Upside down fire lay
- Thread starter Chris G
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This might be what Chris has found ...
http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/02/02/how-to-build-an-upside-down-fire/
Thanks - I'd like give it a go - not sure how it would work in open as opposed to in a purpose built fireplace, althought there are some suggestions about building a teepee etc to protect it from wind in the inital stages
Since the smaller wood, and the initial fire, is on top, and the heat is for the most part above the layer of wood just below, it will be much longer igniting than if it was above. Each layer down should contain logs that are of a larger diameter than the layer immediately above.
This type of fire accomplishes two things. Firstly, any given amount of wood will burn much slower than a conventional fire.
secondly, once it is set up and lighted, you are finished. You do not have to add more wood. If built properly and with enough wood (of the right kind) it will last through the night.
Another nice feature about this kind of fire lay, is that it doesn't matter if the the ground is damp or wet, because the fire is being built above the ground. Even if the first course of logs pick up dampness from the ground, they will most likely be dried out by the time they are required to ignite and burn.
Don't be concerned about it working in the open. That's where they were developed.
This type of fire accomplishes two things. Firstly, any given amount of wood will burn much slower than a conventional fire.
secondly, once it is set up and lighted, you are finished. You do not have to add more wood. If built properly and with enough wood (of the right kind) it will last through the night.
Another nice feature about this kind of fire lay, is that it doesn't matter if the the ground is damp or wet, because the fire is being built above the ground. Even if the first course of logs pick up dampness from the ground, they will most likely be dried out by the time they are required to ignite and burn.
Don't be concerned about it working in the open. That's where they were developed.
Shewie, that's one of them. The other one was this one; Sean the Silver Fox vid which apparently is in response to this one; Hedgehog vid.
Different isn't it!
Chris
Different isn't it!
Chris
Cracking find Chris. Thanks for sharing.
I cant wait to try that out, when its described it seems so simple and logical how come that its never been used before. Looks a great cooking fire.
I cant wait to try that out, when its described it seems so simple and logical how come that its never been used before. Looks a great cooking fire.
The upside-down fire lay is often called the "council fire." here in the U.S. They are, I understand, built mainly by Scouts who want a large fire for a large gathering of people and they want plenty of light.
Possibly, they were built by Native Americans for dance celebrations and ceremonies. However, Scouts frequently use Indian names for many things and "council fire" may very well be one of those cases of "borrowing" Indian terminology.
Of course, they can be scaled to whatever dimensions you want. It will take some experimentation with log size and type to "get it right" but eventually you are going to come up with something very satisfactory.
They look a little "over the top" at first, but when you realize that you are not going to add anymore wood, they aren't consuming any more fuel than any other fire. Still, might take some explaining to someone not familiar with them.
It is not abundantly clear in the video, but where the main body of wood is laid up "log cabin" style, the kindling on top is generally laid up in the "teepee" style.
Possibly, they were built by Native Americans for dance celebrations and ceremonies. However, Scouts frequently use Indian names for many things and "council fire" may very well be one of those cases of "borrowing" Indian terminology.
Of course, they can be scaled to whatever dimensions you want. It will take some experimentation with log size and type to "get it right" but eventually you are going to come up with something very satisfactory.
They look a little "over the top" at first, but when you realize that you are not going to add anymore wood, they aren't consuming any more fuel than any other fire. Still, might take some explaining to someone not familiar with them.
It is not abundantly clear in the video, but where the main body of wood is laid up "log cabin" style, the kindling on top is generally laid up in the "teepee" style.
The only problem you might encounter, in my experience is that you don't build a big enough "teepee" fire on top to ignite the wood below. Also, particularly, if the 1st layer of wood under the "teepee" fire is too large in diameter (particularly if not split) the fire might go out. If the 1st and 2nd layers ignite there will most likely be no problem with the subsequent layers, as the fire works its way down the wood stack.
Looks like quite a good type of fire for lasting through the night.
I think I'll try this next time I'm out.
I think I'll try this next time I'm out.
Had a go this morning - worked reasonably well- I think I made the mistake of using all dead wood that was relatively small (I am a beginner) so it didn't burn for long - about 45 - 60 minutes - but it was all I had from the garden (yes I know - poor workman etc).
Advantage is that you can assemble the fire at night, store it under a tarp and move it to where you want it in the morning and you are ready to go first thing - I will definitely give it another go with say:
a bigger base - 12"+ square
thicker wood on base 2" - 3" and
not all dead.
