Volunteering for local beavers / cubs / scouts?

[Paul_B]

Our son has been invested into the beavers having turned 6 years old. He's loving it and I loved cubs and scouts as a kid (no such thing as beavers back then). It's a good group and they've worked hard to fund the purchase and renovation of an old wwii shed. It's now a really safe, dry, modern looking scout hut (trying to become a centre or resource in the community for all to use).

Anyway my partner was talking to a leader within one level of the group (I think cubs but a key organiser, leader and volunteer). I came into the conversation just at the time they brought up the kayak someone dumped in the driveway. It was rubbish and no use but it started a conversation about wanting to do more outdoor stuff but my having the people signed off in the skills needed.

To cut a story short I'm about to be DBS checked as the first stage to becoming the group's own canoeing expert. I've only got BCU 3 star and the very old and replaced proficiency qualifications (equivalent to 4 star I've been told). Apparently that's enough to be assessed for competency through the scouts own training system.

My question is has anyone gone through this process? DBS looks easy but what do you need to be allowed to take out group onto water in kayaks or canoes? I've had 20 years on and off experience and am able to look after myself in grade 5 water (or used to be) and up to grade 3 I'm confident I can look after others but don't want to go that high n level paddling with scouts.

Anyway, what are the criteria for getting signed off for paddling? What are the levels or water you're allowed to take groups on? How many could be taken out if signed off? Would I be supported by leaders? Will scouts pay for any extra qualifications I might need?

Any advice? What do you get out of it personally? What gives you most pleasure volunteering?

 

[Wander]

On a purely pragmatic level, I would think one of the most important things is to ensure there's appropriate insurance in place.

 

[Duggie Bravo]

I hold a Scout Permit for both Kayaking and Canoeing.

The assessment checklist is here:
https://members.scouts.org.uk/docum...C120902 Assessment Checklist for Canoeing.doc

There are courses run through the Scouts to get instructor awards or your group may pay for them, mine did.

West Yorkshire run a course to get leaders through the scout permit scheme.

I can take 8 paddlers on to the water.

As a minimum I would expect you to need your FSRT, as well as the appropriate skills.

In terms of water essentially Sheltered and around 50m from a bank, but your assessor will discuss and agree any restrictions, which are there to protect you and the YP.

Happy to chat if you want.


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[Duggie Bravo]

Also this link will help:

https://members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/37/kayaking?moduleID=24&cat=26,407,351

and this one:

https://scouts.org.uk/media/1007009/AC120919-Kayaking-Jan-19.docx
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[Paul_B]

I'm in a very out of date situation. I didn't follow up with bcu instructor status I once thought of doing decade plus ago. I have been doing it since before the current bcu qualification system. Proficiency qualification doesn't exist and I doubt there's any equivalency nowadays. I got told by an si e2 bcu instructor (senior instructor Examiner level 2 in the old system) that proficiency is equivalent to bcu 4 star. I did drop down to get the 3 star you needed to become an instructor.

There's no obvious means to get assessed based on experience. I've never needed to get qualified. Being more into doing the actual paddling with my local clubs (member of 2 at one time). I helped organise trips from beginners to intermediate. Obviously rescues and support and teaching skills was part of that. I also assisted on courses but obviously with instructors present.

It looks like there's less scope for experiential route to scout permits in things like kayaking. You used to have that route through BCU. There used to be something where a senior instructor could recommend an experienced paddler to skip trainee instructor (became level 1 iirc) and become a full instructor without that stage (level 2 at the time). Obviously things have changed since I was a regular paddler and involved with clubs. In the end I left the clubs and just paddled with a core group of former club members who were all good paddlers too. Allowed for short notice trips on the spate becks at higher grades.

