things can go pear-shaped quickly, and day-tripping simply leaves more margins for error.

 

[big_swede]

That is one of the special "charms" of the region. Just a few days ago there where overnight swings from -35 C to -5 C. While I agree that -32 C is bit on the cold side, I actually would hate -5 C; then you get wet, you have to be totally paranoid about brushing off snow from your clothes as soon as you can, etc. Imagine how damp sleeping bags could get if you tuck in dressed for -35 C, and it gets warm while you sleep (i've gone to bed at -20 C and woken up to sleet and -2-- -3 C). And skiing at +2 C is horrid.

At -20 C life is easy; things stay dry, skiing is good, and snow is a dry powder that does not stick to everything. But you do need to have your kit-ducks all in a row; proper boots, proper mittens, a good parka for stops, a decent sleeping bag, etc. The kit- and skills issues are why most basic courses put -20 C as a minimum for overnight stays; beyond that you need to know what you are doing or things can go pear-shaped quickly, and day-tripping simply leaves more margins for error.

Well, I don't know if I agree. -20 can be hard for someone who hasn't experienced it before. And with modern materials, the around zero temps aren't such a big deal. No need to brush of XCR e.g. And the skiing depends a lot on what wax you use, and kind of skis.

There is no cutting corners at -20, you will have to be extremely anal about clothing and your kit, but you can make a few short cuts in warmer weather.

 

[forestwalker]

Well, I don't know if I agree. -20 can be hard for someone who hasn't experienced it before. And with modern materials, the around zero temps aren't such a big deal. No need to brush of XCR e.g. And the skiing depends a lot on what wax you use, and kind of skis.

I have no personal experiuence with the modern materials perform: I have seen some failures (e.g. a G-T bivy at -25 C was an epic fail), but that does not mean that the stuff isn't good when used appropriatly. As to skis I'm afraid I only have experience with two types of skis; Tegsnäs and Vita Blixten ("White Lightning", the nickname for the old wooden Swedish army ski). It is very possible that the modern plastics actually can deal well with +2 C; I was never able to get Tegnsäs to do so (but that might be my failure; is there a magic non-stick wax for slushy snow?)

My personal kit appears to go backwards in time rather than forwards; by the time I die I'll most likely will make Ötzi look like a hi-tech gear-head...

There is no cutting corners at -20, you will have to be extremely anal about clothing and your kit, but you can make a few short cuts in warmer weather.

I do agee that you need to know what you are doing at -20 C (which I pointed out). But once you do know that (and have the proper kit) then -25 C is easier than -5 C. IMNSHO.