I also need to build a better pyramid over lots more tinder
Advantage is that you can assemble the fire at night, store it under a tarp and move it to where you want it in the morning and you are ready to go first thing - I will definitely give it another go with say:
a bigger base - 12"+ square
thicker wood on base 2" - 3" and
not all dead.
I also need to build a better pyramid over lots more tinder
even done badly it should give enough embers to cook with properly if you start it when you arrive and set up camp while its burning down.
I have tried to build fires similar to this in the past, they are great if all the wood you have is dead and all the smaller wood you have is dry.
Considering the weather conditions we frequently encounter, one of the benefits of a traditional fire lay (with larger wood on top) is that the heat from the fire below will dry out the fuel placed on top.
Until you have a well established heart to your fire with some decent embers, I don't think it works as well with the upsidedown fire lay.
I tend to build a hybrid between the two:
I build a good base of larger logs in the 'log cabin style' as below, then on top of this continue with 2 / 3 sides building 'log cabin walls'. Then in between the walls I construct a more traditional fire lay with increasing sizes of wood to get the fire going.
This way I can get a good fire established, even with fuel which is a bit damp, it has an integral wind shield of sorts and has fuel to perpetuate the fire as it burns down.
Considering the weather conditions we frequently encounter, one of the benefits of a traditional fire lay (with larger wood on top) is that the heat from the fire below will dry out the fuel placed on top.
Until you have a well established heart to your fire with some decent embers, I don't think it works as well with the upsidedown fire lay.
I tend to build a hybrid between the two:
I build a good base of larger logs in the 'log cabin style' as below, then on top of this continue with 2 / 3 sides building 'log cabin walls'. Then in between the walls I construct a more traditional fire lay with increasing sizes of wood to get the fire going.
This way I can get a good fire established, even with fuel which is a bit damp, it has an integral wind shield of sorts and has fuel to perpetuate the fire as it burns down.
Here in the UK, the fire will work if you open up the gaps between the logs a bit more and if you intersperse some of the increasing sized logs with thinner wood.
The gaps allow embers to drop down, heating and drying the damp wood as they go and the extra kindling in-between helps to get it going.
The gaps allow embers to drop down, heating and drying the damp wood as they go and the extra kindling in-between helps to get it going.
"getting an hour out of a fire without faffing with it is pretty good especially if it was only that size"
Thanks - good to hear that - maybe I was expecting too much - will be at Rough Close at the weekend and hope to have another go - maybe using Bushscout 1's model - probably on the LIDL BBQ tripod stand so as to keep the fire off the ground (if I can get it in the car!)
Thanks - good to hear that - maybe I was expecting too much - will be at Rough Close at the weekend and hope to have another go - maybe using Bushscout 1's model - probably on the LIDL BBQ tripod stand so as to keep the fire off the ground (if I can get it in the car!)
Actually, these were intended to last more or less almost all night. At the very least you should have some hot coals remaining in the morning.
The key to success is that the wood (on bottom) must be quite large and it must be dry or very nearly so. Cobweb is right in that it is a good idea to open the interspaces up a bit over what you might ordinarily do.
To work as intended, they require a great deal of wood. I suspect, much more than you experimented with. In fact, the require so much wood, and large wood that I rarely build one, except at my farm, where I have a fire ring down by the river and plenty of wood already sawn and split at the house to bring down.
These are not too well suited to the type of fire, where you wander around in the woods and find some wood. Not to say that wont work, but it will be difficult.
In a situation where you have an entire tree that has been cut down for whatever reason, this is ideal. Here you will have all the assorted sizes of wood in the trunk and limbs to get just what you need and in the amount that you need.
Keep up the experimenting, and good luck.
The key to success is that the wood (on bottom) must be quite large and it must be dry or very nearly so. Cobweb is right in that it is a good idea to open the interspaces up a bit over what you might ordinarily do.
To work as intended, they require a great deal of wood. I suspect, much more than you experimented with. In fact, the require so much wood, and large wood that I rarely build one, except at my farm, where I have a fire ring down by the river and plenty of wood already sawn and split at the house to bring down.
These are not too well suited to the type of fire, where you wander around in the woods and find some wood. Not to say that wont work, but it will be difficult.
In a situation where you have an entire tree that has been cut down for whatever reason, this is ideal. Here you will have all the assorted sizes of wood in the trunk and limbs to get just what you need and in the amount that you need.
Keep up the experimenting, and good luck.
yes - I think Chinkapin is probably right - it was an overall inadequate volume of wood that was probably the problem - but will still be giving it some more tries - just to see how it goes