 

[Chalkflint]

Paul
Coincidentally my Sea Scout group is currently putting leaders through their Canoe/Kayak training.
As Duggie has already suggested if you are wanting to take scouts out on the water. Do your training etc through the scouts.
If you are not already a recognised scout leader they may insist that you become one as it makes things easier for them.
This would mean having to do a few of the basic leader training modules. Anyone officially involved in Scouts has to do the basic modules (I think its three) These can be done on line and would not take you that long as most is about general Scout rules and guidelines. If you have not got a recognised first aid certificate you will need one (the scouts can get you on one of their courses)
The Scout organisation is incredibly supportive and you will never be expected to do anything on your own as you have to have two adults minimum to run scouting activities one of which must be a leader.
Regards
Chalkflint

 

[Paul_B]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

The update is that I'm going through DBS checks as soon as I can meet up with the leader who deals with that. As well as that the beavers leader is kind of asking if I'd become a leader too. She's asking the question through my partner since she hasn't got my mobile number.

Another beavers parent said at the last meeting that I should sign up as a regular volunteer since I'm always there anyway.

Becoming a leader takes a lot of your time up I guess. It's a bigger commitment than a few weekends a year taking kids out on a lake or other flat water. Or into the countryside on a hike or whatever.

If I did that I'd be worried it would take over and I'd lose family time. I also suspect I'd over commit. Going on all the skills courses available and helping out across the group are ranges if needed. I knew I guy who did that in scouts. Lived and breathed it. We'd get if the river whitewater trip and he'd be straight on his phone replying to scout business.

 

[Stew]

Becoming a leader is no bad thing. Think of all those young folk you can help. The organisation needs people like you to give their time and if not, it all falls apart and those kids are left with what?

Something is better than nothing so just set some bounds at the start - become a leader but you'll only go once per month, etc. With thought, programmes can be planned around who is available.

 

[John Fenna]

I was a Scout Leader for 15 years and did a lot of my Coach Training through them - I ended up as a Level 4 Open Canoe Coach and was able to take pretty much as many as I was happy with on any water I felt they could cope with ....
As a Sea Scout Group we were pretty water based and decended the Wye every year - which meant Grade 2 water and our home waters were the Tivy - both tidal estuary and minor rapids in a gorge ... the Scouts got pretty good with regular trips
Things have changed these days so I cannot comment on current certifications needed but I will say "Do it" as it is very worth while - and great fun too!

 

[Chalkflint]

Paul
Scouting is always grateful for any volunteering and as such actively promotes the idea of several people helping run a scout pack rather than just a couple.They appreciate that people have other commitments and only so much free time
For example if you have one leader in charge who turns up every week and you get four volunteers to be occasional assistant leaders they only need to turn up once a month.
A good system we have used is where the parents are told that on a certain week they are helping out organising a game or an activity. (Nothing too complicated). Each parent just helping out a bit once a term can make a massive difference.
As you mentioned there are incredibly devoted people who live and breathe scouting. I am definitely not one of those. I only volunteered as a leader because my child is a scout and the pack would have closed due to no leaders.
If you just want to help with the water activities make that very clear from the start and see what they say.
Chalkflint

 

[mousey]

... I only volunteered as a leader because my child is a scout and the pack would have closed due to no leaders....

I'm in exactly the same boat, but with cubs. That was five years ago now, and my third child is just about to pass up to scouts. I try to get out with the scouts on their camps too as it's just some outdoor time for me as much as anything else.

Yes it is a commitment, yes you won't want to do it all the time, yes some kids are difficult [some don't want to be there and the parents view it as a child minding service - but that's not what it is, and in our group they are told quite sharply they have to want to be there!], but drag yourself out and you'll most likely enjoy it, and may get contacts for other outdoorsy folks, some who can be very knowledgeable.

 

[Stew]

I think for me, being a young person in Scouting changed my life.

Help change someone else's.

 

[Paul_B]

Our son has just joined beavers. They're at capacity with one leader and a scout who helps out every week (she's school age and has been through the stages of scouting). Apparently 24 or 25 per leader. A school mate of our son is talking about joining but I think it's full.

Personally I think my partner would be better helping at beavers. It seems beavers and in my day cubs (no beavers back then) tend to have female leaders. Then male leaders in scouts. No reason for that but it's a hang up from the past (if that's too political in sorry).

 

[Paul_B]

I think for me, being a young person in Scouting changed my life.

Help change someone else's.

The scouts I was in as a kid wasn't very good. That was a long time ago and a totally different organisation IMHO.

Despite that I do know what you mean. I've been in a bit of a dark space and low confidence throughout school years and university. Then last two years at uni I got into hillwalking more and winter hillwalking. Then after into kayaking. I got good at it too doing grade 5 rapids and steep creeks too. I developed confidence and became a happier person.

Since then I got into climbing trad and other hill stuff. A fear of heights was controlled that way which gave even more confidence.

A masters degree and representing university in canoe polo too.

All in all outdoor sports of the more adventurous turned me around. If I can give to kids what that gave to me it's worth my time and then some.

 

[Winnet]

Our son has just joined beavers. They're at capacity with one leader and a scout who helps out every week (she's school age and has been through the stages of scouting). Apparently 24 or 25 per leader. A school mate of our son is talking about joining but I think it's full.

Personally I think my partner would be better helping at beavers. It seems beavers and in my day cubs (no beavers back then) tend to have female leaders. Then male leaders in scouts. No reason for that but it's a hang up from the past (if that's too political in sorry).

They would have to watch their numbers, Beaver to leader ratio is 6 kids to 1 leader and the Young Leader doesn't count as an adult. Scout rules also state there should be a minimum of 2 adults in case something happens.

Being a leader I know that we are continually looking for adult helpers.

G

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[mousey]

I've been told its 8 for indoor activities and 6 for outdoor [this is for cubs, I believe the numbers change for beavers and scouts...]

@Winnet are you involved with a group in Aberdeen or surrounding areas?

 

[Winnet]

6 was off the top of my head and the numbers do change from section to section throughout. The bit that catches people out as well is the minimum of 2 adults and that the Young Leaders don't class as an adult for ratios.

I help out at scouts and Explorers in Aberdeen for my sins.

G

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[Paul_B]

At what age do young leaders class as adults for the ratios?

At our beavers there's only one leader and the younger scout who's possibly the level above scout (in guessing anywhere between 16 and 18 yo). There's always parents there. A parent volunteer post for each section. Mind you my partner never leaves our 6 yo anywhere without being there or just outside the door. Mamma bear ready to jump in to defend JUNIOR! Despite him being able to look after himself even against older kids. He often plays footie with the older kids at school through invitation because he holds his own.

I guess the parents are making the ratios up. Whether that's formal or informal.

The leader who doesn't do the evenings with beavers said it's one uniformed and trained leader with up to 24 beavers although she did say there were always volunteers from the parents.

Anyone get the mickey take for being a scout leader? Years ago people who had never had dealings with the organisation used to think leaders must be a bit weird. Either dodgy or army wannabes. Just curious.

 

[Chalkflint]

Paul
This is straight from the scouts Policy, Organisation Rules (POR) Chapter 3.7
Beavers Maximum recommended colony size 24 beavers (can be increased with permission).
Other than two adults being present there is no minimum ratio of adults to Beaver Scouts set for regular indoor Colony meetings, but for all meetings and activities Leaders should assess the risk and arrange for sufficient adults (aged 18 or over) to ensure a safe environment for the operation of the Colony, which may vary depending on the programme. The recommended minimum ratio both for outdoor activities held away from the usual meeting place and for nights away experiences is 1 adult to 6 Beaver Scouts plus the leader in charge. However, as a minimum, at least two adults must be present overnight. Only in the event of an emergency should an adult be alone overnight with young people on a nights away experience. i. For all Scouting activities a risk assessment should be carried out as stated in Rule 9.4. This risk assessment cannot override the minimum requirements stated in 3.7(e) and 3.7(h) or those required by the activity rules in POR chapter 9.

As an additional point. I interpret that to mean:- Any young helper under 18 years is classified as a minor so they dont help with adult to beaver ratios and just add to the number of minors needing supervision. Also those two adults always present one of those should be a leader.
Chalkflint

 

[Winnet]

Agreed, you only become an adult in Scouting eyes at the age of 18.

An the thought of 24 beavers in one room sends shivers down my spine.....

Mind you, Explorers can be nearly as bad.

G

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